How do you plan to escape HELL???

[MemeBuster]

[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]If you do not become born again by the Spirit of God; you will be cast into the lake of fire. There is nothing that anyone can do to help you if you do not believe on Jesus Christ for your salvation. God has made salvation very clear and easy for us. But if you fail to hear Him and follow Him, you will be cast into hell.[/FONT]

I can certainly say the words and go through the ritual, but I would not be honest to myself. I'm honestly convinced that the Christianity is just another man-made god-worship tradition. To me, the idea of a man-god who sacrificed himself to himself to appease himself and the whole notion of an eternal lake of fire just seems incredible and myth like.

Could I be making a mistake? sure, but it would be an honest mistake.

The question is, why would a god create this world in such a way that people will suffer eternally for their honest mistakes? To me the simplest answer is that the whole notions of god and Hell are man-made and that is why they do not make much sense.

Do you think it makes sense for the Christian god to create this world in such a way that people will suffer eternally for their honest mistakes?

Think about it.


MB.

 

[Restube]

I can certainly say the words and go through the ritual, but I would not be honest to myself. I'm honestly convinced that the Christianity is just another man-made god-worship tradition. To me, the idea of a man-god who sacrificed himself to himself to appease himself and the whole notion of an eternal lake of fire just seems incredible and myth like.

Could I be making a mistake? sure, but it would be an honest mistake.

The question is, why would a god create this world in such a way that people will suffer eternally for their honest mistakes? To me the simplest answer is that the whole notions of god and Hell are man-made and that is why they do not make much sense.

Do you think it makes sense for the Christian god to create this world in such a way that people will suffer eternally for their honest mistakes?

Think about it.


MB.

I don't think god will let people suffer if they honestly can not believe in him. That would be unlike god.

 

[stan1980]

I'd hang him by the neck until dead. He would go to heaven, but he would not be allowed to breath air for one second more.

Presumably, as you wouldn't be able to genuinely repent for this act which you see as just, you would go to hell as well.

 

[cantata]

He would go to heaven, but he would not be allowed to breath air for one second more.

Is heaven better than life on earth? If so, wouldn't a prolonged term in prison be a better punishment than being whizzed straight up to heaven and skipping out on an earthly punishment?

 

[Maren]

Firstly, it's Gandhi, not Ghandi. G-a-n-d-h-i.

Now, let's have a look at those links:

http://www.clogo.org/Archives/prd/pers/Ghandi.html
Displays no references or citations. Unable to spell the name of its subject.
Conclusion: Highly suspect source.

http://www.sikhtimes.com/books_020278a.html
Argues that Gandhi did indeed sleep beside nude women, but the only age mentioned is that one girl was nineteen years old; she was not under-aged. The article also concludes, "There is, however, no reason interpret his relationship with women beyond what Mehta has done [that he slept beside these women either for non-sexual health reasons or for spiritual purposes]. Gandhi never concealed the true reasons for his actions. He did everything publicly and spoke uninhibitedly. Even Bose admitted that there was no question of impropriety in the relationships and 'there was something saintly and almost supernatural about him."
Conclusion: Does not argue that Gandhi was a paedophile.

http://www.adamyoshida.com/2004/01/stupid-non-white-men.html
(This is the article that Renton copy-pasted from.) Poorly punctuated. Displays no references or citations; simply makes claims. Puts things in scare quotation marks to suggest that Gandhi was lying about his reasons for sleeping beside nude women, but does not offer any evidence as to why this is believed. Makes unsubstantiated claims about urine-drinking (which, while odd, is hardly evil) and enemas (again, perhaps odd, but not really that bad in the grand scheme of things - human history is rife with weird folk medicine). Also claims that Gandhi recommended that the Jews commit mass suicide; however, according to Wikipedia, what Gandhi actually said was:

He later retracted this statement, at least in part. He did not encourage suicide, but peaceful resistance.
Conclusion: Dishonest and unreliable source.

http://www.straightdope.com/columns/040813.html
Is a question-and-answer page where the answer actually notes that Gandhi was pretty much absolved of any particular wrongdoing other than possibly failing to properly consider the attachment that the young women might have felt to him. It points out that there is no evidence that Gandhi ever slept with any under-aged girls.
Conclusion: Does not support Renton's argument that Gandhi was a paedophile.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1316/is_v19/ai_5167040/pg_3
One of the few decent sources that Renton provided. Cites references and gives a detailed account of the press coverage of Gandhi's sex scandals. Strongly suggests that Gandhi was a flawed character (I can just see the headlines: HOMO SAPIENS IN "NOT PERFECT" SHOCKER). However, does not describe any of the women as under-aged.
Conclusion: A strong source on Gandhi's rather dubious relationship with some young women, but does not support Renton's argument that he was a paedophile.

http://www.redhotpawn.com/board/showthread.php?threadid=54658
A forum started by a random person on the Internet. No citations, and the person has clearly read (only?) the article from AdamYoshida.com that Renton quoted above.
Conclusion: Not an authority, and based on a discredited source.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghandi#Criticism
Demonstrates that Renton can't spell Gandhi. Also not a link to the portion of the article that Renton seems to be interested in. However, I gave him the benefit of the doubt and had a good look for some dirt on ol' Mahatma. Has nothing about any sex scandals, and quotes Gandhi (as I noted above) on his advocacy of peaceful non-resistance for Jews in Nazi Germany, but does not not support claims that he encouraged mass suicide.
Conclusion: Does not support Renton's conclusions.

http://forums.plentyoffish.com/datingPosts4167518.aspx
A reposting of the Straight Dope question/answer page discussed above.
Conclusion: Duplicate of material which, it has already been argued, does not support Renton's conclusions.

http://www.discussanything.com/forums/t104817
404 Not Found.
Conclusion: Useless.

So basically, Renton has provided us with no good evidence that Gandhi a) was a paedophile, b) encouraged the Jews to commit mass-suicide, or c) drank his own urine or performed enemas on himself or young women. Surprisingly enough, several sources suggest that Gandhi was less than perfect. Well, there's a surprise! As a Christian, Renton should know that no one is perfect. Despite his flaws, as human beings go, Gandhi was, on the whole, a pretty good one. Renton has yet to provide substantial evidence to the contrary.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to cantata again.

Thanks for the research.

 

[Soul Searcher]

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to cantata again.

Thanks for the research.

Got it covered

 

[cantata]

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to cantata again.

Thanks for the research.

Got it covered

Thanks, you guys!

 

[The Bellman]

Ghandi sex sources on his sleeping with young women

http://www.clogo.org/Archives/prd/pers/Ghandi.html

http://www.sikhtimes.com/books_020278a.html

http://www.adamyoshida.com/2004/01/s...white-men.html


http://www.straightdope.com/columns/040813.html

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m...v19/ai_5167040

http://www.redhotpawn.com/board/show...threadid=54658

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghandi#Criticism

http://forums.plentyoffish.com/datingPosts4167518.aspx


http://www.discussanything.com/forum...d.php?t=104817

Most of which are spurious. The more accurate of the sources above confirm what has long been known - that Gandhi slept with young women and did not have sexual contact with them. Not a single one of his bed-partners has ever alleged or claimed any sort of sexual contact with him.

Note that I posted this before I saw Cantata's excellent post #261. Reps to you, Cantata, for doing what I didn't have time to do (and wouldn't have done as well as you did, anyway).

But hey, any sort of allegations and attacks are fair - after all, he wasn't a Christian.

 

[Sitswithamouse]

Great points Cantata.
Reps on the way.

 

[dlamberth]

In some of these threads, like this one, I feel like I'm watching both of what I take as the worse and what I take as the best of Christianity to emerge into the light for us to examine. I feel that this is a good thing for us to see and talk about. It's all been good.

.

 

[beegy]

How do I plan to escape hell?
Easy, I don't..because there isn't..

 

[ShieldOFaith]

How do I plan to escape hell?
Easy, I don't..because there isn't..

God the Son (Jesus Christ) talks quite a bit about hell. He was the One who really explained it thoroughly. So you are calling Him a liar if you say that hell doesn't exist.

Not a good thing to do. Not safe or wise.

[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica] 41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: 42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: 43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. 44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? 45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. 46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal. --Matt. 25

Everlasting punishment!!! Not a place anyone wants to go.

Once again, either you or JESUS are wrong. I'll say you.
[/FONT]

 

[Soul Searcher]

When you drop that literal notion of everlasting, you may start to see some light.

 

[beegy]

You have a cross at the top of your bar. This should symbolize you are a Christian. If this is the case, then you are either lying (i.e. you are not a Christian) or you are calling Jesus a liar. This is not good in any direction.

God the Son (Jesus Christ) talks quite a bit about hell. He was the One who really explained it thoroughly. So you are calling Him a liar if you say that hell doesn't exist.

Not a good thing to do. Not safe or wise.

I am sorry to upset you to the point that you call me a liar for calling myself a christian..Because I don't want to upset anyone else I will remove the cross from the top..I have a personal relationship with my lord that leaves no room for arguing what the bible says. I understand that when a person doesn't know someone else they are quick to judge without knowing what another may have been through, therefore I hold no hard feelings toward you..God Bless
[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica][/FONT]

 

[ShieldOFaith]

When you drop that literal notion of everlasting, you may start to see some light.

No! God is not an idiot, nor does He stutter!

He said everlasting and He means everlasting.

 

[cantata]

I am sorry to upset you to the point that you call me a liar for calling myself a christian..Because I don't want to upset anyone else I will remove the cross from the top..I have a personal relationship with my lord that leaves no room for arguing what the bible says. I understand that when a person doesn't know someone else they are quick to judge without knowing what another may have been through, therefore I hold no hard feelings toward you..God Bless

If you identify as a Christian, I think you should keep that symbol There are lots of Christians here who don't believe in Hell. Don't worry about what a few angry people say. Most of us would rather you express yourself as you choose, even if certain people find your beliefs unconventional.

 

[Nathan Poe]

I am sorry to upset you to the point that you call me a liar for calling myself a christian..Because I don't want to upset anyone else I will remove the cross from the top..

Might I give some advice? Put the Cross back. You shouldn't have to hide your religious beliefs to appease the likes of ShieldOFaith.

 

[beegy]

Thank you Cantata, and yes I do identify myself as a christian ,and a believer....It took me many years to reach the place that I am now in my relationship with God..Some of those years I was held to a very legalistic religion that taught me that as a woman I was in submission not only to my husband, but to the men leaders in church..To make a very long story short, I finally took a stand and said that no person would ever come between me and God again..I am at peace with myself now and have gained so much faith, and I think He is pleased...

 

[Soul Searcher]

No! God is not an idiot, nor does He stutter!

He said everlasting and He means everlasting.

Umm God said?

You do know that Jesus was not speaking English don't you? That our bibles are translated from other languages? That Jesus spoke mostly in parables?

Did you also know that in some cases the word forever is used in the bible when speaking of a term as short as 3 days? See the story of Jonah for an example. The word most nearly means age or unspecified period of time usually long but related to the subject at hand, not eternity, the word punishment actually refers to correction not revenge. We also see later in the NT that a day with God is as a thousand years and a thousand years as a day which should make it clear that we are not to take these time frames literally.

Then of course the passage you used to show punishment shows that those who are saved or punished is not based at all on what they believe but of what they have done which defeats your agruement anyway.

No one will be punished for eternity. Such a thing would go against everything that Jesus taught and it is really sad that so many people fail to see something so clear.

 

[Beanieboy]

Thank you Cantata, and yes I do identify myself as a christian ,and a believer....It took me many years to reach the place that I am now in my relationship with God..Some of those years I was held to a very legalistic religion that taught me that as a woman I was in submission not only to my husband, but to the men leaders in church..To make a very long story short, I finally took a stand and said that no person would ever come between me and God again..I am at peace with myself now and have gained so much faith, and I think He is pleased...

beegy
I am a former Christian - I went to church, prayed, read the bible, talked to God, spoke in tongues, etc. I was told by SOF and another poster that I was never a True Christian (TM), or else, I would still be one.

There are plenty of Christians here whom they have claimed to not be a True Christian (TM) as well, those who serve the Lord, but simply don't think that SOF is THE authority on the bible, or, sane, as far as I can tell.

Remember this - it won't be SOF on the throne of Judgement (Thank Buddha!), so you don't have to answer to any man about whether or not you are a Christian - only to yourself and God.