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How do you understand atonement

Discussion in 'General Theology' started by Stryder06, Apr 8, 2013.

  1. tall73

    tall73 Sophia7's husband Supporter

    We know in part, but you seem to want to ignore the part that is revealed in Hebrews.

    The cleansing work of the blood is just that --cleansing from sin of the whole camp throughout the whole year. It is cleansing, not investigation. The priest does not investigate the blood, he applies it for atonement.

    Considering the death of Jesus was once for all time, unlike the sanctuary service, and He now sits at the right have of God waiting for His enemies to be a footstool per Hebrews, and the text already says He made purification for sins, and describes His presentation in God's presence in comparison to the high priest yearly, in the context of the cleansing of the heavenly things....yes, He already did it.

    If the death of Christ stretches across all time, why would not the ministration of the blood?

    He paid for all sins all at once in His death and presented His sacrifice for all sins once.

    Now the Scapegoat, that happened when the priest left the sanctuary, that is not spelled out in the NT. We can perhaps infer from the type.

    However, the once for all death, once for all entry and the purification for sins are spelled out.
  2. abacabb

    abacabb Newbie

    Petra, I'll address all your Scripture after you answer one simple question without writing a whole paragraph meandering in another question:

    Are YOU without sin and live by what you say or are you going to hell, but believe that other people are capable of sinless perfection?

    If you write a 5 paragraph explanation going in some other direction, I take it you are intellectually dishonest and by that action, merely prove my point.
  3. Leuko Petra

    Leuko Petra Following The Lamb

    It is either total ignorance [which we may now remedy], or willfully ignorant [which has no remedy except by the grace of God] to say such things concerning the Scapegoat and the NT, for it is fully 'spelled out' in the NT based upon the type given in the OT, and none have to 'infer', for that is not how scripture works, for it is given unto all even "line upon line, precept upon precept" [Isaiah 28:10].

    Consider, even by the statement, "...the Scapegoat, that happened when the priest left the sanctuary...", and therefore the admission is gained that not all portions of the Day of Atonement took place at the Cross [for it is impossible in type for it to be so], and let us come back to this later, considering the ministration of Jesus in the "daily" in the Holy Place [for He must of necessity have ministered here before moving into the most inner Naos], and finally the "yearly" in the Most Holy Place [Naos]:

    But the goat, on which the lot fell to be the scapegoat, shall be presented alive before the LORD, to make an atonement with him, [and] to let him go for a scapegoat into the wilderness. Leviticus 16:10

    And when he hath made an end of reconciling the holy [place], and the tabernacle of the congregation, and the altar, he shall bring the live goat: Leviticus 16:20

    And Aaron shall lay both his hands upon the head of the live goat, and confess over him all the iniquities of the children of Israel, and all their transgressions in all their sins, putting them upon the head of the goat, and shall send [him] away by the hand of a fit man into the wilderness: Leviticus 16:21

    And the goat shall bear upon him all their iniquities unto a land not inhabited: and he shall let go the goat in the wilderness. Leviticus 16:22

    And Aaron shall come into the tabernacle of the congregation, and shall put off the linen garments, which he put on when he went into the holy [place], and shall leave them there: Leviticus 16:23

    We have already seen that the Scapegoat is not "for the LORD" - http://www.christianforums.com/t7737410-5/#post62881115

    And the events which surround the Scapegoat's release "into the wilderness", do not happen until after the Highpriest "...hath made and end of reconciling the holy, and the tabernacle of the congregation, and the altar...", and then "...he shall bring the live goat". Notice the Scapegoat does not there die, but is brought alive ["the live goat"] before the Highpriest.

    First, when did Christ Jesus become our Anointed Great Highpriest? Not until after the Resurrection and Ascension [2nd; the Mt. Olives] into Heaven, and finally at Pentecost, and there were again 12 [Hebrews 7:26; Acts 1:1-26, 2:1-41 - needed 12 for fulfillment, see Exodus 28:13-21, 39:8-14; and for the anoninting see Exodus 29:7 in connection with Psalms 133:1-3, for Christ the Head [Ephesians 5:23; Colossians 1:18] of the Body [Romans 12:5; 1 Corinthians 12:12; Colossians 2:19], and since the Oil is representative of the Holy Spirit Himself [1 Samuel 16:13; Zechariah 4:2-6], thus in Heaven was it poured out upon Christ Jesus, flowing from Head down to the Body, at Pentecost, but to all of the body, even coming to the touching the earth - but notice, that it even is to go to the 'feet' [down to the last "remnant" of the Body]].

    Now, let us consider this "wilderness", for it is obvious that Heaven is no such wilderness, and most definitely not devoid of living beings, such as the angelic hosts, representatives of the unfallen populous worlds ['sons of God'], 24 elders ['powerful angels'], 4 living creatures, Enoch, Elijah, Moses and the special 'firstfruits' - ["ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them" [Revelation 12:12], etc], and so also the earth even then at the Cross, neither now is a "wilderness", but shall be so again during the "thousand years" [Revelation 20] which are yet to come, and begin with Christ Jesus Second Advent, and continue unto the 3rd Advent. Let us see this:

    Scripturally speaking what is the "wilderness"? It is a "land not inhabited"; iow, without living men [humanity], "without form and void"; iow, chaotic, a place that was once "fruitful", but now devoid of life, for the final abomination will bring total desolation -

    I beheld the earth, and, lo, [it was] without form, and void; and the heavens, and they [had] no light. Jeremiah 4:23

    I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly. Jeremiah 4:24

    I beheld, and, lo, [there was] no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled. Jeremiah 4:25

    I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place [was] a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the LORD, [and] by his fierce anger. Jeremiah 4:26

    For thus hath the LORD said, The whole land shall be desolate; yet will I not make a full end. Jeremiah 4:27

    For this shall the earth mourn, and the heavens above be black: because I have spoken [it], I have purposed [it], and will not repent, neither will I turn back from it. Jeremiah 4:28

    The whole city shall flee for the noise of the horsemen and bowmen; they shall go into thickets, and climb up upon the rocks: every city [shall be] forsaken, and not a man dwell therein. Jeremiah 4:29

    For, lo, I begin to bring evil on the city which is called by my name, and should ye be utterly unpunished? Ye shall not be unpunished: for I will call for a sword upon all the inhabitants of the earth, saith the LORD of hosts. Jeremiah 25:29

    Therefore prophesy thou against them all these words, and say unto them, The LORD shall roar from on high, and utter his voice from his holy habitation; he shall mightily roar upon his habitation; he shall give a shout, as they that tread [the grapes], against all the inhabitants of the earth. Jeremiah 25:30

    A noise shall come [even] to the ends of the earth; for the LORD hath a controversy with the nations, he will plead with all flesh; he will give them [that are] wicked to the sword, saith the LORD. Jeremiah 25:31

    Thus saith the LORD of hosts, Behold, evil shall go forth from nation to nation, and a great whirlwind shall be raised up from the coasts of the earth. Jeremiah 25:32

    And the slain of the LORD shall be at that day from [one] end of the earth even unto the [other] end of the earth: they shall not be lamented, neither gathered, nor buried; they shall be dung upon the ground. Jeremiah 25:33

    Howl, ye shepherds, and cry; and wallow yourselves [in the ashes], ye principal of the flock: for the days of your slaughter and of your dispersions are accomplished; and ye shall fall like a pleasant vessel. Jeremiah 25:34

    And the shepherds shall have no way to flee, nor the principal of the flock to escape. Jeremiah 25:35

    A voice of the cry of the shepherds, and an howling of the principal of the flock, [shall be heard]: for the LORD hath spoiled their pasture. Jeremiah 25:36

    And the peaceable habitations are cut down because of the fierce anger of the LORD. Jeremiah 25:37

    He hath forsaken his covert, as the lion: for their land is desolate because of the fierceness of the oppressor, and because of his fierce anger. Jeremiah 25:38

    For compare Leviticus 16, to passages in Revelation [like 15 and 20, etc,

    And there shall be no man in the tabernacle of the congregation when he goeth in to make an atonement in the holy [place], until he come out, and have made an atonement for himself, and for his household, and for all the congregation of Israel. Leviticus 16:17

    And the temple was filled with smoke from the glory of God, and from his power; and no man was able to enter into the temple, till the seven plagues of the seven angels were fulfilled. Revelation 15:8

    Compare Leviticus 16:10,20-23 [above] to:

    And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. Revelation 20:1

    Satan is to be "presented alive" [Leviticus 16:10], and is not eliminated at the 2nd Advent, but is to be taken and "bound" by a "great chain" [see Lamentations 3:7; 2 Peter 2:4; Jude 1:6, for this is no ordinary chain of metal, seeing the devil may break these [Luke 8:29, etc], but a chain of circumstance] and "let go" into "the wilderness" alive:

    And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, Revelation 20:2

    And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season. Revelation 20:3

    "bottomless pit" is the Greek ἄβυσσος - abussos, and means, void, a desert wilderness [see also Luke 8:29 "into the wilderness", connected with Luke 8:31, "the deep", compare also to Mark 5:10, "away out of the country", out from cultivated and populated areas], see also LXX Genesis 1:2 "without form and void" - h de gh hn aoratos kai akataskeuastos kai skotos epanw ths abussou kai pneuma qeou epefereto epanw tou udatos, etc.

    Consdier also texts, which speak of the, "after many days" [1,000 years], "And they shall be gathered together, [as] prisoners are gathered in the pit, and shall be shut up in the prison, and after many days shall they be visited." Isaiah 24:22 and "After many days thou shalt be visited: in the latter years thou shalt come into the land [that is] brought back from the sword, [and is] gathered out of many people, against the mountains of Israel, which have been always waste: but it is brought forth out of the nations, and they shall dwell safely all of them." Ezekiel 38:8 [see Gog and Magog in Rev 20, see context in Ezekiel 38]

    The earth during the 1,000 years has no human inhabitant, for the earth is laid low by the 7 last plagues, destruction, 2nd Advent, the righteous are all "caught up together" [1 Thessalonians 4:15-17], and all of the wicked slain or remain slain until after the 1,000 years [Revlation 20:5a]. Satan is bound there, a place once of a Garden, a place once of Babylon the Great, now to become a "habitation of dragons" [Isaiah 34:14], "a parched ground", "thirsty land" [Isaiah 35:7]:

    And thorns shall come up in her palaces, nettles and brambles in the fortresses thereof: and it shall be an habitation of dragons, [and] a court for owls. Isaiah 34:14

    Notice, carefully what the text says:

    And there shall be no man in the tabernacle of the congregation when he goeth in to make an atonement in the holy [place], until he come out, and have made an atonement for himself, and for his household, and for all the congregation of Israel. Leviticus 16:17

    If any place this event at the Cross, or even at the entry of Jesus into Heaven itself [Psalms 24; Acts 1:9-11; Revelation 12:5, etc], then it is obvious, that they have a serious conundrum upon their own hands, for then "no man" is then to be "in" that place with Him - for 2,000 years thus far, for it is plain that He has not yet "come out".

    Those words, "until he come out" are very important, see Hebrews 9:28:

    So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation. Hebrews 9:28

    The ceremony of the Scapegoat in the Day of Atonement is to make an "atonement with him", that is with the scapegoat, not for the peoples Israel, for the sins of Satan and the wicked have yet to be dealt with, they must pay for their sins [Satan the root, they the branches], in torment and 2nd death, since they having rejected Christ's sacrifice and atoning work.

    Let us never confuse the work gone on in the Courtyard, with that of the work gone on in Holy, neither either with that work gone on in that of the Most Holy. There is a work foreshadowed to be done in each. Also let us never confuse the Scapegoat which is not for the Lord, with the LORD's Goat which is for the LORD. And let us never think that the true Sacrifice, and the Blood obtained, takes care of all of the work of the priest and Highpriest, for the Sacrifice and the Blood obtained is different from the work of the Highpriest with the Sacrifice and the Blood obtained. There was also that which the people were also to enter into with the Highpreist, by faith in the last atoning work also - "...ye shall afflict your souls, and do no work at all..." [Leviticus 16:29]; "It [shall be] a sabbath of rest unto you, and ye shall afflict your souls, by a statute for ever." [Leviticus 16:31]; "...a day of atonement: it shall be an holy convocation unto you; and ye shall afflict your souls, and offer an offering made by fire unto the LORD." [Leviticus 23:27], "And ye shall do no work in that same day: for it [is] a day of atonement, to make an atonement for you before the LORD your God." [Leviticus 23:28]; "For whatsoever soul [it be] that shall not be afflicted in that same day, he shall be cut off from among his people." [Leviticus 23:29]; "And whatsoever soul [it be] that doeth any work in that same day, the same soul will I destroy from among his people." [Leviticus 23:30]; "Ye shall do no manner of work: [it shall be] a statute for ever throughout your generations in all your dwellings." [Leviticus 23:31]; "It [shall be] unto you a sabbath of rest, and ye shall afflict your souls: in the ninth [day] of the month at even, from even unto even, shall ye celebrate your sabbath." [Leviticus 23:32] and all those not entered therein, were forever "cut off" of Israel; therefore they which knowingly reject this, will experience the 2nd death.
  4. abacabb

    abacabb Newbie

    Leuko, blah blah blah...ARE YOU WITHOUT SIN? Answer the question or stop wasting our time.
  5. sunlover1

    sunlover1 Beloved, Let us love one another

    United States
    I'm convinced that one died for all, and therefore all died...to sin that is.
  6. Leuko Petra

    Leuko Petra Following The Lamb

    A question with a question, in consideration of the following two scriptures, though the answer was already given here - http://www.christianforums.com/t7737410-6/#post62882608 -

    Afterward Jesus findeth him in the temple, and said unto him, Behold, thou art made whole: sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee. John 5:14

    She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more. John 8:11

    Is what Jesus commanded [told] them [and so also us] to do possible or impossible in the promise, grace, strength and Word of God?
  7. Leuko Petra

    Leuko Petra Following The Lamb

    Consider the following:

    Dennis Priebe-1 - Protestant or Catholic - YouTube

    Face to Face with the Real Gospel
    Dennis Priebe-2 -Face to Face with the Real Gospel-1 - YouTube

    Will the Real Gospel Please Stand Up?
    Dennis Priebe Will the Real Gospel Please Stand Up - YouTube

    What Is Sin?
    Dennis Priebe What Is Sin - YouTube

    The Judgment
    Dennis Priebe The Judgement - YouTube

    What Is A Seventh Day Adventist?
    Dennis Priebe: What Is a Seventh-day Adventist - YouTube
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2013
  8. Leuko Petra

    Leuko Petra Following The Lamb

    I will let the final judgment determine whether or not what was given in reply is a waste of time or not. The question was already answered - http://www.christianforums.com/t7737410-7/#post62894782

    The question also places me [or another human, or devil] in the judgment seat instead of God, and why would any want that answer? God is the judge. It is He who determines the answer. Satan is the Accuser. Jesus is my Advocate. Christ Jesus [the Head of the Body] is without sin. He says to us, "go and sin no more." In the Everlasting Gospel, He promises to save us from our sins [Matthew 1:21] and write His Law in our hearts [Jeremiah 31:31-34], that "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us [our] sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness." 1 John 1:9
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2013
  9. Leuko Petra

    Leuko Petra Following The Lamb

    In type, the typical high priest was not the one to 'investigate', but God was to. Notice, that all the peoples had to "afflict their souls" [Leviticus 16:29,31, 23:27,32; Numbers 29:7] before God in the time of that judgment, searching of heart, and cleansing work gone on. For God would see, if the sins confessed were truly repented of or no ["...for God trieth the hearts and reigns" [Psalms 7:9; see also Proverbs 17:3; 1 Thessalonians 2:4]]. Anyone found not in the will of God, would be "cut off" [Leviticus 23:29], and that same individual, would God "...also destroy from among his people." [Leviticus 23:30]. One may consider Matthew 18 also. The high priest in the type had no ability to read men's hearts, but God can/does [Luke 16:15; Acts 15:8; Romans 8:27, etc]. However, in the reality, Christ Jesus is both our Great High Priest and God [the Son] ministering in the Heavenly [since AD 1844 [Daniel 8:13-14], the Most Holy] as our Advocate/Mediator before God [the Father]. Jesus therefore, being much greater than the earthly type, does both - "...all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works." [Revelation 2:23]

    The various phases of the judgment and the teaching of the 'investigation' [judgment] is witnessed from Genesis to Revelation, and this may be demonstrated by the texts themselves, if any would like to see?
  10. abacabb

    abacabb Newbie

    Leuko, are you perfect or not, I want to know.:liturgy:
  11. Leuko Petra

    Leuko Petra Following The Lamb

    The Word is my Judge [John 12:48], even as Jesus is [Revelation 19:11], and to it and He, I agree.

    Paul says it this way:

    "Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus." [Philippians 3:12]

    "Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but [this] one thing [I do], forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before," [Philippians 3:13]

    "I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus." [Philippians 3:14]

    "Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you." [Philippians 3:15]

    This question was already answered by scripture, and so that answer will not change, no matter how many times it is asked, therefore, please read more closely the texts cited in them. - http://www.christianforums.com/t7737410-7/#post62894782 and http://www.christianforums.com/t7737410-7/#post62896226

    Already knowing that 1 John 1:8 would be cited and still misapplied to what was given in response, even misunderstanding it and what was there given, a further answer was given in the second link, knowing that it too would not be understood. 1 John 3 answers the question, as now also Paul above in Philippians.

    The question itself is really assaulting the promises of God, and His Word and His Holy character, for it is given that He would create in us a "clean heart" and a "right spirit" [Psalms 51:10], for this is the God of "salvation" from sin, not 'almost but not quite salvation' in sin. Sin is clearly defined in 1 John 3:4.

    Define the mark in 1 John 3:4, for it is quite clear in the Greek itself.

    Here, consider the Everlasting Gospel -
    Restoration...Dennis Priebe - YouTube

    Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world. 1 John 4:3

    Make you perfect in every good work to do his will, working in you that which is wellpleasing in his sight, through Jesus Christ; to whom [be] glory for ever and ever. Amen. Hebrews 13:21

    But the God of all grace, who hath called us unto his eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after that ye have suffered a while, make you perfect, stablish, strengthen, settle [you]. 1 Peter 5:10

    But let patience have [her] perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing. James 1:4

    Read Hebrews 9 really closely, especially vs 9,14...

    If only people would come to understand what Christ Jesus is truly offering them... victory over sin now.

    People, by the all mighty power and Grace of God, become "set free" from smoking, drinking, drugs, pornography, foul language, murders, thefts, idolatries, evil thoughts, and all manner of vice, wickedness and lawlessness, etc and yet, so many see that Christ Jesus can brake the chains and bondage of one sin, but they fear He cannot sever them from all here and now... they lack faith in Him.

    However, let us say as an "if", my own example is found in the end to be as of a complete and total hypocrite, in that I preached righteousness by faith and yet lived unrighteously in doubt, what has such as even that example have to do with the Faith and Promises of God? Does such and example make Him the liar? Does it make His promises void? Of course not. Look higher, set the faith in Christ Jesus. Paul is pretty clear about this in several palces, like Romans, etc.

    The question is asked by satan of God. God answered Him by the life of Jesus, who lived 33 1/2 years in sinful flesh, and yet sinned not. Therefore we are all without excuse, o man...
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2013
  12. Leuko Petra

    Leuko Petra Following The Lamb

    Hebrews 10, let's take a look, especially vs 11-12 [in context of course], for there is great misunderstanding and much misinformation about these two texts out there in the world, that must be set straight, that the work and character of Christ Jesus be revealed.

    "And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:" [Hebrews 10:11]

    "But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;" [Hebrews 10:12]

    By these, it is too quickly claimed, that there was no such thing as the "daily" ministration of Jesus in the Heavenly Holy Place as Daniel 8:11,12,13, 11:31, 12:11; Revelation [various texts], etc reveals and as the Seventh-day Adventist movement preaches, but is such an assertion so? The assertion is not true, and the correct understanding is even in plain view.
  13. Stryder06

    Stryder06 Check the signature

    Tall, you're not allowing the process to explain itself. No one is denying the sufficentcy of the sacrifice of Christ. That's not the issue. On the day of atonement, the service for cleansing the sanctuary, and the people, was not complete until the final burnt offering was made, which was for the atonment of Aaron and the people. The book of Hebrews doesn't shed light on the day of atonment. In all honesty it doesn't even touch on the subject. It speaks of Christ as our new High Priest, who's sacrifice was more sufficent than those of the earthly priests.

    You can't say Christ has cleansed the sanctuary, when the process for cleansing the sanctuary, as spelled out in Leviticus 16, hasn't been completed.
  14. abacabb

    abacabb Newbie

    Okay...so, you don't sin anymore, correct?:doh:
  15. Leuko Petra

    Leuko Petra Following The Lamb

  16. abacabb

    abacabb Newbie

  17. Leuko Petra

    Leuko Petra Following The Lamb

    Let us consider this "daily":

    "daily" [English KJV, especially in connection with Daniel 8:11,12,13, 11:31, 12:11; please note that in various translations, the word [sacrifice] or something akin, is always added and not in the original Hebrew, it was originally meant as an help, but today is abused], in Hebrew [Strong's H8548] תָּמִיד - tamiyd, meaning "1) continuity, perpetuity, to stretch; a) continually, continuously (as adverb);b) continuity (subst)" [Strong's Concordance], utilized in the KJV AV 104 times — continually 53, continual 26, daily 7, always 6, alway 4, ever 3, perpetual 2, continual employment 1, evermore 1, never 1.

    Taken from Strong's Concordance and E-Sword King James Concordance app-

    "continually" - 53
    Exodus 28:29,30, 29:38;
    Leviticus 24:2,3,4, 24:8;
    2 Samuel 9:7,13;
    1 Kings 10:8;
    2 Kings 4:9, 25:29;
    1 Chronicles 16:6,11,37,40, 23:31;
    2 Chronicles 9:7, 24:14;
    Psalms 34:1, 35:27, 38:17, 40:11,16, 50:8, 69:23, 70:4, 71:3,6, 72:14,15, 74:23 (2 times), 109:15,19,44,109,117;
    Proverbs 6:21;
    Isaiah 21:8, 49:16, 51:13, 52:5, 60:11 (2 times), 65:3;
    Jeremiah 6:7, 52:33;
    Ezekiel 46:14;
    Hosea 12:6;
    Obadiah 1:16;
    Nahum 3:19;
    Habakkuk 1:17

    "continual" - 26
    Exodus 29:42;
    Numbers 4:7, 28:3,6,10,15,23,24,31, 29:11,16,19,22,25,28,28,31,34,38;
    2 Kings 25:30;
    2 Chronicles 2:4;
    Ezra 3:5;
    Nehemiah 10:33 (2 times);
    Proverbs 15:15;
    Jeremiah 52:34;
    Ezekiel 46:15

    "daily" - 7
    Numbers 4:15,16, 29:6;
    Daniel 8:11,12,13, 11:31, 12:11

    "always" - 6
    Exodus 27:20, 28:38;
    Deuteronomy 11:12;
    Psalms 16:8;
    Proverbs 5:19;
    Ezekiel 38:8

    "alway" - 4
    Exodus 25:30;
    Numbers 9:16;
    2 Samuel 9:10;
    Proverbs 28:14

    "ever" - 3
    Leviticus 6:13;
    Psalms 25:15, 51:3

    "perpetual" - 2
    Exodus 30:8;
    Leviticus 6:20

    "continual employment" - 1
    Eze 39:14

    "evermore" - 1
    Psalms 105:4

    "never" - 1
    Isaiah 62:6

    Let us consider this use of the "daily" in the context of the Sanctuary services and of the Priests [Cohen], as we shall see that there was to be the "daily" ministration in the Courtyard [where the "Altar of Burnt Offering [Sacrifice]" was] and there was the "daily" ministration in the Holy Place [where the 7 Branch Candlestick, Table of Shewbread and Altar of Incense were], each with a differing work to be done.

    What is the context of Hebrews 10:11-12 speaking of in its use of the "daily" services, the Courtyard or the Holy Place? It is obvious that the only answer can be, of the Courtyard, since the entire context ["every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices" and "he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever"] deals with the "sacrifice" portion of the "priest", which took place in the Courtyard upon the "altar of burnt offering [sacrifice]" [Leviticus 4:10]. This "sacrifice" portion of the "priest" was/is complete, and fulfills all the type pointing to it, but more was yet to be done further in the work done in the Heavenly Holy Place upon Jesus ascension there [becoming our Great High Priest], and at yet an even further future point, upon His moving into the Heavenly Most Holy from the Heavenly Holy Place.

    Let us consider these things further, the "daily" further and this passage a bit more, since there has been confusion in the past both from without and within.
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2013
  18. MoreCoffee

    MoreCoffee Repentance works.

    How do you understand atonement?

    Like this:

    The Word became flesh for us in order to save us by reconciling us with God, who “loved us and sent his Son to be the expiation for our sins”: “the Father has sent his Son as the Saviour of the world,” and “he was revealed to take away sins” (1 John 4:10; 4:14; 3:5):
    Sick, our nature demanded to be healed; fallen, to be raised up; dead, to rise again. We had lost the possession of the good; it was necessary for it to be given back to us. Closed in the darkness, it was necessary to bring us the light; captives, we awaited a Saviour; prisoners, help; slaves, a liberator. Are these things minor or insignificant? Did they not move God to descend to human nature and visit it, since humanity was in so miserable and unhappy a state? (St. Gregory of Nyssa)​
    By giving up his own Son for our sins, God manifests that his plan for us is one of benevolent love, prior to any merit on our part: “In this is love, not that we loved God but that he loved us and sent his Son to be the expiation for our sins.” God “shows his love for us in that while we were yet sinners Christ died for us.”

    “For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, so by one man’s obedience many will be made righteous.”(Rom 5:19) By his obedience unto death, Jesus accomplished the substitution of the suffering Servant, who “makes himself an offering for sin,” when “he bore the sin of many,” and who “shall make many to be accounted righteous,” for “he shall bear their iniquities.”(Isa 53:10-12) Jesus atoned for our faults and made satisfaction for our sins to the Father.

    It is love “to the end”(John 13:1) that confers on Christ’s sacrifice its value as redemption and reparation, as atonement and satisfaction. He knew and loved us all when he offered his life.(Gal 2:20; Eph 5:2, 25) Now “the love of Christ controls us, because we are convinced that one has died for all; therefore all have died.”(2 Cor 5:14) No man, not even the holiest, was ever able to take on himself the sins of all men and offer himself as a sacrifice for all. The existence in Christ of the divine person of the Son, who at once surpasses and embraces all human persons and constitutes himself as the Head of all mankind, makes possible his redemptive sacrifice for all.

  19. Leuko Petra

    Leuko Petra Following The Lamb

    Yet, Roman doctrine has another "altar", another "priesthood" [not merely the one of 'all believers', but again a class system, initiate and catechumen, all of which need replacing, since they are unable to continue by reason of death], and a 'daily/continual' [even minute by minute, globally] "sacrifice" on this "earth".
  20. MoreCoffee

    MoreCoffee Repentance works.

    What do you mean by 'yet'? Did you read my post?