How does one become a saint?

[Gxg (G²)]

The Saints are all believers, not just the ones named in the Canon; both those living, and those who have passed from this world into eternal life. Those who are Canonized are no better than the rest of us believers, but they are recognized by the Church for the examples that they have set for all believers. Our Lutheran Church retains many of the commemorations of both the RCC and EO Churches; plus there are additional "heros of the faith" commemorated that neither the RCC nor the EO do. These saints, heros of the faith, evangelists, theologians, hymnographers, martyrs, fathers and doctors of the Church are part of the "cloud of witnesses" that the Bible reminds us of.

Precisely...

 

[KNOWLEDGE BOMB]

So then we will see if the bible teaches soul sleep or not...


If God says all believers are saints then why does the catholic church then go and make their own group outside of Gods discription? The Vatican teaches to become a saint you have to be appointed by the Vatican and do 2 miracles - this isn't anywhere in the bible and Never spoken by God.....

 

[KNOWLEDGE BOMB]

yes
and yes

So you say at time of pauls writing the gospel king David was in Heaven
and you say that Paul is in heaven now.....


Let's see what the word says about that....

1. Paul says in 2thes 1:7 for all believers to rest with them till Jesus is revealed from heaven.... Since Jesus has not been revealed from heaven Paul cannot be with Christ..... He still waits

2thess is about the gathering together when Christ comes commonly called the rapture
1:10 2:1-3

Paul clearly teaches that he and those with him ask us to wait with them till Christ return.....

Atleast that's what Paul says

I'll have to get out my bible to show that king David is also on earth.

Then I'll do a whole OP on what you call soul sleep.... Or lack there of

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

Not quite right. The Saints are all believers, not just the ones named in the Canon; both those living, and those who have passed from this world into eternal life. Those who are Canonized are no better than the rest of us believers, but they are recognized by the Church for the examples that they have set for all believers. Our Lutheran Church retains many of the commemorations of both the RCC and EO Churches; plus there are additional "heros of the faith" commemorated that neither the RCC nor the EO do. These saints, heros of the faith, evangelists, theologians, hymnographers, martyrs, fathers and doctors of the Church are part of the "cloud of witnesses" that the Bible reminds us of.

So then we will see if the bible teaches soul sleep or not...


If God says all believers are saints then why does the catholic church then go and make their own group outside of Gods discription? The Vatican teaches to become a saint you have to be appointed by the Vatican and do 2 miracles - this isn't anywhere in the bible and Never spoken by God.....

Here's the deal, the Vatican uses the same definition that I gave above... however, they and us recognize special achievements by some of the saints and use them as examples of Christian dedication, love and sacrifice for all the rest of us Saints still walking on the earth. The 2 miracle rule was not always in place, it is now, and they do use it as a qualifier. They have been given the authority to loose and bind, and this is one rule that they have bound. We Lutherans do not use that rule.

While the Bible does not use the 2 miracle rule, it does remember some saints, commemorates them, and tells their stories as examples for us Christians; we have St. Steven (first Christian Martyr) St. John the Baptist and all of the Apostles, as well as many other believers, converts and servants of the word are also mentioned.

The Church continues this tradition which was begun in the Bible.

I'm sure that you are not going to like this explanation, but it's the way it is. As a Saint, it is a comfort to me that I am in the company of the "cloud of witnesses" who have gone before me! With them, I am a part of the "invisible Church", the "Communion of the Saints", the Church Triumphant, the "one Holy catholic and Apostolic Church which we confess in the Creed.

If you believe in Christ, you are one of these saints; if you deny that, then may God be merciful.

 

[Rhamiel]

So then we will see if the bible teaches soul sleep or not...


If God says all believers are saints then why does the catholic church then go and make their own group outside of Gods discription? The Vatican teaches to become a saint you have to be appointed by the Vatican and do 2 miracles - this isn't anywhere in the bible and Never spoken by God.....

there are several things that you are mistaken about

1 everyone in heaven is a saint
2 so a lot more saints in heaven then just the Canonized Saints
3 there is no requirement of 2 miracles to be named a saint, though this is a common practice to wait until that to name someone a saint

 

[KNOWLEDGE BOMB]

Just something I ran across to show All rise together to meet Christ

Hebrews 11:39-40

Talking of those before Christ who died without recieving the promise
God having provided some better thing for us (Jesus)

That THEY (those who died before Christ) will not be made perfect without all the brides of Christ....

To be made perfect is to rise to meet Christ in the air in our uncorruptable bodies....

Ofcourse this cuts off purgatory I guess....

 

[KNOWLEDGE BOMB]

Here's the deal, the Vatican uses the same definition that I gave above... however, they and us recognize special achievements by some of the saints.


KNOWLEDGE BOMB replies:


Well since the bible doesn't teach men appointed saints in ANY form - then this would be in vain outside the word of God.


So useless unless your catholic - but still outside the word so we discount such things!

 

[KNOWLEDGE BOMB]

there are several things that you are mistaken about

1 everyone in heaven is a saint
2 so a lot more saints in heaven then just the Canonized Saints
3 there is no requirement of 2 miracles to be named a saint, though this is a common practice to wait until that to name someone a saint

Is catholic.org reliable? Cause they teach that the church teaching on becomeing a saint isn't as you say - in fact vaican.va also on subject of whose a saint gives the same thing - nothing to do with anyone outside the appointed church saints..... You may say your a saint or the RCC considers you a saint but I sure haven't found anywhere on either site that say becoming a saint is anything but church appointed so I have to disreguard you answer at this time

 

[KNOWLEDGE BOMB]

The 2 miracle rule was not always in place, it is now, and they do use it as a qualifier. They have been given the authority to loose and bind, and this is one rule that they have bound


KNOWLEDGE BOMB replies:


The RCC CANNOT BIND something that is contrary to the word of God!

The words clear all are saints upon belief in christ and the RCC says otherwise

now I find it's because they binded another teaching than Gods - now I see

 

[Gxg (G²)]

Here's the deal, the Vatican uses the same definition that I gave above... however, they and us recognize special achievements by some of the saints and use them as examples of Christian dedication, love and sacrifice for all the rest of us Saints still walking on the earth. The 2 miracle rule was not always in place, it is now, and they do use it as a qualifier. They have been given the authority to loose and bind, and this is one rule that they have bound. We Lutherans do not use that rule.

While the Bible does not use the 2 miracle rule, it does remember some saints, commemorates them, and tells their stories as examples for us Christians; we have St. Steven (first Christian Martyr) St. John the Baptist and all of the Apostles, as well as many other believers, converts and servants of the word are also mentioned.

The Church continues this tradition which was begun in the Bible.

I'm sure that you are not going to like this explanation, but it's the way it is. As a Saint, it is a comfort to me that I am in the company of the "cloud of witnesses" who have gone before me! With them, I am a part of the "invisible Church", the "Communion of the Saints", the Church Triumphant, the "one Holy catholic and Apostolic Church which we confess in the Creed.

If you believe in Christ, you are one of these saints; if you deny that, then may God be merciful.

Thanks for the detailed response, as it was appreciated

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

Here's the deal, the Vatican uses the same definition that I gave above... however, they and us recognize special achievements by some of the saints.


KNOWLEDGE BOMB replies:


Well since the bible doesn't teach men appointed saints in ANY form - then this would be in vain outside the word of God.


So useless unless your catholic - but still outside the word so we discount such things!

Is catholic.org reliable? Cause they teach that the church teaching on becomeing a saint isn't as you say - in fact vaican.va also on subject of whose a saint gives the same thing - nothing to do with anyone outside the appointed church saints..... You may say your a saint or the RCC considers you a saint but I sure haven't found anywhere on either site that say becoming a saint is anything but church appointed so I have to disreguard you answer at this time

No, here's the deal: You, self proclaimed expert on Catholicity, with knowledge exceeding even that of the Church Catholic; who out pontificates even the Pope himself; should take a moment and pull your head out of where ever it is:

You have no desire to do research, are maybe are incapable of doing so; here's what I found, looking in one official book, sitting on my desk.

I should charge for research; it seems so few are capable of doing it for themselves.

In part one, paragraph 5. The Communion of Saints, 946 in the Catechism of the Catholic Church they state, as we do in our confessions: "What is the Church if not the assembly of all the saints?"

If we go back a couple pages to Paragraph 3, II The Church Is Holy; 823: ...The Church, then, is "the holy People of God," and her members are called "saints".

 

[Gxg (G²)]

In part one, paragraph 5. The Communion of Saints, 946 in the Catechism of the Catholic Church they state, as we do in our confessions: "What is the Church if not the assembly of all the saints?"

If we go back a couple pages to Paragraph 3, II The Church Is Holy; 823: ...The Church, then, is "the holy People of God," and her members are called "saints".

Hard to ignore...

 

[Gxg (G²)]

The title of Saint or calling one a Doctor of Father of the Church is a way of respectfully noting that individual's Christian witness, contribution, and example to the Church catholic (small C intentional). Scripture notes the "Cloud of witnesses"; those of us who commemorate/venerate these heroes of the faith are noting this "Cloud" as Scripture does.

At least we know that the concept of saint is something that's not given lightly. Imagine if we had saint titles given to everyone - no matter how cool it'd be for some:

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