How does one become a Theistic Evolutionist?

[sfs]

Please show me an article as a good example. I have access to e-journal database. Thanks.

I've probably shown you this before, but here is one set of genetic evolution for common descent that I put together several years ago. It is far from the strongest evidence available, but it uses the kind of data I work with routinely. I have pointed the post out to creationists on a number of occasions, but no one has yet offered a creationist explanation for the patterns I describe.

 

[juvenissun]

I've probably shown you this before, but here is one set of genetic evolution for common descent that I put together several years ago. It is far from the strongest evidence available, but it uses the kind of data I work with routinely. I have pointed the post out to creationists on a number of occasions, but no one has yet offered a creationist explanation for the patterns I describe.

Thanks. I will find time to study it.

 

[juvenissun]

You claim there is a conflict where there is none. That makes you wrong.



Actually, Juvenissun, God is real whether or not I have faith in Him... Perhaps you have a difficult task of "making" God real through faith, but I find it unnecessary... faith is quite simple.

So you are wrong again.



Indeed, it takes very little effort to accept what the evidence plainly shows.

Big mistake and it could be dangerous.

The reality of God to you is proportional to the strength of your faith. That is why we NEED to strengthen our faith.

The way to strengthen our faith to God is very similar to one which strengthens the faith to evolution. One needs to study it and to experience it. The problem is that when one studies and experiences more about evolution, the weaker the faith becomes.

 

[Willtor]

Big mistake and it could be dangerous.

The reality of God to you is proportional to the strength of your faith. That is why we NEED to strengthen our faith.

Are you arguing that God is less real if you don't believe in Him? I don't think that's what's generally meant by God being a "personal" god.

The way to strengthen our faith to God is very similar to one which strengthens the faith to evolution. One needs to study it and to experience it. The problem is that when one studies and experiences more about evolution, the weaker the faith becomes.

This isn't true at all. You think we all have such weak faith but it just isn't so.

 

[The Lady Kate]

Big mistake and it could be dangerous.

The reality of God to you is proportional to the strength of your faith. That is why we NEED to strengthen our faith.

Sorry, Juvenessum, but the reality is that either God is real or He is not. I choose to believe that He is real... but no faith, no matter how strong, can alter reality.

The way to strengthen our faith to God is very similar to one which strengthens the faith to evolution.

Examination of phyisical evidence? you have physical evidence for God?

One needs to study it and to experience it.

I've studied and experienced God... I've studied evolutionary theory and experienced it as much as a person can "experience" a theory.

The problem is that when one studies and experiences more about evolution, the weaker the faith becomes.

You realize, of course, that this is utter tripe, right? My faith in God exists completely independently of whether or not I choose to accept scientific evidence.

Once again, juvenessum, you're proclaiming what must be in the faces of people whose very existence proves you wrong.

Do you ever get tired of this?

 

[The Lady Kate]

This isn't true at all. You think we all have such weak faith but it just isn't so.

I've noticed that many such people use themselves as yardsticks for others... how stong is juvenessum's faith if he thinks evolution will sabotage it?

 

[Willtor]

I've noticed that many such people use themselves as yardsticks for others... how stong is juvenessum's faith if he thinks evolution will sabotage it?

It's troubling. I think many churches are teaching people to have faith in their interpretations of Scripture rather than Christ.

 

[The Lady Kate]

It's troubling. I think many churches are teaching people to have faith in their interpretations of Scripture rather than Christ.

Well, that's a recipe for all sorts of unpleasantness.

 

[crawfish]

The way to strengthen our faith to God is very similar to one which strengthens the faith to evolution. One needs to study it and to experience it. The problem is that when one studies and experiences more about evolution, the weaker the faith becomes.

I'm with Willtor that this just isn't true. What it does seem to indicate is how some creationists seem to have faith in the wrong things.

 

[LightSeaker]

Big mistake and it could be dangerous.

The reality of God to you is proportional to the strength of your faith. That is why we NEED to strengthen our faith.

The way to strengthen our faith to God is very similar to one which strengthens the faith to evolution. One needs to study it and to experience it. The problem is that when one studies and experiences more about evolution, the weaker the faith becomes.

For myself anyway, what you saying just is not true. In fact, just the opposite has happened. There is an infinite amount of grace found in ones Love of Jesus Christ, that’s whom it’s all about you know.

It’s also wonderful to see the blessings of how God creates infinite possibilities through the windows we call evolution and geology. God is so wonderful in His infinite possibilities. I see no room for a weakened faith or having less Love of Jesus Christ in my watching God Create through the window of evolution and geology.


.

 

[Assyrian]

Big mistake and it could be dangerous.

The reality of God to you is proportional to the strength of your faith. That is why we NEED to strengthen our faith.

The way to strengthen our faith to God is very similar to one which strengthens the faith to evolution. One needs to study it and to experience it. The problem is that when one studies and experiences more about evolution, the weaker the faith becomes.

No, the reality of God is.

Exodus 3:14 God said to Moses, "I AM WHO I AM." And he said, "Say this to the people of Israel, 'I AM has sent me to you.'"

You need to be careful your language is sliding into relativism that says your God is real to you because you have faith and Dawkins atheism is real to him. God does not depend on our faith to be real.

 

[The Lady Kate]

You need to be careful your language is sliding into relativism that says your God is real to you because you have faith and Dawkins atheism is real to him. God does not depend on our faith to be real.

Or worse, the language is sliding into vanity, thinking God needs his belief to prop Him up.

 

[Assyrian]

Reminds me of the idea you get in Fritz Leiber fantasy stories of Fafhrd and the Gray Mouser, or in Pratchett novels, that gods need people to believe in them and when they lose their last worshipper, then *pop* they cease to exist. Can't be what Juv really means, but the language sounds like that.

 

[LightSeaker]

I'm with Willtor that this just isn't true. What it does seem to indicate is how some creationists seem to have faith in the wrong things.

Exactly!!

.

 

[juvenissun]

No, the reality of God is.

Exodus 3:14 God said to Moses, "I AM WHO I AM." And he said, "Say this to the people of Israel, 'I AM has sent me to you.'"

You need to be careful your language is sliding into relativism that says your God is real to you because you have faith and Dawkins atheism is real to him. God does not depend on our faith to be real.

Yes and No. You know what I mean.

 

[juvenissun]

Reminds me of the idea you get in Fritz Leiber fantasy stories of Fafhrd and the Gray Mouser, or in Pratchett novels, that gods need people to believe in them and when they lose their last worshipper, then *pop* they cease to exist. Can't be what Juv really means, but the language sounds like that.

Human communication is hard. That is why the Bible says that an "understanding" person is highly blessed.

I still think what I said is pretty clear and accurate:

The reality of God to you is proportional to the strength of your faith

And, I still think the faith to evolution will erode your faith to God.

 

[Assyrian]

Evolution is not a faith, no more than heliocentrism, which shocked the faith of the Christian world brought up on the literal interpretation of all the geocentric passages. But evolution is simply the best scientific explanation we have for the facts we observe, just like heliocentrism. We had this discussion here before and the people whose faith is shaken the most are children taught YEC in Sunday School who learn what science really says when they get to college, especially if they have been taught 'if evilution is true then the bible is a lie'. The problem is not evolution which is simply the study of the world God created, it is the church still teaching an interpretation that has been shown to be wrong. Astronomy would shake kids faith too if their churches insisted on teaching them 'biblical geocentrism'. When people find out what they have been taught as biblical truth is wrong it shakes their faith in everything the bible says.

 

[juvenissun]

Evolution IS a faith. In particular, when it is used to convince people about human origin. Mounting amount of "evidences" in the study of evolution is hugh enough to frighten most people in churches and to convince students below the level of Ph.D. (that is one of the reason that most churches close an eye to it). But for people who study evolution, they know it has to take a faith to believe in it.

Paleontology can not cheat me any more. What I am struggling now is the genetics. I really wish there will be more YEC geneticists who can coach the argument.

 

[LightSeaker]

And, I still think the faith to evolution will erode your faith to God.

Evolution is science. It provides a window into how God Creates. It's not religion to have faith in like one has faith with God.

As I watch this thread unfold and seeing how you keep coming back to this, I'm beginning to suspect that you see your own faith in Jesus Christ as a bit rocky. I can't think of any other reason why one would fear evolution effecting ones faith as you do?

Than I'm sitting here thinking and wonder if it's faith that comes in the form we call Christianity that your all concerned about, and that your concerns about losing ones faith has nothing to do with faith in God at all.

.

 

[The Lady Kate]

Yes and No. You know what I mean.

Yes we do... which is why we want to correct you.