How do you overcome bitterness toward God?

[mandelduke]

I have been reading scripture. I have only been quoting scripture since the first post. I have said little about my personal struggles that God is bringing on me. I am simply quoting the Bible and the book of Job, more precisely.

I don't see any mention of God being "loving" or anything of the sort when I study the book of Job. Even his reply to Job was far from loving; he essentially just told Job to shut up; I'm God, you're not, be quiet. (I probably would too, if a whirlwind started yelling at me.)

Have you ever thought just maybe you are putting this on yourself? I do not believe you, your words are not confused they are evil. You are trying to hinder people’s faith, may I ask why.

 

[simply christian]

A 20 year old son living with his parents and flipping burgers doesn't understand why his father keeps working on him to go to college or go to a trade school. Life is good. He's earning enough money to pay his car payment, gas, insurance, and his entertainment. Why would he drop the good life to go do something hard like that? So Dad begins to take away privileges, make the nest a little less comfortable so his son will be willing to move on to maturity. Son doesn't like the changes, thinks Dad's being a jerk, doesn't understand the vision of his future that Dad sees. Over time, it gets bad enough that Dad feels his only choice is to send his son out to fend for himself, to learn first-hand what it takes. Son is cast out and starts to learn life the hard way. With each hardship, his anger towards his father grows. Son never does figure it out. He eventually finds a humble little corner to exist in and ekes out his existence in manual labor, never realizing the need to grow up and work toward the future, to become a man.

This life is but one big training ground. It is not our destiny. It is not truly our life, it's where we're to learn to trust the disciplines that the Father puts us through because only He knows where we need to be far down the road, in eternity and what He sees for us - Proverbs 3:5.

If you want to be angry at God for doing what father's do, that's up to you.

So God making us sick, broke, killing our kids and making us miserable is what "father's do"? My father has never done that garbage to me.

 

[simply christian]

Have you ever thought just maybe you are putting this on yourself? I do not believe you, your words are not confused they are evil. You are trying to hinder people’s faith, may I ask why.

Then do not respond to my topics anymore. I won't miss you, with that rotten attitude.

Goodbye.

 

[simply christian]

BTW, if you're not of the word of faith doctrine, don't bother responding. I'm very familiar with the religious ideas presented and honestly, I'm not interested in hearing them. What I am interested in hearing is from those who are of the WoF background so we can make some sense out of this.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

Do you want to love life my brother?
Do you want to see good days?

The cure for depression (hating life).

1 Peter 3:10-11
10. "For the person who wants to love life and see good days must keep his tongue from evil and his lips from speaking deceit.
11. He must turn away from evil and do good. He must seek peace and pursue it.

 

[simply christian]

Do you want to love life my brother?
Do you want to see good days?

The cure for depression (hating life).

1 Peter 3:10-11
10. "For the person who wants to love life and see good days must keep his tongue from evil and his lips from speaking deceit.
11. He must turn away from evil and do good. He must seek peace and pursue it.

Jesus told his followers that he who hates his life to the end will keep it for eternity. Jesus wants us to hate our lives.

 

[jamadan]

BTW, if you're not of the word of faith doctrine, don't bother responding. I'm very familiar with the religious ideas presented and honestly, I'm not interested in hearing them. What I am interested in hearing is from those who are of the WoF background so we can make some sense out of this.

I'm not wof. But I'm convinced you're speaking directly from the pit of hell. Whether or not you intended, your attitude and rhetoric makes you a wolf in sheeps clothes. What happened to you who were called by God to allow your actions to destroy His Kingdom? That's a rhetorical question for you to think on. I don't intend to continue in a conversation when you really seem to have your own agenda that doesn't include seekinv help.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

I would suggest we stop trying to help this person who obviously is a dissembler. He is just playing games with you and using you for his own amusement.

Do not feed the trolls.

dissembler

dissembler n : a person who professes beliefs and opinions that they do not hold [syn: hypocrite, phony, phoney, pretender]

 

[JESUSIAM]

I struggled with bitterness for many years.... The more I searched for answers, the more complicated it seemed. Then one day it dawned on me, I had forgiven everyone except myself. Once I forgave myself I was set free.

 

[ABlessedAnomaly]

A 20 year old son living with his parents and flipping burgers doesn't understand why his father keeps working on him to go to college or go to a trade school. Life is good. He's earning enough money to pay his car payment, gas, insurance, and his entertainment. Why would he drop the good life to go do something hard like that? So Dad begins to take away privileges, make the nest a little less comfortable so his son will be willing to move on to maturity. Son doesn't like the changes, thinks Dad's being a jerk, doesn't understand the vision of his future that Dad sees. Over time, it gets bad enough that Dad feels his only choice is to send his son out to fend for himself, to learn first-hand what it takes. Son is cast out and starts to learn life the hard way. With each hardship, his anger towards his father grows. Son never does figure it out. He eventually finds a humble little corner to exist in and ekes out his existence in manual labor, never realizing the need to grow up and work toward the future, to become a man.

This life is but one big training ground. It is not our destiny. It is not truly our life, it's where we're to learn to trust the disciplines that the Father puts us through because only He knows where we need to be far down the road, in eternity and what He sees for us - Proverbs 3:5.

If you want to be angry at God for doing what father's do, that's up to you.

I have to ask about people like, well let's take a few:
(1) James Cameron -- not flipping burgers by a long shot.
(2) Hugh Hefner -- he never had "hard times" as described above.
(3) Angelina Jolie -- not much of a troubled life as described.
(4) Thomas Edison -- quite a scientists.

See, these are all atheists who by the story given above should have all seen such hard times, sliding downward until they got on the right track. But they didn't. They have great successes and to the world's standards, great maturity.

See stories like above are invented to propogate this idea that God is behind all the bad things that happen to people to teach them something and pull them toward Chrisitanity.

But God has a much better way to draw people to Himself. He calls. His presence is so overwhelmingly full of grace and mercy and love that people feel the call. But in this world, we have been given free will. God has given us the unique ability to choose: to choose Him or to reject Him. He doesn't contrive false situations to "force" us to one day try to climb out of our problems toward him.

I had no such problems in my life. Grew up Catholic and then rejected God. I wanted to be atheist, but could only get to agnostic -- because He kept sitting on the edge of my bed and talking with me. He kept calling. He wouldn't leave me alone. But He made it clear that it was my choice -- that if I really wanted atheism it was my choice. But His love won out. He called, I responded. He didn't make me poor. He didn't give me some disease to overcome; no handicaps.

He didn't need to hurt me. His Love was powerful enough of a call to capture me. Perhaps for the list above, they really wanted to walk in the curse; to strive against God's favor. But He didn't break Cameron's legs; didn't inflict Hefner with polio to get him to turn. He simply calls. It is our choice to answer.

Even the famous athiest Richard Dawkins admitted that there might be a God, but that he refuses to believe in one choosing instead to believe in science. To him it is more compelling. And to my knowledge, God has not been a "jerk" to Richard. No, my bible indicates that God loves him and wishes that he doesn't perish.

God is Love. He does NOT use the curse to achieve His will.

 

[simply christian]

I'm not wof. But I'm convinced you're speaking directly from the pit of hell. Whether or not you intended, your attitude and rhetoric makes you a wolf in sheeps clothes. What happened to you who were called by God to allow your actions to destroy His Kingdom? That's a rhetorical question for you to think on. I don't intend to continue in a conversation when you really seem to have your own agenda that doesn't include seekinv help.

If you're not WoF then I have no interest in what you have to say about this. I specifically came to this forum to get help from Word of Faith believers only. If I wanted to hear the standard religious answers, I'd post elsewhere on this site. Standard religious answers never satisfied me, even as a child.

 

[jamadan]

I have to ask about people like, well let's take a few:
(1) James Cameron -- not flipping burgers by a long shot.
(2) Hugh Hefner -- he never had "hard times" as described above.
(3) Angelina Jolie -- not much of a troubled life as described.
(4) Thomas Edison -- quite a scientists.

See, these are all atheists who by the story given above should have all seen such hard times, sliding downward until they got on the right track. But they didn't. They have great successes and to the world's standards, great maturity.

See stories like above are invented to propogate this idea that God is behind all the bad things that happen to people to teach them something and pull them toward Chrisitanity.

But God has a much better way to draw people to Himself. He calls. His presence is so overwhelmingly full of grace and mercy and love that people feel the call. But in this world, we have been given free will. God has given us the unique ability to choose: to choose Him or to reject Him. He doesn't contrive false situations to "force" us to one day try to climb out of our problems toward him.

I had no such problems in my life. Grew up Catholic and then rejected God. I wanted to be atheist, but could only get to agnostic -- because He kept sitting on the edge of my bed and talking with me. He kept calling. He wouldn't leave me alone. But He made it clear that it was my choice -- that if I really wanted atheism it was my choice. But His love won out. He called, I responded. He didn't make me poor. He didn't give me some disease to overcome; no handicaps.

He didn't need to hurt me. His Love was powerful enough of a call to capture me. Perhaps for the list above, they really wanted to walk in the curse; to strive against God's favor. But He didn't break Cameron's legs; didn't inflict Hefner with polio to get him to turn. He simply calls. It is our choice to answer.

Even the famous athiest Richard Dawkins admitted that there might be a God, but that he refuses to believe in one choosing instead to believe in science. To him it is more compelling. And to my knowledge, God has not been a "jerk" to Richard. No, my bible indicates that God loves him and wishes that he doesn't perish.

God is Love. He does NOT use the curse to achieve His will.

So a father should just do everything for his son? Not occasionally step back so his son can see that even if it's difficult, that he can do things for himself and that makes him a stronger person? We shouldn't consider it pure joy when we face trials of many kinds?

There are children who feel like Dad brought me into the world and so he needs to protect me from all harm and all problems, make life easy for me. That's what I'm hearing on this thread. Soldiers are put through all kinds of hardships to prepare them for battle, why should we expect any less?

 

[Maximillia]

I doubt you are bitter toward The Lord.
People are angry at some 'perceived' injustice then blame God.
If you find that you experience true bitterness you need to know that other forces are at play here and need to get rid of them pronto. These dark clowns sap your joy and twist your mind into thinking that God is to blame for everything.
Don't let them get away with this.

 

[Scottmcc1]

I have

I don't see any mention of God being "loving" or anything of the sort when I study the book of Job. Even his reply to Job was far from loving; he essentially just told Job to shut up; I'm God, you're not, be quiet. (I probably would too, if a whirlwind started yelling at me.)

You must address James 5:11 "We count those blessed who endured. You have heard of the endurance of Job and have seen the outcome of the Lord’s dealings, that the Lord is full of compassion and is merciful." when considering Job. James is inspired by God just as Job is.

 

[ABlessedAnomaly]

So a father should just do everything for his son? Not occasionally step back so his son can see that even if it's difficult, that he can do things for himself and that makes him a stronger person? We shouldn't consider it pure joy when we face trials of many kinds?

There are children who feel like Dad brought me into the world and so he needs to protect me from all harm and all problems, make life easy for me. That's what I'm hearing on this thread. Soldiers are put through all kinds of hardships to prepare them for battle, why should we expect any less?

In your analogy you get to the point where....

Over time, it gets bad enough that Dad feels his only choice is to send his son out to fend for himself, to learn first-hand what it takes. Son is cast out and starts to learn life the hard way. With each hardship, his anger towards his father grows. Son never does figure it out.

Can you tell me where Father God casts us out?

The problem with making an analogy between Father God and human fathers is that human fathers fail. God never fails. Nor does God use the means that humans use to solve problems.

Further the tone of the thread, and even simply christian's answer to your post, is one of God will hurt us to teach us something. This simply is not true. (Nor is it true of human fathers: we wouldn't give our kids sickness or disease.)

So, do I do everything for my sons? Of course not. They would not grow and mature if I did. But do I cast them out into the wild? No. Do I chastise them? Yes. Do I hurt them? No. Sure they may feel emotionally hurt because I don't see things their way all the time, but I don't beat them and make them sick to prove my point -- I simply discuss and love and show and tell. When they get over themselves they usually see my point. (And that is not to say that I am always right -- for I am human, a trait that God does not share with me.)

So we actually have some agreement. What I was pointing out is where the trials come from, where the tribulations are created, what role God takes in the things that hurt us.

 

[simply christian]

You must address James 5:11 "We count those blessed who endured. You have heard of the endurance of Job and have seen the outcome of the Lord’s dealings, that the Lord is full of compassion and is merciful." when considering Job. James is inspired by God just as Job is.

In Job, GOD himself spoke. James was just James writing what he thought was correct. Similar to how Paul said at times, "This is my opinion".

When God spoke in the OT, it was clear. It said, "Thus saith the LORD" or "The LORD said..." not "Here is what I think of the old testament..."

How you can try and put God's words himself against the words of flawed, sinful men is beyond me.

 

[Scottmcc1]

Simple Christian,

I have this question to ask. Why do you come to Word Of Faith forum to ask us questions if you do not accept the Word of God (Bible of 66 books) the way we do?

From my point of view, if you don't accept the Bible as authoritative then my trying to reason with you is pointless.

2 Peter 1:20 But know this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture is a matter of one's own interpretation,

2 Timothy 3:16
All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness;

 

[simply christian]

Simple Christian,

I have this question to ask. Why do you come to Word Of Faith forum to ask us questions if you do not accept the Word of God (Bible of 66 books) the way we do?

I do accept it as authoritative. Probably more than you, in reality. Why do I say that? Simple.

You disagree with God causing Job's suffering, but the bible itself says that. God himself says that. But you deny this. I don't like it either. It's enough to want me to turn from my faith completely. But there is no denying that is what it says.

There are a number of atrocities in the bible that cause me to disbelieve in a good god. But that does not mean I reject what it says. I do not. Rather than ignoring or pretending the bad parts are not there, I wrestle with them and try to make sense of them. That is why I am here; to hopefully gain insight into why a so-called "good God" could authorize and commit such evil, in light of WoF teachings that deny God ever does evil. Does that make sense to you?

From my point of view, if you don't accept the Bible as authoritative then my trying to reason with you is pointless.

2 Peter 1:20 But know this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture is a matter of one's own interpretation,

2 Timothy 3:16
All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness;

I agree, but I am not denying the bible's "harder" messages. You are.

As for Timothy 3:16, that was referring to the old testament, not the new since it was not written yet. Context is key, remember.

James is not a "prophecy" either. James was an epistle written to the tribes of Israel scattered abroad.

 

[vocalyocal]

Doesn't Satan work for God though? In the old testament, Satan did as God commanded. In Job, Satan was doing whatever Yahweh allowed him to. Doesn't that prove that Satan is just doing what God wants?

How am I not supposed to be bitter towards God when he is sending Satan to attack me?

what your forgetting is there is a new covenant, In the new covenant Jesus has won the victory over all the works of the devil, 9 times out of 10 the devil just convinces you that he has victory over you and you simply accept it.

rebuke the lies of the devil and simply don't believe them no matter how real they seem

think of these battles as what you would see witnessing a young girl being spiritually attacked through anorexia

you can see this poor girl is skin on bones but the devil has her believing she's fat........these are the same lies he tries to convince us of, only with the anorexic girl its easily discernable

the devil attacks us thoroughly with LIES, its only when we believe these lies do they begin to have power, I suggest Ephesians 6:10 start putting on the whole armor of God

and take heart for the battle has already been won, you merely have to walk in the victory and stop believing the lies

 

[Scottmcc1]

Scott - I have this question to ask. Why do you come to Word Of Faith forum to ask us questions if you do not accept the Word of God (Bible of 66 books) the way we do?


Simple Christian - I do accept it as authoritative. Probably more than you, in reality.

Scott - According to James 5:11 you are missing something in your analysis.
What are you missing?

Simple Christian - That was James' opinion.

Speaking of James Simple Christian said - How you can try and put God's words himself against the words of flawed, sinful men is beyond me.

Scott - You don't accept James as Scripture. And you don't accept 2 Timothy 3:16 as Scripture.

Simple Christian said - As for Timothy 3:16, that was referring to the old testament, not the new since it was not written yet. Context is key, remember.

Scott - 2 Tim 3:16 says all Scripture not just OT. What it is saying, if there is Scripture its is authoritative.

Scott - So you say you accept the Bible/Scripture as authoritative but you speak differently. You do not accept James or 2 Timothy as authoritative. James 5:11 speaks of Job and you reject it. That is not the attitude of one that takes the Bible as authoritative!