How do you overcome bitterness toward God?

[jamadan]

I've asked before: How has anything I mentioned from the book of Job been misquoted? I completely agree that the devil, and many men, can misquote scripture. However, the scripture itself declares that God is the one responsible for afflicting us. How do you reconcile this with Word of Faith teachings? I am unable to.

It does not say God afflicted Job. It says God agreed to let Satan afflict Job. Very different thing! That's the twisted lie Satan is poisoning you with.

 

[simply christian]

It does not say God afflicted Job. It says God agreed to let Satan afflict Job. Very different thing! That's the twisted lie Satan is poisoning you with.

Actually it does. God himself says,

'And the Lord said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil? and still he holdeth fast his integrity, although thou movedst me against him, to destroy him without cause.'

The text here (Job 2:3) actually has God himself saying that Satan made God attack Job. Satan was able to persuade God to let him sift him like wheat. That's a scary thought.

Both times, also, we see that Satan was given PERMISSION BY GOD to afflict Job. That is no different than a mob boss sending out a hitman to kill someone. Ok, maybe the mob boss did not pull the trigger, but he still authorized the killing. If God gave permission to Satan, then he effectively did it to Job.

This is further seen in Job 42:11, when the bible says,

'Then came there unto him all his brethren, and all his sisters, and all they that had been of his acquaintance before, and did eat bread with him in his house: and they bemoaned him, and comforted him over all the evil that the Lord had brought upon him: every man also gave him a piece of money, and every one an earring of gold.'

Job himself even said that we receive both good and evil from the hand of God. (Job 2:10)

'But he said unto her, Thou speakest as one of the foolish women speaketh. What? shall we receive good at the hand of God, and shall we not receive evil? In all this did not Job sin with his lips.'

Notice, Job did not sin by saying that.

Believe me, I would love it if you were correct about this. I wish this were not so. Why would I want to serve such a God, that afflicts me, as he did Job? It is like being in an abusive relationship with someone whom you love, but they afflict you with evil and hardships.

 

[Abana]

As I stated in my post, the literal understanding of Job 1:8 is different from what most other translations say:

And Jehovah saith unto the Adversary, `Hast thou set thy heart against My servant Job because there is none like him in the land, a man perfect and upright, fearing God, and turning aside from evil?' (Young's Literal Translation)

And Jehovah said to Satan, Have you set your heart against My servant Job, because there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and upright man, one who fears God and turns away from evil? (Modern King James)
​

Albert Barnes says that this is the correct translation and wrote, "that it means more than merely to observe or to look at - since it is abundantly manifest from the following verses that Satan "had" attentively considered Job, and had been desirous of injuring him"

Satan already had Job in his rifle scope and was looking for an opportunity to destroy him. So what does he do? He accuses God of buying Job's worship through His blessings, thus castigating God's character in front of the rest of the universe.

So God could either destroy Satan right there, thus continuing to leave doubt in the mind of the rest of the angels that perhaps Satan was right (and Satan would have won his objective) or let Satan prove his case and lose (which he did).

Satan acknowledges, unlike so many people, that God is the one blessing and protecting His people. Satan has better insight into God's ways (and thus tries to twist them) than many Christians I know.

Who is Albert Barnes and why should what he has to say mean anything to me?

 

[Abana]

It does not say God afflicted Job. It says God agreed to let Satan afflict Job. Very different thing! That's the twisted lie Satan is poisoning you with.

What's the difference? For real???? God ALLOWED satan to torment Job because satan said, "Oh, by the way God, if you allow me to make his life miserable, he'll curse you!" So God, in order to gain some sort of kudos, told the devil, " I'll show you! You can make Job's life a living hell and torment him where he can't even sleep without having night terrors while he's in unbelievable physical anguish with boils all over his body - not to mention the emotional suffering of losing each and every one of his children and the stress of the collapse of his livelihood - for the sole purpose of proving to you (satan) that he won't curse me????" For REAL?
That's like a father that would hire a rapist to come and rape his daughter to prove to the rapist that even though he ALLOWED the rapest to come and voilate his daughter's innocence, she would love her daddy even though he didn't protect her. That's freaking sick!

 

[simply christian]

What's the difference? For real???? God ALLOWED satan to torment Job because satan said, "Oh, by the way God, if you allow me to make his life miserable, he'll curse you!" So God, in order to gain some sort of kudos, told the devil, " I'll show you! You can make Job's life a living hell and torment him where he can't even sleep without having night terrors while he's in unbelievable physical anguish with boils all over his body - not to mention the emotional suffering of losing each and every one of his children and the stress of the collapse of his livelihood - for the sole purpose of proving to you (satan) that he won't curse me????" For REAL?
That's like a father that would hire a rapist to come and rape his daughter to prove to the rapist that even though he ALLOWED the rapest to come and voilate his daughter's innocence, she would love her daddy even though he didn't protect her. That's freaking sick!

Yes it is.

I have greatly lost faith in God/Jesus over this. If I'm nothing but a plaything or a gambling object in a wager between God and Satan, I don't want to worship a God like that.

What's the point?

 

[ABlessedAnomaly]

Yes it is.

I have greatly lost faith in God/Jesus over this. If I'm nothing but a plaything or a gambling object in a wager between God and Satan, I don't want to worship a God like that.

What's the point?

Hmmm. I'll be praying for you sir.

First, even if this were so (even if Calvinism is correct and Free Will falters) we must understand that God is God and He loves you.

But rest assured that the Bible does not speak of a wager between God and Satan. Satan is a created being, not an equal to God who sits over tea making wagers. Satan has nothing to wager with: he already has lost everything; his end is already written.

The problem is that you are reading from a misconception of Job outward and letting that misconception blur and muddy the rest of your interpretation. Before approaching God in the book of Job look at who He is in the rest of scripture: He is love, He is truth. He is kindness and longsuffering; He is helper. He is Jehovah Jirah, the God that healeth thee -- not a God that maketh you sick and hurt. Look at all the names for God and you will find only one that appears to be "negative," but it isn't: the God that smiteth is speaking of Judgement -- for perfect holiness and truth requires that those who choose to reject God be judged.

Like a child who gets angry at Mom for not letting him do something or have something that he does not understand the consequences of, we must realize that Mom still loves the child -- even if the little child has turned his back and broods. God still loves you no matter how much you have "lost faith" and no matter how much you think you "don't want to worship" Him.

He is patient. He loves you and if you are saved, and I believe you are, then He has sealed you with the Holy Spirit until the day of redemption. Quit sulking and look to the bible (outside the book of Job -- in fact, get into the New Testament; or if you must stay in the Old try Psalm 91) for the character of God. Quit looking for what appears to be bad -- you'll find whatever it is you look for, even if it truly isn't there.

God is good. He loves you. He wants you to be whole and in peace. He want for you: shalom -- prosperity, nothing missing, nothing broken. Wholeness. Fullness. Love.

 

[Zeek]

I'm not sure what he'd say. Probably something similar to taking up my cross and denying myself and what I want.

I'd like to suggest that the L-rd is intimately acquainted with every aspect of our individual characters...He knows the areas in which we have moved on, overcome and developed character and faith, and He sees our weaknesses and darker sides that are susceptible to sin and unbelief...but my dear friend, He loves us...He loves us...He loves us.

I know that when we are going through hard times, hearing about other peoples struggles is often little comfort because it is removed from our immediate concerns and anxieties....but I promise you that if you spend time with G-d...and allow His words of truth to minister to you, there will be a change, and you will get answers and help.

I believe that one of the ways we draw close to G-d is not just by sitting on our own and hoping to hear a voice directly from Heaven, but by getting into the word of G-d and reading/digesting His truth...Jews believe the highest form of worship is reading Scripture. Also, we are all in this race together, and G-d places us in a Body of Believers to help and encourage us along the way...this means being open and real, which I hope is happening in unburdening yourself here.

In my darkest moments, I have never found religious answers to the cries of my heart...I have discovered the closeness and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit, encouragement and personal revelation in Scripture, and the love of several good friends.

14 Therefore, since we have a great high priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our confession. 15 For we do not have a high priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but One who has been tempted in all things as we are, yet without sin. 16 Therefore let us draw near with confidence to the throne of grace, so that we may receive mercy and find grace to help in time of need.

 

[Hishandmaiden]

For me, there are a few things that help me overcome my bitterness towards God.

Firstly, whenever I feel disappointed in God, I remember He is my creator. He makes me and creates me, so He has every right to decide what will happen and what will not. He determines everything and who am I to argue with Him? I am his created being, and just being alive is a testament itself of His love towards me.

Secondly, I tried to remember every single moment of my life, when God has been good to me. I tried to bring into my memories all my past encounters with Him, and all the joy and happiness I used to have with Him, before the bitter incident occurs.

Thirdly, I focus my mind to think about all the good things that are still available in my life. It can be as small a thing as having a papaya to eat. I focus on how tasty the papaya is, and thinks about how God is still good to me, even though He allowed the bitter incident to happen, because He allows me to eat a papaya.

Finally, I pray to God to help turn my bitter incident around, and I hope for and wait for His deliverance.

 

[Scottmcc1]

James 5:11
We count those blessed who endured. You have heard of the endurance of Job and have seen the outcome of the Lord’s dealings, that the Lord is full of compassion and is merciful.

Yes it is.

I have greatly lost faith in God/Jesus over this. If I'm nothing but a plaything or a gambling object in a wager between God and Satan, I don't want to worship a God like that.

What's the point?

According to James 5:11 you are missing something in your analysis.
What are you missing?

 

[simply christian]

James 5:11
We count those blessed who endured. You have heard of the endurance of Job and have seen the outcome of the Lord’s dealings, that the Lord is full of compassion and is merciful.



According to James 5:11 you are missing something in your analysis.
What are you missing?

That was James' opinion. I fail to see how killing Job's children, taking all his money, his health and his joy was a blessing. Do you?

 

[simply christian]

For me, there are a few things that help me overcome my bitterness towards God.

Firstly, whenever I feel disappointed in God, I remember He is my creator. He makes me and creates me, so He has every right to decide what will happen and what will not. He determines everything and who am I to argue with Him? I am his created being, and just being alive is a testament itself of His love towards me.

Secondly, I tried to remember every single moment of my life, when God has been good to me. I tried to bring into my memories all my past encounters with Him, and all the joy and happiness I used to have with Him, before the bitter incident occurs.

Hmmm, the first statement is interesting. If it works for you, that's fine, but I take issue with someone, anyone, who wants to ruin my life, God or not. Here is an analogy: just because a man or woman have a child and raise it, does not give them the right to kill, maim or abuse the child, no matter what they happen to think. Why is it any different for God (who is supposedly the most loving being in the universe)? Can you explain this to me?

 

[simply christian]

I'd like to suggest that the L-rd is intimately acquainted with every aspect of our individual characters...He knows the areas in which we have moved on, overcome and developed character and faith, and He sees our weaknesses and darker sides that are susceptible to sin and unbelief...but my dear friend, He loves us...He loves us...He loves us.

I know that when we are going through hard times, hearing about other peoples struggles is often little comfort because it is removed from our immediate concerns and anxieties....but I promise you that if you spend time with G-d...and allow His words of truth to minister to you, there will be a change, and you will get answers and help.

I believe that one of the ways we draw close to G-d is not just by sitting on our own and hoping to hear a voice directly from Heaven, but by getting into the word of G-d and reading/digesting His truth...Jews believe the highest form of worship is reading Scripture. Also, we are all in this race together, and G-d places us in a Body of Believers to help and encourage us along the way...this means being open and real, which I hope is happening in unburdening yourself here.

In my darkest moments, I have never found religious answers to the cries of my heart...I have discovered the closeness and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit, encouragement and personal revelation in Scripture, and the love of several good friends.

14 Therefore, since we have a great high priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our confession. 15 For we do not have a high priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but One who has been tempted in all things as we are, yet without sin. 16 Therefore let us draw near with confidence to the throne of grace, so that we may receive mercy and find grace to help in time of need.

I have been reading scripture. I have only been quoting scripture since the first post. I have said little about my personal struggles that God is bringing on me. I am simply quoting the Bible and the book of Job, more precisely.

I don't see any mention of God being "loving" or anything of the sort when I study the book of Job. Even his reply to Job was far from loving; he essentially just told Job to shut up; I'm God, you're not, be quiet. (I probably would too, if a whirlwind started yelling at me.)

 

[simply christian]

Hmmm. I'll be praying for you sir.

First, even if this were so (even if Calvinism is correct and Free Will falters) we must understand that God is God and He loves you.

But rest assured that the Bible does not speak of a wager between God and Satan. Satan is a created being, not an equal to God who sits over tea making wagers. Satan has nothing to wager with: he already has lost everything; his end is already written.

The problem is that you are reading from a misconception of Job outward and letting that misconception blur and muddy the rest of your interpretation. Before approaching God in the book of Job look at who He is in the rest of scripture: He is love, He is truth. He is kindness and longsuffering; He is helper. He is Jehovah Jirah, the God that healeth thee -- not a God that maketh you sick and hurt. Look at all the names for God and you will find only one that appears to be "negative," but it isn't: the God that smiteth is speaking of Judgement -- for perfect holiness and truth requires that those who choose to reject God be judged.

Like a child who gets angry at Mom for not letting him do something or have something that he does not understand the consequences of, we must realize that Mom still loves the child -- even if the little child has turned his back and broods. God still loves you no matter how much you have "lost faith" and no matter how much you think you "don't want to worship" Him.

He is patient. He loves you and if you are saved, and I believe you are, then He has sealed you with the Holy Spirit until the day of redemption. Quit sulking and look to the bible (outside the book of Job -- in fact, get into the New Testament; or if you must stay in the Old try Psalm 91) for the character of God. Quit looking for what appears to be bad -- you'll find whatever it is you look for, even if it truly isn't there.

God is good. He loves you. He wants you to be whole and in peace. He want for you: shalom -- prosperity, nothing missing, nothing broken. Wholeness. Fullness. Love.

I'm not a Calvinist. I am simply a Christian who is willing to accept Word of Faith teachings. I'm not looking for religious answers, I want the truth. Which is why I go to the bible.

If God was not making wagers with Satan and Satan had no power, then God was clearly the one responsible for afflicting Job. Satan could not make God do anything he did not already want to do, correct? If so, then God did, in fact, bring all that evil on Job. And Job was probably a better man than I will ever be, so if God does that to his favourites, where do I come out? (That is also a frightening thought.)

I don't see any of those good statements you made in the book of Job. I only see God as bullying Job, afflicting him, taking almost everything from him, to prove something to Satan and in the end, he refuses to even offer Job any sort of explanation for his suffering. How is any part of that loving?

If God afflicted Job, then he will surely afflict me, and all believers. God did a lot of smiting in the old testament and his nature never changes. We have much to fear from God.

 

[pk4yahweh]

That was James' opinion. I fail to see how killing Job's children, taking all his money, his health and his joy was a blessing. Do you?

Funny how you place so much stake in the Scriptures in Job - yet easily dismiss Scripture in James as "his opinion". It is almost like you have an answer already in your head and are looking for Scripture to support it. As was mentioned earlier - you typically find what you are looking for.

 

[Scottmcc1]

That was James' opinion.

This is the issue right here. This is the Bible you are calling an opinion. If you don't respect the Bible what do you care what Job has to say?

 

[simply christian]

Funny how you place so much stake in the Scriptures in Job - yet easily dismiss Scripture in James as "his opinion". It is almost like you have an answer already in your head and are looking for Scripture to support it. As was mentioned earlier - you typically find what you are looking for.

As do you. So that's your answer?

Since no one has been able to even address the issue at hand, then I would assume I am correct on the matter. Thanks.

 

[ABlessedAnomaly]

I'm not a Calvinist. I am simply a Christian who is willing to accept Word of Faith teachings. I'm not looking for religious answers, I want the truth. Which is why I go to the bible.

Sorry, I wasn't calling you that although I acquiesce that my words do seem to indicate that.

If God was not making wagers with Satan and Satan had no power, then God was clearly the one responsible for afflicting Job.

No so. Job was the one responsible for his affliction because he chose to fear and walk in the curse.

Satan could not make God do anything he did not already want to do, correct? If so, then God did, in fact, bring all that evil on Job. And Job was probably a better man than I will ever be, so if God does that to his favourites, where do I come out? (That is also a frightening thought.)

The bible is clear that God is good and wants only wholeness for His children. He is not out to hurt you; nor does He use the curse to teach you -- He's much smarter and more efficient to have to resort to that.

In this world we have the blessing and the curse set before us. It is our choice which to embrace and walk in. Job chose to walk in the curse. If one walks in the mud their feet get muddy. God didn't make Job get 'muddy' nor did God throw the mud.

I don't see any of those good statements you made in the book of Job. I only see God as bullying Job, afflicting him, taking almost everything from him, to prove something to Satan and in the end, he refuses to even offer Job any sort of explanation for his suffering. How is any part of that loving?

Your being myopic in the book of Job. And you are working your theology from the book of Job outward, instead of beginning with the whole of scripture, understanding God and the choices we have and then applying these truths to Job. Scripture must agree with scripture. Beginning INSIDE of Job and working outward leads to the misunderstanding and false dichotomy that you currently have. Yes, a frightening place to be.

If God afflicted Job, then he will surely afflict me, and all believers.

This would be a true statement, for God is not a respector of persons. But God did not afflict Job; Job walked into the curse and opened the door for affliction to come upon him. God allowed that free choice for He is not a puppet master to stop you from your choices. Sorry, but you are allowed to make ill advised choices in this world if you are either ignorant of God's truth or you willfully decide to reject God's goodness.

God did a lot of smiting in the old testament and his nature never changes. We have much to fear from God.

Smiting? Sure. Jehovah Naheh, the God that smiteth. This is judgement. This is for those who refuse to bow before the Lord. But look at all the names of God and find me one other that can be seen as 'negative.' The judgement of smiting shall never come to His children; it is for the unbeliever.

 

[ABlessedAnomaly]

As do you. So that's your answer?

Since no one has been able to even address the issue at hand, then I would assume I am correct on the matter. Thanks.

Job is your bible. You have found your presupposed "correctness" in your misinterpretation therein.

Simply because nobody has given you an answer in your paradigm does not mean that the answers are wrong. You can't see the truth in these answers because you won't leave your presuppositions. Job is right; James is an opinion. God hurts people, forget all the scripture that says that God is your provider. Get under his wing and 1000 fall at your left, 10,000 fall at your right and you are not touched.

Gee, either Job was or was not under God's wing. If he was, then Psalms is wrong. If he wasn't, then he fell -- not because God failed or God aimed at him. No he fell because he chose a path that God did not suggest.

Drop the presuppositions. Get out of the book of Job for a while and quit looking for a god that will hurt you. For God (see the capitalization differences) loves you and wants only the best for you. God is love.

 

[justhappeneduponthis]

Simply Christian, do you believe that Job was an allegory of literature or a real piece of history recorded under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit who is paramountly the Spirit of love? I hold to the latter, and see glorious blessing through Job's coming through. In the Revelation the tenaciously faithful are called "overcomers". This pre-supposes some adversity.

 

[jamadan]

A 20 year old son living with his parents and flipping burgers doesn't understand why his father keeps working on him to go to college or go to a trade school. Life is good. He's earning enough money to pay his car payment, gas, insurance, and his entertainment. Why would he drop the good life to go do something hard like that? So Dad begins to take away privileges, make the nest a little less comfortable so his son will be willing to move on to maturity. Son doesn't like the changes, thinks Dad's being a jerk, doesn't understand the vision of his future that Dad sees. Over time, it gets bad enough that Dad feels his only choice is to send his son out to fend for himself, to learn first-hand what it takes. Son is cast out and starts to learn life the hard way. With each hardship, his anger towards his father grows. Son never does figure it out. He eventually finds a humble little corner to exist in and ekes out his existence in manual labor, never realizing the need to grow up and work toward the future, to become a man.

This life is but one big training ground. It is not our destiny. It is not truly our life, it's where we're to learn to trust the disciplines that the Father puts us through because only He knows where we need to be far down the road, in eternity and what He sees for us - Proverbs 3:5.

If you want to be angry at God for doing what father's do, that's up to you.