How Does Jesus Save?

[RobertPate]

I am just learning, but I am under strong influence that if what you said
was the truth, without any conditions placed upon it by the living God
Jesus would never have said this to anyone who believed in His name to
cast out devils and do many wonderful works in His name.
"Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord,
shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he
that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord,
have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy
name have cast out devils? and in thy name done
many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them,
I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."

I am with Jesus on this one.

Note that Jesus said you have to do the will of His Father.

That goes beyond just believing.

It takes DOING IT.

The will of the Father is that you trust in his Son Jesus Christ for your salvation.

 

[RobertPate]

I say, the will of God is that you stop committing all sin.
And that is the salvation of Jesus Christ.

Now who do you think God is going to side with?

Nope. As long as you are here on this earth in your Adamic body you will sin. The apostle Paul struggled with sin because he was a sinner, Romans 7:17. Accept the fact that you are a sinner. The apostle John said, "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us" 1 John 1:8. Try not to sin, because there are consequences to sin. Sometimes life changing.

The good news of the Gospel is that Jesus Christ has dealt with our sins. When Jesus died on the cross we died with him, Romans 6:3. When Jesus arose from the dead, we arose with him, Romans 6:5. Our old life of sin and failure has been put to death in Jesus Christ, We are now new creations in Jesus Christ, 2 Corinthians 5:17. This is all very spiritual. Christianity is spiritual.

 

[d taylor]

I am just learning, but I am under strong influence that if what you said
was the truth, without any conditions placed upon it by the living God
Jesus would never have said this to anyone who believed in His name to
cast out devils and do many wonderful works in His name.
"Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord,
shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he
that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord,
have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy
name have cast out devils? and in thy name done
many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them,
I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."

I am with Jesus on this one.

Note that Jesus said you have to do the will of His Father.

That goes beyond just believing.

It takes DOING IT.

The people in the verse you use from Matthew plainly states that Jesus never knew them. That means that these people never believed. So you saying they were believers is absolutely wrong.

 

[BNR32FAN]

I am just learning but it is my understanding that
iniquity is all sin.

Is my understanding incorrect?

The word inequity means lawlessness.

 

[BNR32FAN]

I am learning, please explain,
how you account for this verse from the bible
as applied to what you believe?

Matthew 7:23
And then will I profess unto them,
I never knew you: depart from me,
ye that work iniquity.

I don’t know if you read the link that David posted or not but if you did I would like to point out a very HUGE mistake they make in their commentary. They never once mentioned Jesus’ explanation of verses 21-23. He wasn’t finished with what He was saying at verse 23. Notice verse 24 begins with the word “Therefore” indicating that what follows is in reference to what He said in verses 21-23. Let’s read the message in its entirety and see if Jesus was talking about obedience to God.

““Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness.’ “Therefore everyone who hears these words of Mine and acts on them, may be compared to a wise man who built his house on the rock. And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and slammed against that house; and yet it did not fall, for it had been founded on the rock. Everyone who hears these words of Mine and does not act on them, will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand. The rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and slammed against that house; and it fell and great was its fall.””
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭7‬:‭21‬-‭27‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

Now compare this to what the commentary in the link David provided. Here’s a quote from David’s commentary.

One popular view today suggests that by the expression “the will of My Father” Jesus meant a life characterized by obedience to all that the Father has commanded. Thus those who do the will of the Father would be people who live godly, holy lives.

There are several problems with this interpretation. First, God is perfect and one cannot enter His kingdom without becoming absolutely perfect (Isa. 64:6; Gal. 3:6-14; Heb. 10:1-18; James 2:10). Second, one cannot be said to have done the will of the Father unless he does it completely, 100%. To violate even just one of God’s commands is to break them all (James 2:10). Third, even if these first two objections were not valid, this view leads to the unbiblical conclusion that no one can ever be sure that he is saved until he dies or is raptured. No one could ever know if he had obeyed enough. Yet the Scriptures are clear that the apostles knew with absolute certainty that they were saved and they wanted their readers to know this as well (Luke 10:20; John 13:10; Rom. 8:31-39; 2 Pet. 1:1; 1 John 2:12-14, 25; 5:13).

This explains why they chose to omit verses 24-27 because it destroys their theology. They take one tiny piece of Jesus’ words then omit the explanation He provided in His following statements and conjure up a doctrine that is contrary to the message in it’s entirety. This is why commentaries are useless. You can find a commentary for every single heresy that ever existed. That’s why the only commentaries I recommend are from the first 3 centuries of Christianity with the exception of writings from Origen or commentaries from the Eastern Orthodox Church.

The commentary also creates its own false statements like for example this statement here.

Second, one cannot be said to have done the will of the Father unless he does it completely, 100%. To violate even just one of God’s commands is to break them all (James 2:10)

They create this false narrative then use it to their advantage to support their false doctrine. A person can do the will of God without doing it 100% and still be 100% perfect. Doing the will of God means doing things that God desires. When you believe the gospel your doing the will of God. When you give to those in need your doing the will of God. When you obey His commandments your doing the will of God. When you sin you are not doing the will of God, but when you repent of your sin you are again doing the will of God and once you repent and acknowledge your mistake you are forgiven and made 100% perfect again because of Christ’s atonement. The determining factor for salvation is not a matter of sin it’s a matter of repentance. Everyone has sinned but what separates those who are saved from those who are condemned is repentance. Repentance is the act of turning away from sin and turning towards God. This is why repentance is the determining factor for salvation. Because all have sinned and only those who repent will be saved it makes repentance the determining factor for salvation. Believing is just the beginning but it isn’t the determining factor because the Bible specifically says that some believe for a while yet fall away. Those that fall away will not be saved unless they repent and return to belief. Here’s a few examples of this from scripture.

“But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive, were grafted in among them and became partaker with them of the rich root of the olive tree, do not be arrogant toward the branches; but if you are arrogant, remember that it is not you who supports the root, but the root supports you. You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.” Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear; for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either. Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off. And they also, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭11‬:‭17‬-‭23‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

The grafting in refers to being grafted into God’s covenant. Those who break the covenant will be cut off but if they repent and return to belief they will be grafted back into the covenant again. David believes that if someone doesn’t continue to believe then they never actually believed in the first place but that doesn’t line up with scripture. False professors are never grafted into God’s covenant. They might be able to fool us here on earth but can they fool God? Will God graft false professors into His covenant? No because they don’t actually believe and He knows it. David believes in eternal security which unfortunately is a very popular belief in America, I once believed in it to, but thru studying God’s word I’ve come to understand that it is not biblical. Eternal security was invented in the 16th century by reformed theologians like Martin Luther and John Calvin. It was never taught in any church before the 16th century and has been refuted by every single church that was established by the apostles. Now there are many Christians who believe in this doctrine and that’s fine as long as they truly love God. Those who love God will do His will. Believing in eternal security is not a matter of salvation unless someone is using it as an excuse to willfully indulge in sin. There are some, like David, that will say that because they believe they can commit any sins they want and they will still be saved because they believe that Jesus will save them. But how does that line up with what Jesus said in the verses we just examined in Matthew 7:24-27? That idea is contradictory to what Jesus stated and there are numerous examples in scripture that destroy that theology. Anyway I just wanted to show you this so that you can weigh the evidence for yourself. Have a blessed day brother. If you have anymore questions I’d be happy to answer them.

 

[BNR32FAN]

I don't know about you but
that is sin. And it is iniquity not inequity and iniquity means sin.

Yeah sorry my phone’s autocorrect changed the spelling and I don’t have my glasses on. What kind of device are you using? I highly recommend getting a Greek Interlinear Bible app and a Strong’s lexicon app. They are extremely helpful in determining what words were actually written in the Greek & Hebrew texts. Another great source is biblehub.com. You can just type in any Bible verse in your internet search bar and add the word “lexicon” after it and your search should automatically pull up a link to biblenub.com showing a word by word translation providing the Greek word, the English word, and the definition of that word. Here’s an example. Let’s say you type in Matthew 7:23 lexicon into your search bar. You should be able to find a biblehub link typically near the top of the page and it will take you here.

Matthew 7:23 Lexicon: "And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.'

This gives you a word by word translation and if you click on the blue number on the right of the word it will show you the definition. The Greek word used in verse 23 that is translated as inequity is anomian. The blue number to the right is it’s designated Strong’s Concordance reference number. Every word in the KJV Bible has a designated Strong’s Concordance reference number. Strong’s Concordance gives us a lot of information about each word like it’s Greek spelling, the transliteration, the pronunciation, the Strong’s reference number, it’s usage like whether it’s a noun, verb, or adjective, the definition, and it also shows how many times it’s used in the Bible. The Greek word used in Matthew 7:23 that is translated to iniquity or lawlessness is anomian. The Greek word translated to sin is hamartia. So while lawlessness or iniquity is sin it’s not the actual word that was used in that particular verse.

 

[bling]

If Jesus saved us by doing something in us by the Holy Spirit, then there would not have been a need for the incarnation. Jesus could have stayed in heaven and could have sent the Holy Spirit into the world to transform people into his likeness. No life, death and resurrection of Jesus needed. Of course, that would never work because we are not saved by being like Jesus, although many believe that we are.

Jesus saves us, not by doing something in us, but by doing something that is totally and completely outside of us. Paul wrote, "But God commended his love towards us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us" Romans 5:8. Our salvation took place over 2,000 years ago before we were born. How does Jesus save us? Jesus saves us by fulfilling all of the demands of God's law. Jesus saves us by atoning for our sins. All that Jesus is, and all that Jesus did, was for our justification and our salvation.

This is why we are saved and justified by faith alone. The work of salvation has ALREADY been done. Before Jesus died on the cross, he said, "It's finished" what he meant by that is that salvation had been provided for everyone, Hebrews 2:9. No one needs to be predestinated, no one needs to be holy. Salvation has been provided for all that do nothing more than call upon his name, Romans 10:13.

But many will say, no, we must be baptized, and others will say, we must keep the commandments, and then the Calvinist will say you must be predestinated. The "We musters" appear to be endless. All that is required of us is that we believe in Jesus, we believe that Jesus fulfilled the law for us, we believe that Jesus atoned for our sins. That's it. Nothing more is required. Salvation is by faith alone, because it is by Christ alone.

Everything starts with the objective.

Has God given man a mission statement? (this is always good to have)

You can take any command in scripture and have Biblical support for calling that command “Man’s Objective” and have Biblical support for saying that, but there are two overriding commands all other commands are bases on and subordinated to.

Would “Loving God and secondly others with all our heart, soul, mind, and energy” be our Mission statement given as a command?

God is Love, but how do we define this Love and measure this Love?

This Godly type Love is defined by Jesus’ words and deeds (you can also use 1 Cor 13 and 1 John 4), so what is that?

Can we measure the “love” one being has for another being by the amount the Lover is willing to unselfishly sacrifice for the other being?

Is God this ultimate Lover? Would that “Love” compel even God to make beings that could Love like He Loves (this “Love of God” is totally unselfish [a measurement for pure Love] and thus is not for God’s sake at all, but is totally for the sake of others [which would also be God’s sake])?

So, if God is not doing anything for His own sake and everything for the sake of others, would He be expecting or needing anything from man or would God just be trying to give the greatest gifts He could give to man?

The reason this “Love” is the most powerful force in all universes is because it compels even God. So, to have this Love would make us like God Himself, so why does God not just make us with this Love and place us in heaven?

Are there something God just cannot do: like make another Christ, since Christ was never made but always existed?

Could God place this Godly type Love in a person at his/her creation (an instinctive love) or would an instinctive love be like a robotic love and not like God’s Love?

Could God just force His Love on man against the “will” of man or would that be like a shotgun wedding with God holding the shotgun?

What does man need that he does not have instinctively in order for man to fulfill His Mission?

Man must have a very limited amount of autonomous free will to make at least the one choice to humbly accept or reject God’s Love (forgiveness/mercy/grace/charity).

Man’s objective seems to be to obtain and grow this Godly type Love to fulfill the mission (statement) of Love God and secondly others with all our heart, soul, mind, and energy.

Our “objective” while here on earth is to just accept God’s gift as it was given as pure charity, this will enable us to fulfill our mission.

God is not trying to get you to do something, but is trying to give you something.

The problem is not sin (unforgiven sin is a huge problem), because God will forgive our sins which helps us to Love (…he that is forgiven much will Love much….) God hates sin, but does allow it, so we can more easily accept His Love (in the form of forgiveness the easiest way for us to accept His charity). The problem is always our fulfilling our objective.

The Garden is a lousy (impossible) place for humans to fulfill their earthly objective and we can thank Adam and Eve for going through that example and providing us and them with that knowledge.

Sin is not only inevitable, but it is unfortunately necessary for humans.

The easiest way for humans to accept God’s charity (Love) is out of a huge need and that need is the relief from the burden of hurting others in the past (sin). By a free willing acceptance of God’s forgiveness, we accept God’s Love (mercy/grace/charity) and thus we will Love much since Jesus has taught us (we also see this in our own lives) “…he that is forgiven much will Love much…” Luke 7: 36-50.

This world is “very good”, but not “perfect” like heaven is perfect and does not have the same purpose as heaven. This messed up world is actually the very best place for willing individuals to fulfill their earthly objective.

Death is not “bad” in and of itself, but the way good people go home and the way bad people quit doing bad stuff.

It is truly tragic and unfortunate that Christ had to be tortured, humiliated and murdered in order to help willing humans in their fulfilling of their objective, but God is willing to make huge sacrifices to help willing individuals. It is also very sad other humans who had the opportunity to fulfill their primary earthly objective continued to refuse God’s charity to the point they would never of their own free will accepted God’s charity. These God Loved individuals will thus go to their death and destruction as a help to some other humans who have not refused God’s help to the point of never accepting His help.

There are some things that God just cannot do like create a being that was never created and the one important to us is instinctively create us with Godly type Love since that would be robotic type Love. God will also not force his love on us (a shotgun wedding) since that would be unloving on God’s part (there has to be reasonable alternatives to make it a choice [the perceived pleasures of sin]). The easiest way for us to get this Love is through accepting it as a pure charitable gift. The problem being humans (due in part to the needed survival instinct) do not like accepting Charity from a Giver that paid a huge price for the gift.

The easiest way for humans to accept God’s charity (Love) is out of a huge need and that need is the relief from the burden of hurting others in the past (sin). By accepting God’s forgiveness we accept God’s Love (mercy/grace/charity) and thus we will Love much since Jesus has taught us (we also see this in our own lives) “…he that is forgiven much will Love much…” Luke 7: 36-50.

Once we accept Godly type Love, we can truly Love, grow that Love and have the privilege and honor of Loving God (the forgiver) and others (God’s children) with all our heart, soul, mind, and energy.



Since God is “Love” and part of the definition of Godly type Love is unselfishness God is totally unselfish? If God is totally unselfish, He will do and allow all He can to help those that are just willing to accept His help to fulfill their objective (Love). That “all” includes: Christ to go to the cross, satan to roam the earth, tragedies of all kind, hell, evil, and even sin.

Will we know people do not like to accept charity especially from a giver that paid a huge price? People will try to earn the gift, pay back the gift, be more deserving of the gift than the next person or just say they got the gift without having to accept it. The easiest way to accept the gift is through accepting God’s forgiveness (this is after you have sinned) since forgiveness is charity, grace, mercy, Love. AND Jesus has taught us “…he that is forgiven much will Love much…”

The problem is God wants us to be like He is (God’s Love is compelling Him to create beings that can Love like He Loves and made these beings for the sake of those that will accept His Love).

If we continue to refuse God’s Love and really do not want to Love unselfishly, where is there for us to go? Heaven is one huge Love feast so we would not be happy there and God wants us to be happy.

 

[atpollard]

Sin is not what causes a person to end up in the lake of fire. A failure to trust in The Messiah is the reason a person ends up in The Lake of fire.

Revelation 20:15 [NASB20] And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

 

[RobertPate]

Everything starts with the objective.

Has God given man a mission statement? (this is always good to have)

You can take any command in scripture and have Biblical support for calling that command “Man’s Objective” and have Biblical support for saying that, but there are two overriding commands all other commands are bases on and subordinated to.

Would “Loving God and secondly others with all our heart, soul, mind, and energy” be our Mission statement given as a command?

God is Love, but how do we define this Love and measure this Love?

This Godly type Love is defined by Jesus’ words and deeds (you can also use 1 Cor 13 and 1 John 4), so what is that?

Can we measure the “love” one being has for another being by the amount the Lover is willing to unselfishly sacrifice for the other being?

Is God this ultimate Lover? Would that “Love” compel even God to make beings that could Love like He Loves (this “Love of God” is totally unselfish [a measurement for pure Love] and thus is not for God’s sake at all, but is totally for the sake of others [which would also be God’s sake])?

So, if God is not doing anything for His own sake and everything for the sake of others, would He be expecting or needing anything from man or would God just be trying to give the greatest gifts He could give to man?

The reason this “Love” is the most powerful force in all universes is because it compels even God. So, to have this Love would make us like God Himself, so why does God not just make us with this Love and place us in heaven?

Are there something God just cannot do: like make another Christ, since Christ was never made but always existed?

Could God place this Godly type Love in a person at his/her creation (an instinctive love) or would an instinctive love be like a robotic love and not like God’s Love?

Could God just force His Love on man against the “will” of man or would that be like a shotgun wedding with God holding the shotgun?

What does man need that he does not have instinctively in order for man to fulfill His Mission?

Man must have a very limited amount of autonomous free will to make at least the one choice to humbly accept or reject God’s Love (forgiveness/mercy/grace/charity).

Man’s objective seems to be to obtain and grow this Godly type Love to fulfill the mission (statement) of Love God and secondly others with all our heart, soul, mind, and energy.

Our “objective” while here on earth is to just accept God’s gift as it was given as pure charity, this will enable us to fulfill our mission.

God is not trying to get you to do something, but is trying to give you something.

The problem is not sin (unforgiven sin is a huge problem), because God will forgive our sins which helps us to Love (…he that is forgiven much will Love much….) God hates sin, but does allow it, so we can more easily accept His Love (in the form of forgiveness the easiest way for us to accept His charity). The problem is always our fulfilling our objective.

The Garden is a lousy (impossible) place for humans to fulfill their earthly objective and we can thank Adam and Eve for going through that example and providing us and them with that knowledge.

Sin is not only inevitable, but it is unfortunately necessary for humans.

The easiest way for humans to accept God’s charity (Love) is out of a huge need and that need is the relief from the burden of hurting others in the past (sin). By a free willing acceptance of God’s forgiveness, we accept God’s Love (mercy/grace/charity) and thus we will Love much since Jesus has taught us (we also see this in our own lives) “…he that is forgiven much will Love much…” Luke 7: 36-50.

This world is “very good”, but not “perfect” like heaven is perfect and does not have the same purpose as heaven. This messed up world is actually the very best place for willing individuals to fulfill their earthly objective.

Death is not “bad” in and of itself, but the way good people go home and the way bad people quit doing bad stuff.

It is truly tragic and unfortunate that Christ had to be tortured, humiliated and murdered in order to help willing humans in their fulfilling of their objective, but God is willing to make huge sacrifices to help willing individuals. It is also very sad other humans who had the opportunity to fulfill their primary earthly objective continued to refuse God’s charity to the point they would never of their own free will accepted God’s charity. These God Loved individuals will thus go to their death and destruction as a help to some other humans who have not refused God’s help to the point of never accepting His help.

There are some things that God just cannot do like create a being that was never created and the one important to us is instinctively create us with Godly type Love since that would be robotic type Love. God will also not force his love on us (a shotgun wedding) since that would be unloving on God’s part (there has to be reasonable alternatives to make it a choice [the perceived pleasures of sin]). The easiest way for us to get this Love is through accepting it as a pure charitable gift. The problem being humans (due in part to the needed survival instinct) do not like accepting Charity from a Giver that paid a huge price for the gift.

The easiest way for humans to accept God’s charity (Love) is out of a huge need and that need is the relief from the burden of hurting others in the past (sin). By accepting God’s forgiveness we accept God’s Love (mercy/grace/charity) and thus we will Love much since Jesus has taught us (we also see this in our own lives) “…he that is forgiven much will Love much…” Luke 7: 36-50.

Once we accept Godly type Love, we can truly Love, grow that Love and have the privilege and honor of Loving God (the forgiver) and others (God’s children) with all our heart, soul, mind, and energy.



Since God is “Love” and part of the definition of Godly type Love is unselfishness God is totally unselfish? If God is totally unselfish, He will do and allow all He can to help those that are just willing to accept His help to fulfill their objective (Love). That “all” includes: Christ to go to the cross, satan to roam the earth, tragedies of all kind, hell, evil, and even sin.

Will we know people do not like to accept charity especially from a giver that paid a huge price? People will try to earn the gift, pay back the gift, be more deserving of the gift than the next person or just say they got the gift without having to accept it. The easiest way to accept the gift is through accepting God’s forgiveness (this is after you have sinned) since forgiveness is charity, grace, mercy, Love. AND Jesus has taught us “…he that is forgiven much will Love much…”

The problem is God wants us to be like He is (God’s Love is compelling Him to create beings that can Love like He Loves and made these beings for the sake of those that will accept His Love).

If we continue to refuse God’s Love and really do not want to Love unselfishly, where is there for us to go? Heaven is one huge Love feast so we would not be happy there and God wants us to be happy.

God wants us to trust in his Son Jesus Christ for our salvation. There are some places on the earth where they will put you to death if you do that.

 

[atpollard]

God wants us to trust in his Son Jesus Christ for our salvation. There are some places on the earth where they will put you to death if you do that.

"Wants" seems like too weak a verb when one considers the EFFORT that God went through and the magnitude of the HUMILIATION and PAIN that Jesus endured to make God's wish a reality ... I am unsure the English Language contains an appropriate word to convey that level of desire.

[I think it might be one of those things where your soul groans because there are no words to express how you feel.]

 

[RobertPate]

"Wants" seems like too weak a verb when one considers the EFFORT that God went through and the magnitude of the HUMILIATION and PAIN that Jesus endured to make God's wish a reality ... I am unsure the English Language contains an appropriate word to convey that level of desire.

[I think it might be one of those things where your soul groans because there are no words to express how you feel.]

God has done all that he can do to provide salvation for fallen man. The ball is now in humanities court.

 

[d taylor]

I am learning so please explain to me
how you can do anything in the name
of Jesus without believing in Him?

For example, how can you cast out
devils in His name without believing
in Him?

Now God worked unusual miracles by the hands of Paul, so that even handkerchiefs or aprons were brought from his body to the sick, and the diseases left them and the evil spirits went out of them. Then some of the itinerant Jewish exorcists took it upon themselves to call the name of the Lord Jesus over those who had evil spirits, saying, exorcise you by the Jesus whom Paul preaches.” Also there were seven sons of Sceva, a Jewish chief priest, who did so.

And the evil spirit answered and said, “Jesus I know, and Paul I know; but who are you?”


Then the man in whom the evil spirit was leaped on them, overpowered them, and prevailed against them, so that they fled out of that house naked and wounded. This became known both to all Jews and Greeks dwelling in Ephesus; and fear fell on them all, and the name of the Lord Jesus was magnified.

 

[atpollard]

God has done all that he can do to provide salvation for fallen man. The ball is now in humanities court.

Respectfully, I believe that God did EVEN MORE than that ...

So great was His love, that God was unwilling to take "NO" for mankind's final answer (a place of settled resolve God came to before the foundations of the Earth were laid).

 

[d taylor]

Revelation 20:15 [NASB20] And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

Ok, what point are you making with the verse you posted.

 

[atpollard]

Ok, what point are you making with the verse you posted.

None in particular ... just adding VERSE to general opinions.
(I think it helpful to read what God has to say when discussing things like who gets thrown in a lake of fire.) There are not that many verses that talk about the LOF and the one I quoted seemed more "generally applicable" than the verse about the Devil being thrown in the LOF or about Death and the Grave being cast into the LOF.

 

[RobertPate]

Respectfully, I believe that God did EVEN MORE than that ...

So great was His love, that God was unwilling to take "NO" for mankind's final answer (a place of settled resolve God came to before the foundations of the Earth were laid).

You are implying that man does not have a free will and that God predestinates people to heaven and to hell. A very unbiblical and sick doctrine.

 

[atpollard]

You are implying that man does not have a free will and that God predestinates people to heaven and to hell. A very unbiblical and sick doctrine.

No.
Man does have a “free will”, but man also has a “fallen nature”. One must not affirm one and deny the other … both are biblical.

God predestines no one to hell (at least as far as I know since SCRIPTURE never makes any such claim). God is certainly capable of doing many extra-biblical things, but I find it pointless to speculate on things that God has chosen not to reveal. God does, in Christ, predestine some to salvation (according to the Bible). To deny that is to deny scripture.

Here is what I believe:
Adam hid from God (Genesis 3:8).
God overrode Adam’s choice and summoned him anyway (Genesis 3:9).

This sets the pattern for the salvation relationship between God and Man:
Men hide: (John 3:19-20)
God draws: (John 6:44-45)

God does more than leave “the ball in humanity’s court”.

 

[RobertPate]

No.
Man does have a “free will”, but man also has a “fallen nature”. One must not affirm one and deny the other … both are biblical.

God predestines no one to hell (at least as far as I know since SCRIPTURE never makes any such claim). God is certainly capable of doing many extra-biblical things, but I find it pointless to speculate on things that God has chosen not to reveal. God does, in Christ, predestine some to salvation (according to the Bible). To deny that is to deny scripture.

Here is what I believe:
Adam hid from God (Genesis 3:8).
God overrode Adam’s choice and summoned him anyway (Genesis 3:9).

This sets the pattern for the salvation relationship between God and Man:
Men hide: (John 3:19-20)
God draws: (John 6:44-45)

God does more than leave “the ball in humanity’s court”.

The Holy Spirit is in the world calling all to come to Christ. Some hear the call and come to him, others hear the call and reject it. Salvation has ALREADY been provided for everyone, Hebrews 2:9. The ball is now in humanities court.

 

[Saint Steven]

This is why we are saved and justified by faith alone. The work of salvation has ALREADY been done.

This statement appears to be in conflict with itself.
If we indeed are "saved and justified by faith alone." Then how could the "work of salvation..." have "ALREADY been done"?
Is it really grace if there is something we have to do for it? I agree that we need to receive it, but that's not what saved us.

 

[coffee4u]

This statement appears to be in conflict with itself.
If we indeed are "saved and justified by faith alone." Then how could the "work of salvation..." have "ALREADY been done"?
Is it really grace if there is something we have to do for it? I agree that we need to receive it, but that's not what saved us.

I would assume they are referring to Christ's finished work upon the cross.

Probably from Romans 10:4 (New Living Translation)
4 For Christ has already accomplished the purpose for which the law was given. As a result, all who believe in him are made right with God.