how do you feel about this?

[rainycity]

The LORD commands: “kill without showing pity or compassion. Slaughter old men, young men and maidens, women and children”
—Ezekiel 9:5-6

 

[98cwitr]

God does not command this of us, but the One with the writing kit in scripture to fulfill. This is the same that will happen in the days of tribulation, we as a people are given many chances, just look at the story of Noah, and then this, and then the blood of Jesus...they are given as chances for redemption:

5 "This is what the Sovereign LORD says: Disaster! An unheard-of [a] disaster is coming. 6 The end has come! The end has come! It has roused itself against you. It has come! 7 Doom has come upon you—you who dwell in the land. The time has come, the day is near; there is panic, not joy, upon the mountains. 8 I am about to pour out my wrath on you and spend my anger against you; I will judge you according to your conduct and repay you for all your detestable practices. 9 I will not look on you with pity or spare you; I will repay you in accordance with your conduct and the detestable practices among you. Then you will know that it is I the LORD who strikes the blow.

how do I feel about it? God giveth and God taketh away. It is His right, is it not? It is the lesson of Justice, that we reap what we sow.

 

[ephraimanesti]

The LORD commands: “kill without showing pity or compassion. Slaughter old men, young men and maidens, women and children”
—Ezekiel 9:5-6

MY FRIEND,

Our Creator God is Lord of all He created. The slaughter in Ezekiel's vision was of those who had defiled the Temple with idols. Those who were slaughtered were warned; they were given a chance to repent; they refused and paid the price. There is only one Judge--and you ain't Him.

i strongly suggest that you, in your arrogance, don't make the same mistake those fools made!

A BOND-SLAVE/FRIEND/BROTHER OF OUR LORD/GOD/SAVIOR JESUS CHRIST,
ephraim

 

[kevlite2020]

I see no problem with God being a righteous judge. I WOULD see a problem with a god who didn't care about his creation and wasn't righteous and just.

People often attribute bad disasters and death and everything like that to God. Remember, it was man who brought sin and death to the world, not God. You won't see me blaming God for anyone's death, including my own. It's our doing. The verse you quoted is just another example out of billions of examples of people bringing death upon themselves.

 

[rainycity]

So a righteous judge demands innocent children to be slaughtered? For babies to be dashed against rocks?

Happy is he who repays you for what you have done to us — he who seizes your infants and dashes them against the rocks!
Psalm 137:8-9

The people of Samaria must bear their guilt, because they have rebelled against their God. They will fall by the sword: their little ones will be dashed to the ground, their pregnant women ripped open.
Hosea 13:16

Maybe god gives and takes away, if that is his choice why can't he take their lives away and not command people to slaughter them?
If they were living a sinful life, why couldn't the israelites at least spare the children and raise them the right way?

Would the holocaust have been righteous if god ordered the nazis to do it?

I see no problem with God being a righteous judge. I WOULD see a problem with a god who didn't care about his creation and wasn't righteous and just.

So if you were actually there at one of these genocides and you watched israelites slaughter men, women, screaming children, elderly people, and pick up babies and smash them to the ground, you'd still be able to say its a righteous thing for the israelites to do and for god to command? what if you were walking through a park one day and there were a group of mothers with infants and men suddenly came charging towards them, tore away the kids and smashed them onto rocks? Would you still feel ok knowing that god ordered people to do the same thing?

 

[ebia]

The LORD commands: “kill without showing pity or compassion. Slaughter old men, young men and maidens, women and children”
—Ezekiel 9:5-6

Evil behaviour has consequences, and one common theme of the prophets is to describe those consequences in terms of the judgement and wrath of God.

Even the (very conservative) ESV Literary Study Bible describes the passage in question as "a piece of fantasy writing ... another horror story with spiritual meaning".

 

[rainycity]

MY FRIEND,
Those who were slaughtered were warned; they were given a chance to repent; they refused and paid the price.

What about the people living in canaan before the israelites? Correct me if I'm wrong, but they weren't warned or anything, the israelites just came in and wiped out all the men, women, children and animals so they could have the land.

"Have you allowed all the women to live?" he [Moses] asked them.... "Now...kill every woman who has slept with a man, but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man."
Numbers 31:1-18

'If a man has a stubborn and rebellious son ... Then shall his father and his mother ... bring him out to the elders of his city ... And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die'
Deuteronomy 21:18-21

'Some small boys came out of the city and jeered at the prophet Elisha, sayiong, "Go up, you baldhead! Go up, you baldhead!" And ... he cursed them in the name of the Lord. And two she-bears came out of the woods and tore forty-two of the boys.'
II Kings 2:23-24

 

[drich0150]

So a righteous judge demands innocent children to be slaughtered?

It's foolish to think age has anything to do with innocents. Innocents is a state of being, not a "new human smell."

For babies to be dashed against rocks?

Are you pro abortion?

 

[Van]

Does God have the right of the potter over the clay. If God creates life, does He have the right to take the life away?

 

[childofGod31]

The LORD commands: “kill without showing pity or compassion. Slaughter old men, young men and maidens, women and children”
—Ezekiel 9:5-6

God sees souls. God knows which souls will be bad and which will be good. It's doesn't matter that the soul just got its body and is still in the state of a little child. Soul is a soul and God lives outside of our time and He knows each soul - its ways and its path inside and out. And he knows ahead who will become what.

What God basically has said was: engage with them in a war (and do not spare anybody because the judgement was pronounced against them and they were all condemned for destruction. And I don't want you to go against my judgement and start sparing some of these).

God uses wars to bring judgement against the people. Sometimes He uses natural disasters, but sometimes He does it through people. The people in that city were judged and condemned for destruction. The people are judged when the cup of their sins becomes full. The cup of their sin was full (like the cup of Sodom and Gomorrah was full, like the cup of America is getting close to the top, and once it's full, God will use other nations to engage in a war with America and destroy her).

The reason that God said: destroy everybody is that other nations corrupted Israel and God didn't want them to influence Israel. So He didn't want pagan worshippers growing among them influencing Israel against worshipping the true God. But the main point is that those people were condemned to be destroyed FIRST. And THEN, God used one of the methods to execute that judgement.

God does not like to destroy people. It grieves Him. But it's His responsibility as a judge of the earth to make sure that the wicked and those who don't repent of their evil deeds, get destroyed and not bother the good people.

LAM 3:33 For he does not willingly bring affliction or grief to the children of men.
EZE 33:11 Say to them, 'As surely as I live, declares the Sovereign LORD, I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that they turn from their ways and live. Turn! Turn from your evil ways!

The judgement is coming to America and the world. But God is still giving us time to repent. He is still sending little judgements as a wake up call. Judgements are sent with the hope that people will repent.

2PE 3:9 The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.

God is love and He doesn't like the duties of destruction. But it's His responsibility as the Creator. He would rather give all men peace and happiness. But the wicked wouldn't let the good people have a good life. The wicked always spoil things for everybody, so God has to deal with that. God wants a world to be a beautiful place to live in, and so it will be after the judgement of this world and after all the wicked are destroyed.

 

[kevlite2020]

So a righteous judge demands innocent children to be slaughtered? For babies to be dashed against rocks?

Happy is he who repays you for what you have done to us — he who seizes your infants and dashes them against the rocks!
Psalm 137:8-9

The people of Samaria must bear their guilt, because they have rebelled against their God. They will fall by the sword: their little ones will be dashed to the ground, their pregnant women ripped open.
Hosea 13:16

Maybe god gives and takes away, if that is his choice why can't he take their lives away and not command people to slaughter them?
If they were living a sinful life, why couldn't the israelites at least spare the children and raise them the right way?

Would the holocaust have been righteous if god ordered the nazis to do it?



So if you were actually there at one of these genocides and you watched israelites slaughter men, women, screaming children, elderly people, and pick up babies and smash them to the ground, you'd still be able to say its a righteous thing for the israelites to do and for god to command? what if you were walking through a park one day and there were a group of mothers with infants and men suddenly came charging towards them, tore away the kids and smashed them onto rocks? Would you still feel ok knowing that god ordered people to do the same thing?

I'm fine with all of that. You seem to have a thought that God is irrationally angry and unjust because of babies dying and people you would consider innocent. Here's something that's hard to realize, the people you may think are good and innocent, aren't so good and innocent in God's eyes. Remember that He is perfect and holy and calls us to be as well. Before Jesus came as a sacrifice to take on the weight of God's righteous wrath, man had to live under God's wrath. As you can see, we didn't do so well with it.

As for God commanding people to slaughter other people, let me ask this. Is it okay for the people who were slaughtered to kill people who loved God in truly horrific ways, blaspheme constantly, worship false gods, live in perverted ways, and so many other things? If the answer is no, then you should realize these aren't innocent people the Hebrews were dealing with. God could have just burned those people who went against Him all on His own, why would He use His people to slaughter them? Perhaps to increase their faith to Him, show them yet again that He is real. Many of the battles the Hebrews fought were with them outnumbered and against great armies, and having the Lord deliver those enemies into their hands was probably a great way to show the ones who love Him that He is with them truly, as well as showing the rest of the world that He is the real one and only God and those false gods won't help anyone.

But at the end of the day, I'm not going to pretend like I know what's in God's heart. Whatever method God wants to use to destroy those who are unrighteous and wicked, that's fine with me. It's His plan, and I'm sure whatever reason He has for anything He does is much better and more important then I could ever realize. I'm sure you'll agree that if there is a perfect God out there, then His mind is much more rational then ours and His methods, even if they seem kind of off to you, must be for a greater good that our limited minds can't see yet.

 

[rainycity]

It's foolish to think age has anything to do with innocents. Innocents is a state of being, not a "new human smell."


Are you pro abortion?

No, I'm not. And I'm guessing you aren't either, so why would you be ok with babies being slaughtered. Explain to what a baby could do to not be innocent and be deserving of death. You don't believe in reincarnation, so a baby is a totally new soul.

God sees souls. God knows which souls will be bad and which will be good. It's doesn't matter that the soul just got its body and is still in the state of a little child. Soul is a soul and God lives outside of our time and He knows each soul - its ways and its path inside and out. And he knows ahead who will become what.

So we don't have free will, obviously. If souls can be predestined to be good or wicked. A different environment or a different upbringing can't change the actions a baby will take and the person it will eventually become?

So He didn't want pagan worshippers growing among them influencing Israel against worshipping the true God. But the main point is that those people were condemned to be destroyed FIRST. And THEN, God used one of the methods to execute that judgement.

People must be pretty rotten, then. And worshippers of the true god musn't be strong enough to resist being influenced by the beleifs of other people, who in some cases live in other countries. An entire community of worshippers of the true god, being favoured and watched over god, with people who have a direct line of communication to god, and yet they can't bare having a few people with other beleifs living among them, can't convert them apparently or even have them living in separate countries, so much that they need to go the extent of genocide and child murder.

The people are judged when the cup of their sins becomes full. The cup of their sin was full (like the cup of Sodom and Gomorrah was full, like the cup of America is getting close to the top, and once it's full, God will use other nations to engage in a war with America and destroy her).

What exactly were the people doing to deserve to be slaughtered, in every instance of biblical history where the israelites committed genocide, and what is the evidence of what they were doing.
What were the people who were originally living in canaan doing to deserve genocide?

I'm fine with all of that.

Maybe you should think about that next time you see a baby. Do you have any babies or children in your family?
I don't know if you ever seen any footage of people being slaughtered, maybe you should go and watch some to get a clear idea of what you actually believe. I think when people read bible stories they have a tendency to distance themselves from it and not think of it as actual real events like what they see happening in the world in real time.

You think that it was ok for people to be killed for practising other religions, so you would be absolutely fine with what muslim extremists are doing in the world today if it was being commanded by god, which is exactly what they believe. You beleive its ok for people to be killed for idolatry, whether it happened now or a few thousand years ago. All of the jews who were killed in the holocaust were living sinful lives by christian standards, so had that of been a few thousand years ago, it would be ok. You don't think infants and children are neccessarily innocent, so children being shot and gased would be absolutley fine and righteous if it had happened a few thousand years ago, or if it was ordered by god, nazis had that similar mentality of neccessity. They believed what they did is rightoues and neccessary, and you beleive that under the right circumstances, what they did would be righteous and neccessary too.

As for God commanding people to slaughter other people, let me ask this. Is it okay for the people who were slaughtered to kill people who loved God in truly horrific ways, blaspheme constantly, worship false gods, live in perverted ways, and so many other things?

What are the exact details of what they were doing? in each and every instance of genocide?

I'm sure you'll agree that if there is a perfect God out there, then His mind is much more rational then ours and His methods, even if they seem kind of off to you, must be for a greater good that our limited minds can't see yet.

Or the god described in the old testament is not the perfect god out there.
But you believe that he is, and so anything he commanded is perfect, no matter what it is. You have no moral compass of your own, only a belief in a god. If you believed god told you to dash a baby against a rock, you'd do it.

Also, correct me if I'm wrong but everything you've argued so far hasn't explained this:

"Have you allowed all the women to live?" he [Moses] asked them.... "Now...kill every woman who has slept with a man, but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man."
Numbers 31:1-18

'If a man has a stubborn and rebellious son ... Then shall his father and his mother ... bring him out to the elders of his city ... And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die'
Deuteronomy 21:18-21

'Some small boys came out of the city and jeered at the prophet Elisha, sayiong, "Go up, you baldhead! Go up, you baldhead!" And ... he cursed them in the name of the Lord. And two she-bears came out of the woods and tore forty-two of the boys.'
II Kings 2:23-24

http://www.christianforums.com/editpost.php?do=editpost&p=53225968

I suppose the boys in this verse were predestined to be evil?

 

[kevlite2020]

rainycity, why ask questions if you refuse to agree to disagree with the answers? I think God is the perfect moral compass to set us by. We don't need to go around slaughtering people because we aren't supposed to be judges of this world, He is. The things in the Old Testament, there's no way around it, was gruesome in many ways, but also necessary. It was necessary to do all the things that happened to get to Jesus, to get to salvation, so that we can all have eternal life. I'm sorry you are having trouble getting around some of those verses, but I've found it fairly easy to make peace with myself. I trust God and I trust that His plan, while I may not understand it perfectly, is perfect. I will never try to think I'm smarter than God and question His ways because I'm not smart enough to outsmart Him.

 

[rainycity]

rainycity, why ask questions if you refuse to agree to disagree with the answers?

I can agree to disagree, but I'd like to know this:

Explain what a baby could do to not be innocent and be deserving of death. You don't believe in reincarnation, so a baby is a totally new soul.

So we don't have free will, obviously. If souls can be predestined to be good or wicked. A different environment or a different upbringing can't change the actions a baby will take and the person it will eventually become?

What exactly were the people doing to deserve to be slaughtered, in every instance of biblical history where the israelites committed genocide, and what is the evidence of what they were doing.
What were the people who were originally living in canaan doing to deserve genocide?

What are the exact details of what they were doing? in each and every instance of genocide?

and what you think of this:

An entire community of worshippers of the true god, being favoured and watched over god, with people who have a direct line of communication to god, and yet they can't bare having a few people with other beleifs living among them, can't convert them apparently or even have them living in separate countries, so much that they need to go the extent of genocide and child murder.

The things in the Old Testament, there's no way around it, was gruesome in many ways, but also necessary. It was necessary to do all the things that happened to get to Jesus, to get to salvation, so that we can all have eternal life.

Why/how was it neccessary?

 

[acorn_777]

So a righteous judge demands innocent children to be slaughtered? For babies to be dashed against rocks?

Happy is he who repays you for what you have done to us — he who seizes your infants and dashes them against the rocks!
Psalm 137:8-9

The people of Samaria must bear their guilt, because they have rebelled against their God. They will fall by the sword: their little ones will be dashed to the ground, their pregnant women ripped open.
Hosea 13:16

Maybe god gives and takes away, if that is his choice why can't he take their lives away and not command people to slaughter them?
If they were living a sinful life, why couldn't the israelites at least spare the children and raise them the right way?

Would the holocaust have been righteous if god ordered the nazis to do it?

Boy! That is really taken out of context. I have a question for you. If you desire to take every sentence of the Bible literally and attribute all these things to God then why do you not post all the good attributes to God?

Your first verse is David speaking his mind about anyone that will come up against God or His people, and basically his wishes to them. How do you see that as God speaking of dashing babies?

And again in Hosea, this is NOT God doing these things. This is the writers words describing what will happen to these people. The writer is going from direct word from God to prophecy of a tribe, there is a difference.

So if you were actually there at one of these genocides and you watched israelites slaughter men, women, screaming children, elderly people, and pick up babies and smash them to the ground, you'd still be able to say its a righteous thing for the israelites to do and for god to command? what if you were walking through a park one day and there were a group of mothers with infants and men suddenly came charging towards them, tore away the kids and smashed them onto rocks? Would you still feel ok knowing that god ordered people to do the same thing?

You should start by reading basic commentaries, from people who spent their whole life reading the Bible. I am not saying to agree with every commentary, but it does help to shed some light into these apostate sayings that are spreading like wildfire on the internet.

Everything you just mentioned is far from what is actually depicted.

 

[acorn_777]

"Have you allowed all the women to live?" he [Moses] asked them.... "Now...kill every woman who has slept with a man, but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man."
Numbers 31:1-18

Again, please study a little more before saying that God commanded genocide.

Reading on we see that because of Israel's sin, God DID cause them to wonder in the wilderness 40 years, until THAT generation was gone. When did they sin? Could it have been for their carelessness of another human, or doing things they weren't suppose to do in your Number 31:1-18?
Numbers 32:13
And the LORD’S anger was kindled against Israel, and he made them wander in the wilderness forty years, until all the generation, that had done evil in the sight of the LORD, was consumed

'If a man has a stubborn and rebellious son ... Then shall his father and his mother ... bring him out to the elders of his city ... And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die'
Deuteronomy 21:18-21

This is Moses speaking, not God, addressing God as well as Israel. Have you read the Bible?

I know every denomination is different, but do you pertain the same ideas about Paul? Do you believe that God does not permit women to wear jewelry, just because Paul was addressing a group of people?

'Some small boys came out of the city and jeered at the prophet Elisha, sayiong, "Go up, you baldhead! Go up, you baldhead!" And ... he cursed them in the name of the Lord. And two she-bears came out of the woods and tore forty-two of the boys.'
II Kings 2:23-24

Wow! One actually worthy of a discussion. There are some scholars that say the word 'tare' here can also mean 'cleave'. It is also suggested that this may imply that they were mauled in modern words. The NIV actually uses the word 'mauled', implying they were injured.

 

[acorn_777]

I can agree to disagree, but I'd like to know this:









and what you think of this:






Why/how was it neccessary?

I believe that I have explained every verse you have so eloquently attributed to God as a narcissistic entity to be FALSE, and misapplied.

Now, do you believe in Jesus since I have explained these things?

waiting........

 

[kevlite2020]

Originally Posted by rainycity

Explain what a baby could do to not be innocent and be deserving of death. You don't believe in reincarnation, so a baby is a totally new soul.
​

Originally Posted by rainycity

So we don't have free will, obviously. If souls can be predestined to be good or wicked. A different environment or a different upbringing can't change the actions a baby will take and the person it will eventually become?
​

Originally Posted by rainycity

What exactly were the people doing to deserve to be slaughtered, in every instance of biblical history where the israelites committed genocide, and what is the evidence of what they were doing.
What were the people who were originally living in canaan doing to deserve genocide?
​

Originally Posted by rainycity

What are the exact details of what they were doing? in each and every instance of genocide?
​

First, God knows everything we will do. I have a feeling this might turn into one of this vicious predestination cycles, but just to risk it I'll give it a shot. God knowing what we are going to do doesn't mean we can't do whatever we want. We have the free will to do absolutely anything our heart desires. It just won't surprise Him. That means, if there is a baby born 2 days old, God already knows exactly what's going to happen to that baby and inside that baby for every day of its life. So yes, it's perfectly acceptable to think that God is perfectly aware of how babies will turn out.

It's interesting that you are asking for evidence about wars and battles fought well in the B.C.'s. I am not well studied on archeology/history, so I do not know what physical evidence is available from those times to us. I don't know what kind of evidence you are looking for to begin with. Do you want to see evidence that battles actually took place in that time frame? Evidence that the people were wicked who died? If so, what evidence would actually suffice for you? It seems like an unreasonable type of question to ask, as I don't see how you could even expect an answer that could provide for it accurately.

Wish I could be of more help, but you are asking questions that cannot be answered in the way you wish.

 

[bsd31]

The LORD commands: “kill without showing pity or compassion. Slaughter old men, young men and maidens, women and children”
—Ezekiel 9:5-6

I feel that you should stop trying to justify your own wickedness and depravity by attempting to equate human wrong doing with Godly judgment. Vast and huge difference.

 

[aiki]

The LORD commands: “kill without showing pity or compassion. Slaughter old men, young men and maidens, women and children”
—Ezekiel 9:5-6

Do you know the context in which this verse appears? A wise man once said, "A text taken out of context becomes a pretext." This is what you appear to have done in using this verse - out of context - as a pretext for asserting evil things about God. If you were truly interested in understanding the God of the Bible, you would take into account all of what the Bible says about Him before drawing your conclusions as to His nature and purposes. Instead, you have chosen to use verses out of context, ignoring the positive characterizations and actions of God recorded elsewhere in the Bible, to paint a kind of distorted, cartoonish version of God that fits more easily with your prejudices and beliefs.

Why not just skip all this obvious misrepresentation and oversimplification of the God revealed in Scripture and simply be honest and say, "I hate God"?

Peace.