How do you feel about cameras in church knowing the whole world will be able to see what you're doing if they broadcast online which many do?

[Richard.20.12]

This would really make me feel really uncomfortable if I was in the congregation and some predatory camera was in my face looking for a reaction to what the speaker was saying. It would make me become far less reactionary to what was being said. Who wants that? To feel stifled in church? Once the footage is online it can be grabbed by anyone and manipulated. I really wish churches would have the camera pointed only on the stage and nowhere else. Or if it pans the crowd do it fast so we can't discern individual faces. But it seems we're getting so used to cameras people just don't care. Church is a personal experience. And being a Christian is something a lot of people really detest. Why enable them so easily? It also makes people that are known publicly to absolutely never go to such a church.

 

[PloverWing]

I'd feel uncomfortable about cameras pointed at the congregation too.

Our church began livestreaming our services during COVID, and because we found it enables people to connect with us even if they're sick or elderly or out of town, we plan to continue livestreaming indefinitely. But our camera is just aimed at the front of the church, so you can see the lectors and the sermon and the Eucharist and a bit of the choir, and that's it. I had a bit of nerves the first few times I read the Scripture readings, knowing it was going out over the Internet, but it's already public speaking, so I've adjusted. Aiming the camera at the congregation is entirely different; you shouldn't have to be monitoring the expression on your face when you're trying to listen or pray. I'll add that a couple of our members, for personal reasons, do not want to have their faces shown on the Internet, and we're very careful to accommodate them and keep them off camera. Churches need to be sensitive to specific needs like that, in addition to having a general sensitivity about their congregation.

Maybe it's worth talking to your pastor about. They may not be aware of how uncomfortable the camera makes you.

 

[chevyontheriver]

This would really make me feel really uncomfortable if I was in the congregation and some predatory camera was in my face looking for a reaction to what the speaker was saying. It would make me become far less reactionary to what was being said. Who wants that? To feel stifled in church? Once the footage is online it can be grabbed by anyone and manipulated. I really wish churches should have the camera pointed only on the stage and nowhere else. Or if it pans the crowd do it fast so we can't discern individual faces. But it seems we're getting so used to cameras people just don't care. Church is a personal experience. And being a Christian is something a lot of people really detest. Why enable them so easily? It also makes people that are known publicly absolutely never go to such a church.

They should be forced to ask you to sign a waver before using your image. Particularly if there is any minor in your family. I don't know if they would be legally forced to ask you about a waver, but maybe if you mentioned that to them they would cease and desist,

My parish only focuses on the altar. And they do make it available on Youtube, at least without being in my face ever.

 

[GodLovesCats]

This would really make me feel really uncomfortable if I was in the congregation and some predatory camera was in my face looking for a reaction to what the speaker was saying. It would make me become far less reactionary to what was being said. Who wants that? To feel stifled in church? Once the footage is online it can be grabbed by anyone and manipulated. I really wish churches should have the camera pointed only on the stage and nowhere else. Or if it pans the crowd do it fast so we can't discern individual faces. But it seems we're getting so used to cameras people just don't care. Church is a personal experience. And being a Christian is something a lot of people really detest. Why enable them so easily? It also makes people that are known publicly absolutely never go to such a church.

Cameras only show the pastor on the stage on Vineyard church websites. You would feel safe going there.

 

[Sam-Colin]

WHY would anyone feel uncomfortable? The other congregants can see you, so what is the difference between them and viewers on line? You are there to worship HIM, so shouldn't be even concerned about how someone else is reacting to whatever is being spoken/sung.

 

[chevyontheriver]

WHY would anyone feel uncomfortable? The other congregants can see you, so what is the difference between them and viewers on line? You are there to worship HIM, so shouldn't be even concerned about how someone else is reacting to whatever is being spoken/sung.

Sometimes the thought of the NSA and the Chinese and various AI units watching leaves me a bit chilled. But then the cameras for my parish broadcast don’t do congregation pans.

 

[dzheremi]

This is extremely common in Coptic Orthodox parishes in the USA and Canada (and at least some in Egypt, though I don't know to what degree), but the camera is always pointed towards the altar, never the people. Unless you're a priest, a deacon, a chanter, or a reader, the most a camera might see is the back of your head, or maybe the side of your face if you turn aside from facing the altar during certain times of the liturgy (e.g., the censing of the church, or the kiss of peace).

 

[Ceallaigh]

I don't really care. The camera would be on the pastor far more than me. And if he can live with it, so can I as just a momentary face in the crowd.

 

[9Rock9]

My church does it since COVID, but the camera crew is on the balcony pews, so I completely forget about them, anyway.

 

[mourningdove~]

This would really make me feel really uncomfortable if I was in the congregation and some predatory camera was in my face looking for a reaction to what the speaker was saying. It would make me become far less reactionary to what was being said. Who wants that? To feel stifled in church? Once the footage is online it can be grabbed by anyone and manipulated. I really wish churches should have the camera pointed only on the stage and nowhere else. Or if it pans the crowd do it fast so we can't discern individual faces. But it seems we're getting so used to cameras people just don't care. Church is a personal experience. And being a Christian is something a lot of people really detest. Why enable them so easily? It also makes people that are known publicly absolutely never go to such a church.

I get what you are saying, and agree.

I did not like it years ago, years before Covid, when churches started bringing the cameras in.
Especially in churches where members tend to express themselves more emotionally, like the Pentecostal churches.
I think much of that should be left private to the people attending the service ...
and not 'on stage' for the whole world to see.

Then we get into sticky situations, like you have mentioned.
Some people have very personal reasons for not wanting to be broadcast on tv or online.
Some people are very private about their faith, do not want some particular friends or family or associates (like employers?) to have access to this personal, private part of their lives.

But we are on cameras many places now.
Getting more and more difficult to get away from them.
Society has lost its privacy.

Fortunately, churches I frequent only broadcast certain services ... not all ...
so there is a choice, as to whether to go to a broadcasted service or not.

I will say, I appreciate many events/services that are available to view.
But even then, I prefer just to see the altar/stage platform and persons involved there.
I do not need or have a desire to 'see' who is in the rest of the church ...
or what they are doing there ...

 

[Richard.20.12]

Great points everyone.
But to Sam....."WHY would anyone feel uncomfortable? The other congregants can see you, so what is the difference between them and viewers on line? You are there to worship HIM, so shouldn't be even concerned about how someone else is reacting to whatever is being spoken/sung."
You need to understand how digital data can be used against people, how employers who detest Christians (especially if the employers/managers are gay) will seek to rid their organization of them as much as possible, how people who used to be criminals want to disassociate with bad people and have moved away from them to start a new life. They could be targeted for things "owed". There are a million reasons why people would feel very uncomfortable with cameras. You can search the entire internet with a photo now. Think of the implications of that. Some people have made dramatic changes in their life and they don't want any contact with people in their previous life. Then there's just the concept of privacy. Yes we are being surveilled all the time when we go out. The difference is that isn't live streamed worldwide. Big difference.

 

[The Liturgist]

I myself am not bothered by the idea of cameras pointed at me during worship. I attended a service at Coral Ridge Presbyterian Church in 2006 with Dr. Kennedy preaching, which was beautiful; the service occurred while there was some sort of conservative Christian leadership convention occurring which I was not signed up for, and consequently I wasn’t able to find it when I went to watch archived sermons of Dr. Kennedy after his heart attack, so I am not sure if it was broadcast, however, if it had been I would have been completely happy with that. I also did once see myself and a relative in a short video taken of an Orthodox service and we enjoyed that. However I think if a church is going to point a camera at the congregation, it is ideal if they not show the entire congregation but rather aim it so that only portions of the nave and transept are visible, so that people who do not want to appear on the film know where to stand (or sit, in churches with pews); for that matter in Orthodox churches without pews which only feature seating around the periphery for those members of the congregation who are not feeling well enough to stand, since I have often been that guy and since it is embarassing, I think it would be a good idea to not film those people who are having to use the peripheral seats or benches.

However the fact is that most churches only film the apse, or the iconostasis, the ambo, and the area immediately in front of it, where in Slavonic churches the icon of the day is displayed along with floral arrangements, or the Golgotha during Great and Holy Friday, and in some Orthodox churches such as The Church of the Nativity in Erie, PA, which is a Russian Old Rite church that is part of ROCOR, and some Greek Orthodox parishes, like St. George Southbay, the chant stands are visible as well.

As an aside,I myself am a fan of pews in Orthodox churches because some myths about them are simply wrong, for example, one actually can make a metanie if the pews are properly spaced, and the Copts are extremely good at this, for in the Coptic liturgy, it is the custom to make a metanie (prostration) when the priest chants the Epiclesis during the Divine Liturgy of St. Basil, St. Gregory the Theologian or St. Cyril, even on Sunday. Actually, the only non-Protestant churches I have attended that observe Canon XX of Nicaea at least partially are some Eastern Orthodox churches, the Syriac Orthodox Church, except insofar the kneeling prayers on Pentecost Sunday are apparently not considered to be a Vespers and thus technically happen on Sunday, and the Assyrian Church of the East, everyone else kneels or makes prostrations, including an old calendarist ex-ROCOR church I visited by accident, thinking it was ROCOR

 

[Richard.20.12]

I myself am not bothered by the idea of cameras pointed at me during worship. I attended a service at Coral Ridge Presbyterian Church in 2006 with Dr. Kennedy preaching, which was beautiful; the service occurred while there was some sort of conservative Christian leadership convention occurring which I was not signed up for, and consequently I wasn’t able to find it when I went to watch archived sermons of Dr. Kennedy after his heart attack, so I am not sure if it was broadcast, however, if it had been I would have been completely happy with that. I also did once see myself and a relative in a short video taken of an Orthodox service and we enjoyed that. However I think if a church is going to point a camera at the congregation, it is ideal if they not show the entire congregation but rather aim it so that only portions of the nave and transept are visible, so that people who do not want to appear on the film know where to stand (or sit, in churches with pews); for that matter in Orthodox churches without pews which only feature seating around the periphery for those members of the congregation who are not feeling well enough to stand, since I have often been that guy and since it is embarassing, I think it would be a good idea to not film those people who are having to use the peripheral seats or benches.

However the fact is that most churches only film the apse, or the iconostasis, the ambo, and the area immediately in front of it, where in Slavonic churches the icon of the day is displayed along with floral arrangements, or the Golgotha during Great and Holy Friday, and in some Orthodox churches such as The Church of the Nativity in Erie, PA, which is a Russian Old Rite church that is part of ROCOR, and some Greek Orthodox parishes, like St. George Southbay, the chant stands are visible as well.

As an aside,I myself am a fan of pews in Orthodox churches because some myths about them are simply wrong, for example, one actually can make a metanie if the pews are properly spaced, and the Copts are extremely good at this, for in the Coptic liturgy, it is the custom to make a metanie (prostration) when the priest chants the Epiclesis during the Divine Liturgy of St. Basil, St. Gregory the Theologian or St. Cyril, even on Sunday. Actually, the only non-Protestant churches I have attended that observe Canon XX of Nicaea at least partially are some Eastern Orthodox churches, the Syriac Orthodox Church, except insofar the kneeling prayers on Pentecost Sunday are apparently not considered to be a Vespers and thus technically happen on Sunday, and the Assyrian Church of the East, everyone else kneels or makes prostrations, including an old calendarist ex-ROCOR church I visited by accident, thinking it was ROCOR

Your idea for set areas being on camera is excellent. Never thought of that but it's such an obvious solution. It allows them to get crowd feedback and give whoever wants it, privacy. The problem is I don't think many churches have thought of this novel solution. Or maybe they did and are using it so skillfully that I don't realize it.

Most of us are not Orthodox so we don't have a clue what you're talking about when you use Orthodox terminology. I find it interesting that in our Bible this is no mention of denominations. Just the Word, plain and simple. God wants His message of salvation through Jesus clear. Man likes to complicate things to control aspects of society so his life is easier. We can get so wrapped up in denominational nonsense. Look at the Catholics for the worst example of this, doing things clearly not scriptural, not even close to scripture. In fact many things, like praying to Mary, are very unscriptural yet they persist, led astray by a leadership that has wandered away from the Word, long ago. In short, denominations don't matter. The Bible matters and nothing else. Don't get distracted by your denomination. It will always lead you away from the Word sooner or later. Many people spend way more time in denominational activities than in the Bible and Bible study. How useless is that? Our denomination is not going to help us at the end of our life. Only our faith in the Son. Hey, look at the Talmud for denominational nonsense taken to the heights of absurdity!

 

[Richard.20.12]

You said you are not bothered with your image online. Well read a little about AI and you may be bothered. A lot. People can take your likeness and make a video so it looks like you're talking on that video. It's called deep fakes. And it's getting better and better. In a few years it will be indistinguishable from the real thing, but even now it can be rather convincing and many videos have fooled many people so far and they're just getting started in this technology. That's why you don't want your image in the public domain.

 

[chevyontheriver]

We can get so wrapped up in denominational nonsense. Look at the Catholics for the worst example of this, doing things clearly not scriptural, not even close to scripture. In fact many things, like praying to Mary, are very unscriptural yet they persist, led astray by a leadership that has wandered away …

You managed to bring some denominational nonsense into an otherwise non-denominated discussion. Did you really NEED to do that? Will the discussion now degrade into intolerant attacks by people who are not particularly clued in to what they are objecting to? You could have ended things at the end of your first paragraph and all would have been well.

 

[Sam-Colin]

Sometimes the thought of the NSA and the Chinese and various AI units watching leaves me a bit chilled. But then the cameras for my parish broadcast don’t do congregation pans.

and if you are SO concerned about them when you are in Church, you are NOT there for the right reason. HE has a lot more power/authority than any mere human. If you don't / CAN'T trust HIM, then you should stay away from the church. You are raising up more objections and, as I read it, do / can not trust the Creator to BE there with you should anything come from having your face shown.

 

[The Liturgist]

You said you are not bothered with your image online. Well read a little about AI and you may be bothered. A lot. People can take your likeness and make a video so it looks like you're talking on that video. It's called deep fakes. And it's getting better and better. In a few years it will be indistinguishable from the real thing, but even now it can be rather convincing and many videos have fooled many people so far and they're just getting started in this technology. That's why you don't want your image in the public domain.

I am a clergyman so alas I don’t have the luxury of keeping my image out of the public domain.

 

[The Liturgist]

You managed to bring some denominational nonsense into an otherwise non-denominated discussion. Did you really NEED to do that? Will the discussion now degrade into intolerant attacks by people who are not particularly clued in to what they are objecting to? You could have ended things at the end of your first paragraph and all would have been well.

Indeed that was extremely annoying. I am so sick of people taking random potshots at the Roman Catholic Church, engaging in drive by polemics. If Pope Benedict XVI was still Pope I would be Catholic right now, as you know. And if it weren’t for Traditiones Custodes I would still be considering converting despite Pope Francis. Perhaps I should join the SSPX and organize a group to celebrate the Maronite liturgy in its pre-Novus Ordo glory (the Maronite, Ambrosian and Roman rites were the only ones to be adversely affected by Vatican II, but unfortunately the Maronite is the second largest, and the Ambrosian is the only surviving non-Roman Western Rite with more than a million members).

 

[The Liturgist]

and if you are SO concerned about them when you are in Church, you are NOT there for the right reason. HE has a lot more power/authority than any mere human. If you don't / CAN'T trust HIM, then you should stay away from the church. You are raising up more objections and, as I read it, do / can not trust the Creator to BE there with you should anything come from having your face shown.

Being concerned about persecution is natural for Christians with families. I would die for Christ in a second, but I would not want my loved ones to be tortured by the modern day successors to the Securitate, the Stasi, the Cheka / NKVD / KGB, ISIS, the Young Turks, the Bashi Bazouks, and others who killed millions of Christians in the name of Islam, Socialism, Nazism, Fascism, and various combinations thereof, in the 20th century (mostly Orthodox, Assyrian and Catholic Christians, since the countries where this happened were mostly Eastern Christians).

 

[seeking.IAM]

Welcome to 2023. It is impossible to keep one's image secure. I read that 36% of U.S. homes have video door bells. Take a stroll around the neighborhood and 1 out of 3 homes captures a movie of your walk. Shop much? Go to the bank? Buy gas? They all grab your image and can do anything they want with it. If you are worrying about protecting your privacy, that ship has sailed and isn't coming back.

So, I don't mind church livestreams so much, except for one thing: When I ask myself, "Who is that old bald guy?" only to realize it is me. For the life of me, I can't figure why I look so much better in the mirror than I do on church video.