- Oct 10, 2011
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Why...? Just because I call it "God", etc...?
Do you believe in "cause and effect", etc...?
Yes or No, etc...?
God Bless!
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Why...? Just because I call it "God", etc...?This is where we differ.
Let's say that you spin a coin. There is nothing to constrain it to land on heads or tails. It's purely arbitrary. Now imagine that you had the temporary ability to see the future. And you look forward a few minutes and see that the coin landed on heads. Does your knowledge change the fact that it was an arbitrary event? Not at all.
It's nonsense to suggest that every coin toss you don't see in the future is arbitrary and every one that you do see is fixed in some way.
It would be the same with God.
Just because He knows how a coin toss (or a choice you make) will eventuate doesn't fix that result in advance.
No one can understand the infinite. Nor do I think, that anyone can comprehend perfect divine love. I don't even understand how anyone could define the Spirit.Unless we can use terms that we can actually understand then it becomes a complete waste of time discussing someone who is indescribable, indefinable and unknowable.
Why...? Just because I call it "God", etc...?
Do you believe in "cause and effect", etc...?
Yes or No, etc...?
God Bless!
No one can understand the infinite. Nor do I think, that anyone can comprehend perfect divine love. I don't even understand how anyone could define the Spirit.
So we cannot adequately define the terms, let alone understand the concepts that the terms describe.
What is the point of all this?
If you think that, you are the first person in very many years discussing these matters on forums such as this who holds to such a view.
Yes, that's right, Oregon more specifically.I guess you gotta be west coast...
No, I am saying sinners do not have a free will until rebirth.But what if we decide to do something good? It just sounds like you're saying that we have free will but that it only works when we decide to make good decisions. Bad ones are made by something evil in us compelling us to take the immoral path and overriding our free will.
So who made the decision for me to have a poached egg for breakfast? And who decides if an action is evil?
I have come to discredit this presupposition...it leads directly to HIS creating those who would fall into demonhood and eternal damnation while knowing this would be their end. I cannot countenance this as the actions of a most loving, righteous and just creator...it just doesn't fit.If any God absolutely knew/knows everything from the beginning to end, etc, but from the beginning, etc, then He knows all outcomes of all supposed choices, correct...?
God can make people that have free will is a direct contradiction to always 100% guaranteed choose the Good.Good, we agree on that too. So God can make people that have free will, and always 100% guaranteed choose the Good, so why make people that will choose the Bad? (Now that we know it isn't because of free will).
If you make people only able to love you then you are creating a Stepford Wife, a robot, not a person with a free will.God freely chooses to love His creation, and He always will, it won't ever be any other way, and He has free will. So why not make people that will freely choose to love God, and they always will (even though they have free will), and it too won't ever be any other way?
No, we've already established that it's entirely possible to have free will and always 100% guaranteed choose the Good (God does it) so there's no logical contradiction. Having free will and 100% guaranteed choosing the Good is not a contradiction.God can make people that have free will is a direct contradiction to always 100% guaranteed choose the Good.
They're able to choose to hate God, but they never ever will, 100% guaranteed. The fact that they never ever will choose to hate does not imply a lack of free will. If it did imply a lack of free will, then God doesn't have free will (but He does, so it doesn't).If you make people only able to love you then you are creating a Stepford Wife, a robot, not person with a free will.
That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying they have free will but will (not "can") only love.Just saying that they have a free will but can only love is illogical.
No, I am saying sinners do not have a free will until rebirth.
The ability to make choices does NOT prove the will is free from coercion, the coercive enslaving power of evil. If our wills were free we would be able to choose a 100% righteous action and save ourselves from the grip of sin but that is not available to us so we need the redemption found in Christ.
Why are our best choices, our most righteous decisions, thoughts and passons counted as filthy rags? The sinfulness of a person permeates every part of his life, even the best parts, contaminating his best so it is filthy, not good. How else could Paul write: Rom 7:14 We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin. 15 I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do, I do not do. But what I hate, I do.
Yes you chose your egg but that is NOT proof that the moral content of your choice was free to be righteous...the ability to choose and a free will are different things.
3) Morally evil and deceptive.
HE created us to be HIS Bride based upon a loving relationship so our free will to enter this marriage is an absolute necessity to fulfill HIS purpose as no love can be forced and no forced marriage is real. And for our free will decision to accept HIS marriage proposal to be real we had to have the ability to reject that proposal, to reject HIM and so to create sin in HIS creation.
Like I said, if you want to know how it all pans out, and works, and is 100% fair and right and righteous and just, then PM me...
God Bless!
Some of it I can get into trouble with on here with the mods and the rules, etc, so I'd just prefer to do it privately where I feel like I can speak freely, etc...Why are you keeping this info a secret? Spill it out please.
Are you being persecuted by fellow Christians? This is a Christian forum!Some of it I can get into trouble with on here with the mods and the rules, etc, so I'd just prefer to do it privately where I feel like I can speak freely, etc...
In fact, I'm surprised I haven't got into trouble with it or them (again) already, etc...
Anyway,
God Bless!
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