How do you plan to escape HELL???

[MemeBuster]

I'm not going to the Christian Hell, because, it's not that I choose to reject the Christian god, rather, I am honestly unable to believe in the Christian god.

I am sincerely convinced that Christianity is just another entirely man-made god-worship tradition, and therefore, I simply can not bring myself to honestly believe in the Christian god.

Could I be making a mistake? Sure, but it is certainly an honest mistake and I do not think the Christian god (if he was real) would let me suffer for an honest mistake.


MB.

 

[ShieldOFaith]

Renton.
Are you going to answer this question or are you just going to keep spouting hate filled rhetoric along with SOF?

Woe, woe, woe! Slow your roll, Mel.

I am not spouting 'Hate Filled Rhetoric". I am giving 100% doctrinally correct posts.

You can not escape hell, if you are thrown into it. Don't get thrown into hell in the first place: and you won't have to worry about it. Right?

There is no hate here. Come on! You're better than that.

 

[Vene]

I know! I'll tunnel out!

 

[Sitswithamouse]

How is that hate filled rhetoric? Ghandi DID sleep with underaged girls(apparently as a way to test his chasity, which somehow I don't buy). And he did have weird habits with enemas and drinking his own urine.

The Catholic scandals are for another OP since it is an unrelated question. Homosexuality has hurt the Catholic Church greatly.. But there are sinners in all types of churches, if you goto www.reformation.com you will see it happens just as much in other denominations. The media just likes to target the Catholoic Church more because hollywood hates the CC, and thus it gets more media on their scandals..

It isn't unrelated. I think it is an appropriate question for this subject.
You make a claim that Ghandi is going to hell for his actions. So would that not be true for these priests and any other preist in any other denomination that have been accused and found guilty of those actions.

I am not condeming the catholic church as a whole or it's followers as that would be condeming my parents and my family, I would just like your answer on this matter.

Is any priest of any denomination going to hell for their actions?.

 

[Soul Searcher]

Yes, that is the purging of the saved.. The transition to heaven(Purgatory)..

1st There is no purgatory in the bible. 2nd The saved=all people. Gods plan was/is to save all of man kind. His will is that all be saved.

While is it God's will, he does not force people beyond their free will.

And that of course is not true and not meaningful anyway. As the bible very clearly says every knee shall bend and every tounge shall swear, every creature on earth, under the earth in the seas and in heaven shall praise his name. Now either they are being forced against thier will or they do so of thier own free will it does not matter the result is the same.

When man meets God thier will be no one saying God I don't want to be here, I don't want forgiveness, please send me to hell.

If on the other hand there is this eternal hell that so many preach about then you will have billions of people begging and pleading not to be sent thier and they are forced against thier will, despite thier constant pleads for mercy and tortured without mercy for eternity.

It is clearly the most evil and merciless thing that one could thing of and it totally violates the free will of pretty much everyone as most of those who would go to heaven also do not want to see anyone go to hell.


I also notice that you seemed to have just ignored the fact that the smoke going up forever is not literal and that you converted every man into the saved to suit you choosen belief that people will suffer forever.

 

[KarrieTex]

If you are on actions alone, I can't say yes.

Actions do not keep you from Heaven or allow you to enter it.

If they did not accept Christ as Savior, I can say yes.

 

[MemeBuster]

I'm not going to the Christian Hell, because, it's not that I choose to reject the Christian god, rather, I am honestly unable to believe in the Christian god.

I am sincerely convinced that Christianity is just another entirely man-made god-worship tradition, and therefore, I simply can not bring myself to honestly believe in the Christian god.

Could I be making a mistake? Sure, but it is certainly an honest mistake and I do not think the Christian god (if he was real) would let me suffer for an honest mistake.


MB.

And please don't tell me that I know that the Christian god is the omnipotent creator of the Universe, but I still choose to reject him!!! That just doesn't make any sense.


MB.

 

[stan1980]

Is any priest of any denomination going to hell for their actions.

Apparently they'll get a chance to repent, so you can assume the catholic paedophiles are safe in heaven. Think i'd rather be in hell with Ghandi .

It's a farce i say.

 

[Soul Searcher]

If you are on actions alone, I can't say yes.

Actions do not keep you from Heaven or allow you to enter it.

If they did not accept Christ as Savior, I can say yes.

Can you show me a verse in the bible that says One must accept Christ as savior? Can you even explain what accept Christ means?

Jesus said those who forgive others will be forgiven.
He said those who show mercy shall receive mercy.
He said those who hear his saying and do them are wise and those who hear and do not are foolish.
He also said that there will be many who will cry out to him lord lord and he will say I never knew you.

It seems rather clear to me that from the words of Jesus [as well as common sense] that actions are more important than beliefs.

 

[Sitswithamouse]

Apparently they'll get a chance to repent, so you can assume the catholic paedophiles are safe in heaven. Think i'd rather be in hell with Ghandi .

It's a farce i say.

A farce it is.
All those poor victims may be with Ghandi and me and you because those priests turned them away from God.

sad eh?

 

[quatona]

Actually since Christ is the only way to have eternal life that is questionable. babys still are born with original sin.

Yes, but abortion typically takes place pre-birth.

St. Augustine said that unbaptized babys went to an area that was not hell but not heaven either.

Yes, the stuff theologicans think up if their teachings otherwise don´t make sense either way.

Remember the church didn't really do away with Limbo, since it was never an official teaching in the first place(and Pope Benedict just gave his opinion on it, he wasn't speaking infallibly), but rather it is still an opinion... Its a very difficult question, but you cannot be sure a child goes to heaven just by killing them early.

It´s nice to see how at certain points things become a matter of opinion, even with people who otherwise preach "the Truth".

The OPer whom I responded to is not a Roman Catholic, either.

 

[CriticalMassKitten]

Of course not, Good works are important. The book of James says that Faith without works is dead. Just as works without faith is dead. But a person must have repentance and contrition before his works mean anything.

So... what you're saying is: Good works are great and all, but if you don't repent or worship the same God you're going to hell. That's... pretty much what I was saying before.

Correct me if I'm wrong, of course. I just got up. <-<

 

[dlamberth]

Woe, woe, woe! Slow your roll, Mel.

I am not spouting 'Hate Filled Rhetoric". I am giving 100% doctrinally correct posts.

You can not escape hell, if you are thrown into it. Don't get thrown into hell in the first place: and you won't have to worry about it. Right?

There is no hate here. Come on! You're better than that.

Is it dysfunctional though? I ask because when I read this I had visions of a father beating his children all the while telling them he loves them and that's why he's beating them. It&#8217;s for their own good.

It just seeds like I'm seeing a lot of proof in your posts that your religion, the way you practice it, IS dysfunctional.

.

 

[ShieldOFaith]

It isn't unrelated. I think it is an appropriate question for this subject.
You make a claim that Ghandi is going to hell for his actions. So would that not be true for these priests and any other preist in any other denomination that have been accused and found guilty of those actions.

I am not condeming the catholic church as a whole or it's followers as that would be condeming my parents and my family, I would just like your answer on this matter.

Is any priest of any denomination going to hell for their actions?.

Mel, listen very carefully.

1. Gandhi was a heathen: pedophile or not (he was, but that doesn't matter as far as salvation is concerned.), that is what sends him to hell. He died outside of Christ. He never turned to Jesus Christ and believed on Him for salvation. He died a Hindu/ heathen. Therefore, he is now in hell in torment, and is waiting to be judged and cast into the eternal lake of fire!

2. Roman Catholic priests who have touched little boys or girls may or may not go to hell. If a RC priest molests a young boy (sin) but he is a real born again Christian; he is still heaven bound. Yes, he committed a horrible vile sin, but, that has nothing to do with his salvation. This does not mean that he should not be de-frocked and be thrown into prison, or if the law allowed-- killed! If I were the leader of this country and had the power, I'd hang him by the neck until dead. He would go to heaven, but he would not be allowed to breath air for one second more.

I say this about all child molesters. Not just RC priests, but all those who molest children should be Hung by the neck until dead!!!

And for the record; not all RC priests are child molesters. There are some very awesome men who wear the collar!!! I am very much a protestant, but there are some awesome RC brothers who are kicking demon butt and preaching the Word of God!!! Yes, we have issues with many doctrines, but that does not mean that all RC priests are bad ect.. God loves His Church. All of us. Roman Catholic, Orthodox, and Protestant. All three branches of the tree are loved by GOD! It is HIS Church! Amen!

 

[MemeBuster]

If you are intelligent enough to read the text above and understand it; you must answer the question: "How do you plan to escape HELL???".

The fact that there are people out there who are honestly unableto bring themselves to accept Christianity as true, fundamentally questions the credibility of the concept of Hell and Christianity in general.

I'm such person, I'm honestly convinced that Christianity is just another man-made god-worship tradition and therefore I'm simply unable to bring myself to base my life on Christianity.

Could I be wrong? sure, but I am making an honest mistake and I believe that if the Christian god was real, he would not allow me and most other nonbelievers to suffer, just because of an honest mistake.


MB.

 

[MemeBuster]

Mel, listen very carefully.

1. Gandhi was a heathen: pedophile or not (he was, but that doesn't matter as far as salvation is concerned.), that is what sends him to hell. He died outside of Christ. He never turned to Jesus Christ and believed on Him for salvation. He died a Hindu/ heathen. Therefore, he is now in hell in torment, and is waiting to be judged and cast into the eternal lake of fire!

2. Roman Catholic priests who have touched little boys or girls may or may not go to hell. If a RC priest molests a young boy (sin) but he is a real born again Christian; he is still heaven bound. Yes, he committed a horrible vile sin, but, that has nothing to do with his salvation. This does not mean that he should not be de-frocked and be thrown into prison, or if the law allowed-- killed! If I were the leader of this country and had the power, I'd hang him by the neck until dead. He would go to heaven, but he would not be allowed to breath air for one second more.

I say this about all child molesters. Not just RC priests, but all those who molest children should be Hung by the neck until dead!!!

And for the record; not all RC priests are child molesters. There are some very awesome men who wear the collar!!! I am very much a protestant, but there are some awesome RC brothers who are kicking demon butt and preaching the Word of God!!! Yes, we have issues with many doctrines, but that does not mean that all RC priests are bad ect.. God loves His Church. All of us. Roman Catholic, Orthodox, and Protestant. All three branches of the tree are loved by GOD! It is HIS Church! Amen!

But this just shows you that religion and belief in god are neither necessary nor sufficient for morality.


MB.

 

[cantata]

How is that hate filled rhetoric? Ghandi DID sleep with underaged girls(apparently as a way to test his chasity, which somehow I don't buy). And he did have weird habits with enemas and drinking his own urine.

Firstly, it's Gandhi, not Ghandi. G-a-n-d-h-i.

Now, let's have a look at those links:

http://www.clogo.org/Archives/prd/pers/Ghandi.html
Displays no references or citations. Unable to spell the name of its subject.
Conclusion: Highly suspect source.

http://www.sikhtimes.com/books_020278a.html
Argues that Gandhi did indeed sleep beside nude women, but the only age mentioned is that one girl was nineteen years old; she was not under-aged. The article also concludes, "There is, however, no reason interpret his relationship with women beyond what Mehta has done [that he slept beside these women either for non-sexual health reasons or for spiritual purposes]. Gandhi never concealed the true reasons for his actions. He did everything publicly and spoke uninhibitedly. Even Bose admitted that there was no question of impropriety in the relationships and 'there was something saintly and almost supernatural about him."
Conclusion: Does not argue that Gandhi was a paedophile.

http://www.adamyoshida.com/2004/01/stupid-non-white-men.html
(This is the article that Renton copy-pasted from.) Poorly punctuated. Displays no references or citations; simply makes claims. Puts things in scare quotation marks to suggest that Gandhi was lying about his reasons for sleeping beside nude women, but does not offer any evidence as to why this is believed. Makes unsubstantiated claims about urine-drinking (which, while odd, is hardly evil) and enemas (again, perhaps odd, but not really that bad in the grand scheme of things - human history is rife with weird folk medicine). Also claims that Gandhi recommended that the Jews commit mass suicide; however, according to Wikipedia, what Gandhi actually said was:

If I were a Jew and were born in Germany and earned my livelihood there, I would claim Germany as my home even as the tallest Gentile German might, and challenge him to shoot me or cast me in the dungeon; I would refuse to be expelled or to submit to discriminating treatment. And for doing this I should not wait for the fellow Jews to join me in civil resistance, but would have confidence that in the end the rest were bound to follow my example. If one Jew or all the Jews were to accept the prescription here offered, he or they cannot be worse off than now. And suffering voluntarily undergone will bring them an inner strength and joy [...] the calculated violence of Hitler may even result in a general massacre of the Jews by way of his first answer to the declaration of such hostilities. But if the Jewish mind could be prepared for voluntary suffering, even the massacre I have imagined could be turned into a day of thanksgiving and joy that Jehovah had wrought deliverance of the race even at the hands of the tyrant. For to the God-fearing, death has no terror.

He later retracted this statement, at least in part. He did not encourage suicide, but peaceful resistance.
Conclusion: Dishonest and unreliable source.

http://www.straightdope.com/columns/040813.html
Is a question-and-answer page where the answer actually notes that Gandhi was pretty much absolved of any particular wrongdoing other than possibly failing to properly consider the attachment that the young women might have felt to him. It points out that there is no evidence that Gandhi ever slept with any under-aged girls.
Conclusion: Does not support Renton's argument that Gandhi was a paedophile.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1316/is_v19/ai_5167040/pg_3
One of the few decent sources that Renton provided. Cites references and gives a detailed account of the press coverage of Gandhi's sex scandals. Strongly suggests that Gandhi was a flawed character (I can just see the headlines: HOMO SAPIENS IN "NOT PERFECT" SHOCKER). However, does not describe any of the women as under-aged.
Conclusion: A strong source on Gandhi's rather dubious relationship with some young women, but does not support Renton's argument that he was a paedophile.

http://www.redhotpawn.com/board/showthread.php?threadid=54658
A forum started by a random person on the Internet. No citations, and the person has clearly read (only?) the article from AdamYoshida.com that Renton quoted above.
Conclusion: Not an authority, and based on a discredited source.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghandi#Criticism
Demonstrates that Renton can't spell Gandhi. Also not a link to the portion of the article that Renton seems to be interested in. However, I gave him the benefit of the doubt and had a good look for some dirt on ol' Mahatma. Has nothing about any sex scandals, and quotes Gandhi (as I noted above) on his advocacy of peaceful non-resistance for Jews in Nazi Germany, but does not not support claims that he encouraged mass suicide.
Conclusion: Does not support Renton's conclusions.

http://forums.plentyoffish.com/datingPosts4167518.aspx
A reposting of the Straight Dope question/answer page discussed above.
Conclusion: Duplicate of material which, it has already been argued, does not support Renton's conclusions.

http://www.discussanything.com/forums/t104817
404 Not Found.
Conclusion: Useless.

So basically, Renton has provided us with no good evidence that Gandhi a) was a paedophile, b) encouraged the Jews to commit mass-suicide, or c) drank his own urine or performed enemas on himself or young women. Surprisingly enough, several sources suggest that Gandhi was less than perfect. Well, there's a surprise! As a Christian, Renton should know that no one is perfect. Despite his flaws, as human beings go, Gandhi was, on the whole, a pretty good one. Renton has yet to provide substantial evidence to the contrary.

 

[cantata]

Actually since Christ is the only way to have eternal life that is questionable. babys still are born with original sin. St. Augustine said that unbaptized babys went to an area that was not hell but not heaven either. Remember the church didn't really do away with Limbo, since it was never an official teaching in the first place(and Pope Benedict just gave his opinion on it, he wasn't speaking infallibly), but rather it is still an opinion... Its a very difficult question, but you cannot be sure a child goes to heaven just by killing them early.

You think that it's possible that God sends aborted foetuses to Hell? What about all the pregnancies that spontaneously terminate?

God really doesn't sound very nice.

 

[ShieldOFaith]

The fact that there are people out there who are honestly unableto bring themselves to accept Christianity as true, fundamentally questions the credibility of the concept of Hell and Christianity in general.

I'm such person, I'm honestly convinced that Christianity is just another man-made god-worship tradition and therefore I'm simply unable to bring myself to base my life on Christianity.

Could I be wrong? sure, but I am making an honest mistake and I believe that if the Christian god was real, he would not allow me and most other nonbelievers to suffer, just because of an honest mistake.


MB.

Mem, read this very carefully and think on it.

[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]12 There is a way that seems right to a man, But its end is the way of death. --Proverbs 14

It does not matter what you think GOD will or will not do. It matters what HE has already said.

Jesus Christ has already said this:

[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]3 Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God." --John 3

[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica] 8 Then Peter, filled with the Holy Spirit, said to them, "Rulers of the people and elders of Israel: 9 If we this day are judged for a good deed done to a helpless man, by what means he has been made well, 10 let it be known to you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom you crucified, whom God raised from the dead, by Him this man stands here before you whole. 11 This is the 'stone which was rejected by you builders, which has become the chief cornerstone.' 12 Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved." --Acts 4

If you do not become born again by the Spirit of God; you will be cast into the lake of fire. There is nothing that anyone can do to help you if you do not believe on Jesus Christ for your salvation. God has made salvation very clear and easy for us. But if you fail to hear Him and follow Him, you will be cast into hell.

I will not sugar coat it for you. I can not.

I will pray for you.
[/FONT]

 

[Soul Searcher]

1. Gandhi was a heathen: pedophile or not (he was, but that doesn't matter as far as salvation is concerned.), that is what sends him to hell. He died outside of Christ. He never turned to Jesus Christ and believed on Him for salvation. He died a Hindu/ heathen. Therefore, he is now in hell in torment, and is waiting to be judged and cast into the eternal lake of fire!

If what you say is true why is there a judgment at all? It sounds like you are saying that any who do not believe the right way are going to hell before they are judged then will go to the so called eternal lake of fire where they will continue to suffer forever. So what is the purpose of judgment, sounds like in your view they are all guilty, all judgments will be the same and the results will be the same. There is no logic, no justice, no mercy in such a view. Sounds like you have made a God in your image hating all those who disagree with you.