How do you get God to ACTUALLY help?

[GirdYourLoins]

I don't want to be in the pleasant warm breeze of affliction

Even if no one else does, i know exactly how you feel. Can I ask you one question. I know for a fact that my dad hated God, not like a lot of people who hate the idea of God, my dad knowingly hated God. Do you know if one of your parents or close ancestors did?

 

[Questioning Brother]

Even if no one else does, i know exactly how you feel. Can I ask you one question. I know for a fact that my dad hated God, not like a lot of people who hate the idea of God, my dad knowingly hated God. Do you know if one of your parents or close ancestors did?

Not to my knowledge. Pretty sure mom was a believer. Dad didn’t hateGod but fairly sure he wasn’t a Christian

 

[Questioning Brother]

You talk about God's inaction - yet he made the universe, world and you. You are made in his image. You have been given life and an opportunity to know God and have every spiritual blessing in Christ, Ephesians 1:3. You can be God's child, adopted as his son, John 1:12, Romans 8:16, and have his Spirit living in you.

And what good is any of that if he doesn’t act to help? Nothing. Empty words.

You say that actions speak louder than words; look at the cross. A perfect, sinless man died on that cross - why? He offered his perfect life for your sinful one. That perfect, sinless man, Jesus, was also God. So God himself came into our world to walk alongside us and experience rejection, betrayal, insults, hope, joy and the day to day routine of what we go through.
Actions speak louder than words: God didn't just say that he understood, he became one of us, experienced our lives and proved it.

I disagree. He had foreknowledge and didn’t have the sin attached to Adam’s seed. If he REALLY wanted to understand, he would have come her as clueless as the rest of us.

Yes, of course it would be nice to have a comfortable, pleasant life here, but not everyone has that.
People don't choose to be born into poverty, or with a disability or parents who neglected them or were addicts - none of us even chooses to be born. Yet if we have life, we are doing way better than small babies who die before they can live. If we have a home, we are doing better than those even in our own country who sleep on the streets, never mind all those who have lost their home. If we have 3 meals a day we are doing far better than those who don't even have one. If we are healthy we are doing better than those who were born with disabilities, or addicted. If we have family we are doing better than those who've lost their loved ones due to war or violence.

No. The babies never knew pain. Are we better off when our loved ones are ravaged by medically incurable diseases (strokes) and reduced to half a person bedridden? No, we are not!

Sure, there are people in these positions who hate God for their lot in life - but there are also those who come to faith and come to trust, and love, him IN their circumstances.
Life can be unfair, sad or just the pits, but this life is not all there is.

No amount of pain will cause me to trust. Caring enough to actually help would work though.

 

[JIMINZ]

No amount of pain will cause me to trust. Caring enough to actually help would work though.

HMMMMM, Makes one wonder.

 

[Norbert L]

When I say actually help, I mean materially improve the situation. I don’t mean ANY form of making me feel better about it. His grace, love, presence, patience, etc.=not actually helping. How do I get him to act rather than give me completely empty words?

How old are you? Not that in our society there aren't 60+ yr olds that still act like irresponsible teenagers. You might find that your resume gets tossed out. Be humble and don't expect to be given a silver platter BUT do what you can to make better yourself and be noticed by man and God. Luke 2:52

 

[Dorothy Mae]

When I say actually help, I mean materially improve the situation. I don’t mean ANY form of making me feel better about it. His grace, love, presence, patience, etc.=not actually helping. How do I get him to act rather than give me completely empty words?

Ask Him what he needs you to do in order to release His hand to work. Most of the promises in the Bible (those words) are conditional. That is, you have to fulfill some conditions for them to be released to you. This is not working for the fulfillment same as a marriage involves conditions that you do not enjoy as payment for the work you put into it even though a good marriage is work. Ask Him what He wants you to do first.

 

[Strong in Him]

And what good is any of that if he doesn’t act to help? Nothing. Empty words.

In what way do you want him to help?

I disagree. He had foreknowledge and didn’t have the sin attached to Adam’s seed.

There is no "sin attached to Adam's seed" - sin is not genetic.
Noah and Job are described as "righteous, blameless and they walked with God." They weren't perfect, as only Jesus has been, but they stayed close to God. Even though Job went through much suffering he did not fall away.
Jesus could have sinned - given into temptation, refused to do his Father's will; but he didn't.

If he REALLY wanted to understand, he would have come her as clueless as the rest of us.

He didn't come here "clueless".
How else do you think that God could have understood how we really feel about things without experiencing them himself? If he'd remained in heaven, apart from everything, looking down on the world but apart from it, isn't it more likely that people would say, "what does God know? It's alright for him, he's never experienced all this pain and stuff"?

No. The babies never knew pain.

How do you know that?
Even foetuses in the womb can feel pain. How o you know that a 3 week/day old baby that dies from illness, or in a car crash, can't and didn't?

Are we better off when our loved ones are ravaged by medically incurable diseases (strokes) and reduced to half a person bedridden? No, we are not!

Never said we were.
I suspect the parents of the baby that died before it could really live were not well off either.

No amount of pain will cause me to trust. Caring enough to actually help would work though.

That's a shame.
C.S Lewis said that God whispers in our pleasure but shouts in our pain; it is his megaphone to rouse a deaf world.
Stuff happens; awful stuff. Personally I'd rather go through it with God than without him - and have done so. In the NT some people didn't believe in Jesus even when they saw him curing the sick, making the lame walk and raising the dead. And I've heard of people who've asked God to heal a loved one and when he has done so, said "thank you very much" and carried on without giving him another thought - until maybe the next time they want something from him.

 

[GirdYourLoins]

Not to my knowledge. Pretty sure mom was a believer. Dad didn’t hateGod but fairly sure he wasn’t a Christian

Ok, the reason I asked is my dad absolutely hated God. I always remember one time in particular when he said he hated God with such a look of venomous hatred on his face and the only time I actually remember drool running down his chin. Exodus 20:4 says He will punish those who hate him to the third and fourth generations, I suspect thats why I am in this situation. People say Jesus became the curse so when we are born again we dont have to suffer this but everything I see makes me think it is. Years of praying asking Jesus and the Father to take this off me as Jesus died on the cross for our sins have been to no avail. I have never come across anyone else i have genuinely believed knows who God is and hated Him. I suspect a lot of people who say they hate God dont actually know who He is to hate Him, but hate the idea of God. If thats the case this curse wouldnt apply to them.

My dad really did hate Him, I wonder if you have a family member (up to three generations back making you the fourth) who did as well. Just remember that if this is the case and you can still love God you are bringing blessing to a thousand generations.

 

[Amittai]

I think triumphal congregations leading cushy lifestyles forget to model reliance on God's providence. With my conditions impacting my self-reliance (and which I don't "write home" much about) in the end I asked "Jesus if there is a Real Jesus" to get someone unknown to me, to pray I would be put in touch with Christians that believe, and can give me belief. It's early days but . . .

 

[Strong in Him]

Ok, the reason I asked is my dad absolutely hated God. I always remember one time in particular when he said he hated God with such a look of venomous hatred on his face and the only time I actually remember drool running down his chin. Exodus 20:4 says He will punish those who hate him to the third and fourth generations, I suspect thats why I am in this situation. People say Jesus became the curse so when we are born again we dont have to suffer this but everything I see makes me think it is. Years of praying asking Jesus and the Father to take this off me as Jesus died on the cross for our sins have been to no avail. I have never come across anyone else i have genuinely believed knows who God is and hated Him. I suspect a lot of people who say they hate God dont actually know who He is to hate Him, but hate the idea of God. If thats the case this curse wouldnt apply to them.

My dad really did hate Him, I wonder if you have a family member (up to three generations back making you the fourth) who did as well. Just remember that if this is the case and you can still love God you are bringing blessing to a thousand generations.

I'd like to reply to this but I can't because it's an advice forum, not a debating one.
Maybe you could start another thread?

 

[GirdYourLoins]

I'd like to reply to this but I can't because it's an advice forum, not a debating one.
Maybe you could start another thread?

Maybe you can give me some advice on here if you think my understanding is off.

 

[Strong in Him]

Maybe you can give me some advice on here if you think my understanding is off.

I'm not sure, because you didn't start the thread - I wouldn't want it to get closed for being off topic.
I'm not an expert anyway, it wouldn't be advice so much as my understanding of the subject.

 

[JIMINZ]

Ok, the reason I asked is my dad absolutely hated God. I always remember one time in particular when he said he hated God with such a look of venomous hatred on his face and the only time I actually remember drool running down his chin. Exodus 20:4 says He will punish those who hate him to the third and fourth generations, I suspect thats why I am in this situation. People say Jesus became the curse so when we are born again we dont have to suffer this but everything I see makes me think it is. Years of praying asking Jesus and the Father to take this off me as Jesus died on the cross for our sins have been to no avail. I have never come across anyone else i have genuinely believed knows who God is and hated Him. I suspect a lot of people who say they hate God dont actually know who He is to hate Him, but hate the idea of God. If thats the case this curse wouldnt apply to them.

My dad really did hate Him, I wonder if you have a family member (up to three generations back making you the fourth) who did as well. Just remember that if this is the case and you can still love God you are bringing blessing to a thousand generations.

Clarification on your Verse Exo.20:5

Have you not noticed, in that verse, God is speaking to the People Of Israel,
and all of these as well.

Exo. 20:5
Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;

Num. 14:18
The LORD is longsuffering, and of great mercy, forgiving iniquity and transgression, and by no means clearing the guilty, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation.

Deu. 5:9
Thou shalt not bow down thyself unto them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me,

These verses do not apply to anyone outside of the Chosen People of God at that time (The Jews) not you or any Gentile, or Christian.

In other words, your not under a curse, whoever taught you that is a false teacher, and void of understanding what the Bible does in fact say.

 

[Strong in Him]

Ok, the reason I asked is my dad absolutely hated God. I always remember one time in particular when he said he hated God with such a look of venomous hatred on his face and the only time I actually remember drool running down his chin. Exodus 20:4 says He will punish those who hate him to the third and fourth generations, I suspect thats why I am in this situation. People say Jesus became the curse so when we are born again we dont have to suffer this but everything I see makes me think it is. Years of praying asking Jesus and the Father to take this off me as Jesus died on the cross for our sins have been to no avail. I have never come across anyone else i have genuinely believed knows who God is and hated Him. I suspect a lot of people who say they hate God dont actually know who He is to hate Him, but hate the idea of God. If thats the case this curse wouldnt apply to them.

My dad really did hate Him, I wonder if you have a family member (up to three generations back making you the fourth) who did as well. Just remember that if this is the case and you can still love God you are bringing blessing to a thousand generations.

Sorry, I didn't mean to sound as though I was brushing you off.
Briefly, I don't agree that any illness/difficulty you are having is due to your father's hatred of God. These words were spoken to people early on in the OT, but later it is clear that people are responsible for their own sins and decisions.
Jesus came to save everyone from sin and eternal death and reconcile us to God. You may have a physical condition from which you have not yet been healed, but what Jesus did for you still stands. You have been reconciled to God, Romans 5:11, 2 Corinthians 5:18, and have forgiveness through Jesus, Ephesians 1:7, 1 John 1:9. You are a child of God, John 1:12, Romans 8:16. You can come to Christ to receive eternal life, 1 John 5:12, remain in Christ, John 15:4 and have every spiritual blessing in Christ, Ephesians 1:3.

But like I say, if you want to debate this further, you may need to start a new thread.

 

[Nancy Hale]

Definitely, both, but you need money to move, and the only real jobs with affordable pay are finance and tech, meaning retraining, with the hopes the want to hire a recent coder in their mid50s.

Not sure what my next step is going to be, but like the OP, every time I think it is getting better (better paying job fell through, accident with Lyft, etc. something sets me back.

But honestly, everyone thinks of moving away.

Software companies always need trainers! Which are teacher's, you don't actually have to know the software. You just need to translate the experience you do have into tech speak.

 

[Nancy Hale]

When I say actually help, I mean materially improve the situation. I don’t mean ANY form of making me feel better about it. His grace, love, presence, patience, etc.=not actually helping. How do I get him to act rather than give me completely empty words?

I think you have a valid question. After all...
Matthew 7: 7-11 kjv
7 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:
8 For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.
9 Or what man is there of you, whom if his son ask bread, will he give him a stone?
10 Or if he ask a fish, will he give him a serpent?
11 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him?
James 2 15-17
15 If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacking in daily food,
16and one of you says to them, "Go in peace, be warmed and filled," without giving them the things needed for the body, what good is that?
17 So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

So, you want to force God's hand on the matter, is that correct? He promises good gifts; you're not overly thrilled with what life's dealt you, and you could really use a hand up before you go under for the third time; is that about right?
I don't know the answer. But I do know that God does not lie.

 

[ilovejcsog]

When I say actually help, I mean materially improve the situation. I don’t mean ANY form of making me feel better about it. His grace, love, presence, patience, etc.=not actually helping. How do I get him to act rather than give me completely empty words?

I feel the same way you do right now but not about anything that God could provide materially. I hope you find an answer to prove how much God loves and cares for you and I will be praying for you.
God bless and give you peace in your situation.

 

[Alien007]

Not in the ways they want necessarily.
Did Paul get healing for his affliction this side of physical death? Not that I know of, he asked, and was denied. Was Paul not a "true believer"?
Do we learn now that Paul, who was inspired by the Holy Ghost to write several epistles that we rely on for our faith was a false conversion? I don't think so.
God is not your genie in a lamp, anything you ask in good faith, it becomes HIS decision, and He will make His decision on what better shows His glory, and how you would better serve Him. Jesus healed many infirmities because it was to show the glory of God. Paul was NOT healed, because God wanted to keep him humble before the Lord, and the "thorn in his flesh" was a constant reminder that just because he was an apostle and had many blessings, and great reward to come, he shouldn't get too proud.

I ask for healing too. Sometimes I wonder if I ask for it too much and God considers it "vain repetitions". I was in a phase of remission and going to church again. But now I'm out of remission, my medication is unable to be refilled because of red tape and paperwork shenanigans through the VA, so I'm unable to go anywhere right now.
But, I can kind of see it as God looking out for me because of this new virus, church is a place with a lot of handshaking and contact and a lot of people, people with children, and while I'm on those medications I'm immunocompromised, more susceptible to infection and I'm also in a state where the virus is more likely to kill me than the general population. So maybe God is protecting me with what seems like misfortune and suffering currently, keeping me homebound even if it means forsaking the assembly until I can walk and drive again. Maybe that's what protects me from getting sick with the virus, maybe that's what prevents me from dying from it, because I'm not on the immunosuppressive drugs.
Sometimes God can look out for you in a way that might seem horrible on the surface.

Do you feel closer to God ? Has this experience helped you ? ( I ask because I am terminally ill and am trying to see how God is using this for me ) I am afraid and not feeling very triumphant

 

[Jamdoc]

Do you feel closer to God ? Has this experience helped you ? ( I ask because I am terminally ill and am trying to see how God is using this for me ) I am afraid and not feeling very triumphant

It's difficult isn't it? To be thankful FOR our suffering. To be happy and thankful IN SPITE OF our suffering is easier. However we are to be thankful FOR our suffering and our pain as well.
1 Thessalonians 5:18

Sometimes like in my case, I CAN see how it can be providence from God, even to suffer, if He is doing so to protect me from going out and getting sick, or as how I got these diseases to begin with, I had backslidden very very far, and the "this can't be coincidence" aspect of getting sick led me to believe fully again where my belief was down to a thread thin faith for a long time, where I wondered if He was out there at all, and when I believed in Him I was mad at Him, and I didn't want to be on speaking terms with Him, but I found myself talking to Him anyway. I was trying not to believe, for years and years, to be agnostic, or even atheist, because I was angry with Him. Ultimately it has led me back to Him, because it is not coincidence, and He was trying to tell me some things.
#1. You don't always get what you want, not even in Heaven.
I don't know if I'd say I was closer to God than I've ever been, certainly closer than I was a year or two ago. But what I can say is I have more understanding of God's sovereignty. What I did believe in my youth was selfish, like most people thinking Heaven was my wish fulfillment payoff.
Now I don't see it that way.

As for your case, all I can do is pray for you, and tell you that even without getting every wish of our hearts fulfilled, even if you ask and God tells you "no". To be with the Lord IS better than here. To be without sin and suffering all by itself is better than here.

 

[Amittai]

I don't want to be in the pleasant warm breeze of affliction

Well put QB. Unlike your other respondent I too can think of the concretes that look too dicey by far and I am just creating what semblance of routine I can and holding onto the "fact" (which I have been forced to singlehandedly invent) that Jesus and the Gospel and truth and doctrine ARE NOT AS taught and manifested by the snooty, triumphal, designer outlet churches / Bethelated and Torontulated (pharisaical theosophy) Spirits.