How does an Eternal Hell make sense if Christ's purpose was to end death/suffering?

[LuminousPhoenix]

I'm really struggling with the concept that the vast majority of humanity will be subjected to unspeakable torments for all eternity.

We know that Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden was not God's purpose for humanity, and that the Fall of Man and the ensuing mess and Christ having to redeem us was not just plan B. God meant for all of this to happen, because Christ was God's plan for humanity to begin with.

Christ will end all death and suffering. 1st Corinthians 15:26

An eternity where there is more suffering and anguish than rejoicing and glorifying God doesn't make sense. Why would this be God's plan?

I understand that there are many verses that seem to indicate that those who reject God will be eternally tormented. But is it possible we are just misinterpreting this? There are many instances in the Bible where quantities are not literal. For example, in Genesis the wording seemed to indicate that the Great Flood was global, but I think most of us can agree now that it was in fact a devastating local flood that probably affected much of humanity.

For example, 2 Thessalonians 1:8-9 declares "Those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus, they will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might."

Let's supposed that someone is cast into Hell, having rejected Christ. Let's say they suffer in Hell for an interminable length of time. Time will surely work differently in Heaven and Hell, so in one sense perhaps they will be punished for an "everlasting" amount of time. But perhaps it's also possible that the fires of hell will eventually destroy all of their iniquities to the point that they are so humbled that they finally cry out to the Lord, and that eventually God would hear their cries and have mercy? This scenario could possibly fit the above verse. We don't fully comprehend how time will work in the afterlife.

If Hell is not necessary permanent for everyone, I don't think this "cheapens" Christ's sacrifice for us. Hell is I'm sure horrific, and being spared even a short stay there by accepting Christ in this life would be more than worth it, and what if Christ's sacrifice allows those in Hell to eventually be reconciled with Him?


The one thing I keep having to remind myself is that God loves those who are damned far more than I do, so the fate of their souls are in His hands.

 

[razzelflabben]

I'm really struggling with the concept that the vast majority of humanity will be subjected to unspeakable torments for all eternity.

We know that Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden was not God's purpose for humanity, and that the Fall of Man and the ensuing mess and Christ having to redeem us was not just plan B. God meant for all of this to happen, because Christ was God's plan for humanity to begin with.

Christ will end all death and suffering. 1st Corinthians 15:26

now this passage does not say Christ came to end all anything, nor does it say anything about ending suffering. In fact, suffering is very much a part of God's plan.

An eternity where there is more suffering and anguish than rejoicing and glorifying God doesn't make sense. Why would this be God's plan?

well, that has to do with justice. God is a just God and the consequence of sin is death, death here meaning separation from God. Consider this, we are told that God is the light in eternity. If God is not there, there is no light. So, hell is darkness. When we remove God, we are left with anguish, torment, and suffering. That is how suffering came into the world in the first place, we pushed God out by sinning.

I understand that there are many verses that seem to indicate that those who reject God will be eternally tormented. But is it possible we are just misinterpreting this? There are many instances in the Bible where quantities are not literal. For example, in Genesis the wording seemed to indicate that the Great Flood was global, but I think most of us can agree now that it was in fact a devastating local flood that probably affected much of humanity.

I guess anything is possible but a careful study of scripture says that there are some that will end up in hell because they refuse to accept Jesus gift of salvation.

For example, 2 Thessalonians 1:8-9 declares "Those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus, they will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might."

Let's supposed that someone is cast into Hell, having rejected Christ. Let's say they suffer in Hell for an interminable length of time. Time will surely work differently in Heaven and Hell, so in one sense perhaps they will be punished for an "everlasting" amount of time. But perhaps it's also possible that the fires of hell will eventually destroy all of their iniquities to the point that they are so humbled that they finally cry out to the Lord, and that eventually God would hear their cries and have mercy? This scenario could possibly fit the above verse. We don't fully comprehend how time will work in the afterlife.

well, everlasting is pretty clear in the Lexicon, so I'm not sure I can go along with this unless we chose to remove word meanings.

If Hell is not necessary permanent for everyone, I don't think this "cheapens" Christ's sacrifice for us. Hell is I'm sure horrific, and being spared even a short stay there by accepting Christ in this life would be more than worth it, and what if Christ's sacrifice allows those in Hell to eventually be reconciled with Him?

well, let me ask you this...why should God give them another chance when He has been calling them this whole time and they have refused? What would be the logic of that? For example, let's say that you have been repeatedly abused by someone for years and years and years. The abuser is eventually put in jail and the first month, he confesses that he was wrong and is sorry for all the pain he put you though, should he be let out of jail after that first month because he changed his mind? Why would that make sense? What if he was a murderer? A rapist? A child molester? Does their punishment vanish just because they decided they might have been wrong to do what they did?

The one thing I keep having to remind myself is that God loves those who are damned far more than I do, so the fate of their souls are in His hands.

Just don't forget that He is also just and in that, the penalty, or consequence for sin is death (separation from God in hell) and as such, He can't just change His mind because it would feel good to do so.

 

[JohnRabbit]

I'm really struggling with the concept that the vast majority of humanity will be subjected to unspeakable torments for all eternity.

thankfully the bible doesn't speak of such!

We know that Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden was not God's purpose for humanity, and that the Fall of Man and the ensuing mess and Christ having to redeem us was not just plan B. God meant for all of this to happen, because Christ was God's plan for humanity to begin with.

i have to disagree with you on this, given that He created them with free will and gave them the choice between His way and satan's - the two trees. (remember eternal life was offered, gen 3:22.

Christ will end all death and suffering. 1st Corinthians 15:26

absolutely!

An eternity where there is more suffering and anguish than rejoicing and glorifying God doesn't make sense. Why would this be God's plan?

exactly!

I understand that there are many verses that seem to indicate that those who reject God will be eternally tormented. But is it possible we are just misinterpreting this?

yes!

For example, 2 Thessalonians 1:8-9 declares "Those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus, they will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might."
:
Let's supposed that someone is cast into Hell, having rejected Christ. Let's say they suffer in Hell for an interminable length of time. Time will surely work differently in Heaven and Hell, so in one sense perhaps they will be punished for an "everlasting" amount of time. But perhaps it's also possible that the fires of hell will eventually destroy all of their iniquities to the point that they are so humbled that they finally cry out to the Lord, and that eventually God would hear their cries and have mercy? This scenario could possibly fit the above verse. We don't fully comprehend how time will work in the afterlife.

everlasting destruction means just what it says!

check this out:

Malachi 4:1.3(NKJV)
1 “For behold, the day is coming, Burning like an oven, And all the proud, yes, all who do wickedly will be stubble. And the day which is coming shall burn them up,” Says the Lord of hosts, “That will leave them neither root nor branch.
3 You shall trample the wicked, For they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet On the day that I do this,” Says the Lord of hosts.

who doesn't know what stubble is?
who doesn't know what "burn them up" means?
who doesn't know what ashes are? (it says plainly that the wicked will be ashes!)

we have to quit playing these games like we can't read or something!

so the destruction of the wicked is everlasting, meaning gone, out of here, finito and never to come back.

in revelation it is called the second death, which is a death from which there is no later resurrection (rev 20:13-14, remember that God has to give life to the dead for them to live again - rom 4:17)!

the wicked shall be dead or cease to exist throughout all eternity! (the ultimate separation from God!)

The one thing I keep having to remind myself is that God loves those who are damned far more than I do, so the fate of their souls are in His hands.

that's why God, in punishing the wicked, does it in a way that's merciful and consistent with His will. it would be torture to burn someone forever or to let them live forever with sinful tormented minds.

He will literally put the wicked out of their misery!

 

[nonaeroterraqueous]

But perhaps it's also possible that the fires of hell will eventually destroy all of their iniquities to the point that they are so humbled that they finally cry out to the Lord, and that eventually God would hear their cries and have mercy?

If that's the case, then the riches of Heaven might eventually, or even inevitably, spoil us into arrogance, rejecting our dependence on Christ and falling from grace like the devil. If one can move freely from Hell to Heaven, then the reverse would be true, and one must assume that a person could go from Heaven to Hell and back again ad absurdum.

To understand Hell, one must understand God:

Given that God has already existed forever into the past and will exist forever into the future, eternity is just a normal span of time.

Given that God is perfect, we are rated a score against an infinite scale. Relative to perfection, anything else is just failure

To understand Hell, one must understand Heaven:

Heaven is pure and good, and nothing comes into it that is evil or impure, including the people. Hell is an evil place with impure things, including the people. There are no good people in Hell, as there are no evil people at all in Heaven, which means that there is no room for a transition. This life is the only place that affords such a transition.

Heaven is forever. You can accept that. You could accept that Hell is forever, but only for the fact that you happen not to like it.

Heaven does not serve to make you a worse person, and Hell does not serve to make you a better one.

To understand Hell, you must first understand life:

Everyone dies. How can you accept this horrible fact? Hell is less universal, but everyone is doomed, naturally.

We live by the destruction and murder of other living things. Discuss it over a hamburger. How can you accept this horrible fact? You could go vegan, if you value one kind of organism less than another, but this is unfair. Eternally, we live by the death of another. Abstain from this long enough, and it becomes too late to change. A man who dies of hunger cannot eat. A man who dies without Christ cannot eat the bread of life.

 

[SAAN]

John 3:16(KJV)
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Perish means to die, not get eternal life burning for ever.

 

[Sophrosyne]

Matthew 25:31-46

Note that verse 46 equates one cannot have eternal life without the existence of eternal punishment if you make either of them NOT eternal BOTH are NOT eternal.

 

[LaSorcia]

How does an Eternal Hell make sense if Christ's purpose was to end death/suffering?

It doesn't.

On Justice and Mercy: So many folks think that as Christians, they will get God's mercy, and that those other, wicked people who reject God will get God's justice.

This makes much more sense to me, and has biblical support as well (and no, I will not provide a list of 36 scriptures; I think that's obnoxious):
The hurt and wounded get God's justice, that is, the making right of wrongs and bringing good out of evil. It is the wicked, the sinners, the rejectors, who get the mercy! Go figure that!

 

[2KnowHim]

I'm really struggling with the concept that the vast majority of humanity will be subjected to unspeakable torments for all eternity.

We know that Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden was not God's purpose for humanity, and that the Fall of Man and the ensuing mess and Christ having to redeem us was not just plan B. God meant for all of this to happen, because Christ was God's plan for humanity to begin with.

Christ will end all death and suffering. 1st Corinthians 15:26

An eternity where there is more suffering and anguish than rejoicing and glorifying God doesn't make sense. Why would this be God's plan?

I understand that there are many verses that seem to indicate that those who reject God will be eternally tormented. But is it possible we are just misinterpreting this? There are many instances in the Bible where quantities are not literal. For example, in Genesis the wording seemed to indicate that the Great Flood was global, but I think most of us can agree now that it was in fact a devastating local flood that probably affected much of humanity.

For example, 2 Thessalonians 1:8-9 declares "Those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus, they will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might."

Let's supposed that someone is cast into Hell, having rejected Christ. Let's say they suffer in Hell for an interminable length of time. Time will surely work differently in Heaven and Hell, so in one sense perhaps they will be punished for an "everlasting" amount of time. But perhaps it's also possible that the fires of hell will eventually destroy all of their iniquities to the point that they are so humbled that they finally cry out to the Lord, and that eventually God would hear their cries and have mercy? This scenario could possibly fit the above verse. We don't fully comprehend how time will work in the afterlife.

If Hell is not necessary permanent for everyone, I don't think this "cheapens" Christ's sacrifice for us. Hell is I'm sure horrific, and being spared even a short stay there by accepting Christ in this life would be more than worth it, and what if Christ's sacrifice allows those in Hell to eventually be reconciled with Him?


The one thing I keep having to remind myself is that God loves those who are damned far more than I do, so the fate of their souls are in His hands.

Hell, is a state of the Soul of man when wrestling with The Spirit of God and The Truth, because it goes against everything that we thought was real, that we've been taught, our own imaginations....basically it is our Life.

Mat 10:36 And a man's foes shall be they of his own household. (This is within us) it is our house
Mat 10:37 He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.
Mat 10:38 And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.
Mat 10:39 He that findeth his life/soul shall lose it: and he that loseth his life/soul for my sake shall find it.

Mar 8:35 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it; but whosoever shall lose his life for my sake and the gospel's, the same shall save it.
Mar 8:36 For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?
Mar 8:37 Or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?

Soul/Life for Life/Soul, this is True Covenant Relationship.
For there is no Greater Love than a man Lay down his Life/soul for another.
This is exactly what our Lord did when He poured out His Soul/Life unto Death.

We exchange our life for His, our Soul for His.

 

[razzelflabben]

How does an Eternal Hell make sense if Christ's purpose was to end death/suffering?

It doesn't.

On Justice and Mercy: So many folks think that as Christians, they will get God's mercy, and that those other, wicked people who reject God will get God's justice. I'm not sure I am totally following you here, please elaborate

This makes much more sense to me, and has biblical support as well (and no, I will not provide a list of 36 scriptures; I think that's obnoxious):
The hurt and wounded get God's justice, that is, the making right of wrongs and bringing good out of evil. It is the wicked, the sinners, the rejectors, who get the mercy! Go figure that!

Don't we all get God's justice? Isn't that the point of Christ, that He has already paid for our sins, thus our debt has been paid and therefore justice removes us from guilt.

 

[2KnowHim]

Matthew 25:31-46

Note that verse 46 equates one cannot have eternal life without the existence of eternal punishment if you make either of them NOT eternal BOTH are NOT eternal.

Not when you understand that Eternal means the permanence of the Result, rather than the continuation of the process.

 

[Sophrosyne]

Not when you understand that Eternal means the permanence of the Result, rather than the continuation of the process.

If you read the whole of that scripture and not just that one verse and apply the meaning to that effort you get no such inference at all.

 

[LaSorcia]

I have to wonder why some people seem so satisfied to think that hell is eternal, that people have to suffer there, and have an attitude of 'too bad, so sad' for those that didn't choose Jesus's offer before departing this world.

If it really is the case that hell is a place of never-ending torment, and that we only get to choose during this lifetime, we shouldn't be debating to prove that we are correct on this point of theology. We should be falling to our knees, continually begging God to have mercy and persuade every soul to accept Christ's ransom!

 

[razzelflabben]

I have to wonder why some people seem so satisfied to think that hell is eternal, that people have to suffer there, and have an attitude of 'too bad, so sad' for those that didn't choose Jesus's offer before departing this world.

I'm not sure I have ever seen the 'too bad, so sad' attitude toward eternal hell.

If it really is the case that hell is a place of never-ending torment, and that we only get to choose during this lifetime, we shouldn't be debating to prove that we are correct on this point of theology. We should be falling to our knees, continually begging God to have mercy and persuade every soul to accept Christ's ransom!

amen

 

[JohnRabbit]

Matthew 25:31-46

Note that verse 46 equates one cannot have eternal life without the existence of eternal punishment if you make either of them NOT eternal BOTH are NOT eternal.

it is interesting that you say the opposite of what john said!

1 John 3:15(NKJV)
15Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.

so i submit that you do not understand what "eternal punishment" means and/or you did not read my above post #3!

 

[JohnRabbit]

It is the wicked, the sinners, the rejectors, who get the mercy! Go figure that!

we do worship a God Who is love!

the psalmist says that His mercies endures forever!

what's to figure?

 

[JohnRabbit]

If it really is the case that hell is a place of never-ending torment, and that we only get to choose during this lifetime, we shouldn't be debating to prove that we are correct on this point of theology.

yeah, why let something as "trivial" as the truth of the matter get in the way!

1 Thessalonians 5:20-21(KJV)
20Despise not prophesyings.
21Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.

 

[Sophrosyne]

it is interesting that you say the opposite of what john said!

1 John 3:15(NKJV)
15Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.

so i submit that you do not understand what "eternal punishment" means and/or you did not read my above post #3!

Avoiding the scripture I posted and trying to send me on a tangent doesn't prove anything. The simple fact is according to what you think that means NOBODY will be saved at all because everyone hates someone in their lifetime....... in other words your arguments is irrelevant to being sent to hell it isn't LACK of murdering that keeps us out of hell but faith in Jesus.

 

[JohnRabbit]

Avoiding the scripture I posted and trying to send me on a tangent doesn't prove anything. The simple fact is according to what you think that means NOBODY will be saved at all because everyone hates someone in their lifetime....... in other words your arguments is irrelevant to being sent to hell it isn't LACK of murdering that keeps us out of hell but faith in Jesus.

whatever!

all i know is that you have a bad habit of saying the direct opposite of what the bible says!

maybe you should to get that checked out or something!

 

[BobRyan]

Christ will end all death and suffering. 1st Corinthians 15:26

An eternity where there is more suffering and anguish than rejoicing and glorifying God doesn't make sense. Why would this be God's plan?

I understand that there are many verses that seem to indicate that those who reject God will be eternally tormented. But is it possible we are just misinterpreting this? There are many instances in the Bible where quantities are not literal. For example, in Genesis the wording seemed to indicate that the Great Flood was global, but I think most of us can agree now that it was in fact a devastating local flood that probably affected much of humanity.

1. Matt 10:28 "fear Him who is able to DESTROY BOTH body AND soul in fiery hell" The Lake of Fire.
2. Rev 14:10 Fiery hell in the lake of fire - takes place fully 'IN the presence of the Lamb AND of His holy ones".
3. Even Satan -- "will cease to be forever" at some point. Ezek 28

Ezek 28
“You were the anointed cherub who covers,
And I placed you there.
You were on the holy mountain of God;
You walked in the midst of the stones of fire.
15 “You were blameless in your ways
From the day you were created
Until unrighteousness was found in you.
16 “By the abundance of your trade
You were internally filled with violence,
And you sinned;
Therefore I have cast you as profane
From the mountain of God.
And I have destroyed you, O covering cherub,
From the midst of the stones of fire.
17 “Your heart was lifted up because of your beauty;
You corrupted your wisdom by reason of your splendor.
I cast you to the ground;
I put you before kings,
That they may see you.
18 “By the multitude of your iniquities,
In the unrighteousness of your trade
You profaned your sanctuaries.
Therefore I have brought fire from the midst of you;
It has consumed you,
And I have turned you to ashes on the earth
In the eyes of all who see you.
19 “All who know you among the peoples
Are appalled at you;
You have become terrified
And you will cease to be forever.”’”

 

[Sophrosyne]

whatever!

all i know is that you have a bad habit of saying the direct opposite of what the bible says!

maybe you should to get that checked out or something!

Actually the habit is yours, not mine as I've checked out the Bible and it equates over and over that there are the saved and the lost. The problem is that some here don't believe people stay "lost" in the end which means sent to the land of the lost forever (hell).