How do you feel about cameras in church knowing the whole world will be able to see what you're doing if they broadcast online which many do?

chevyontheriver

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Welcome to 2023. It is impossible to keep one's image secure. I read that 36% of U.S. homes have video door bells. Take a stroll around the neighborhood and 1 out of 3 homes captures a movie of your walk. Shop much? Go to the bank? Buy gas? They all grab your image and can do anything they want with it. If you are worrying about protecting your privacy, that ship has sailed and isn't coming back. :sailboat:

So, I don't mind church livestreams so much, except for one thing: When I ask myself, "Who is that old bald guy?" only to realize it is me. For the life of me, I can't figure why I look so much better in the mirror than I do on church video. ^_^
That ship may have sailed already but I still resist when I can. I am happy I do not have to resist this at my parish church. The only images of me I have seen there have been of the back of my head. So I think I am happy enough with that. I would not like an 'audience pan' shot though.
 
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seeking.IAM

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The only images of me I have seen there have been of the back of my head

Yes, and see that is exactly the problem. Those rear views show the progression of male pattern baldness. You can't get that view looking in the mirror and it can be a shock to the system seeing it on the livestream. :oops:
 
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Richard.20.12

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You managed to bring some denominational nonsense into an otherwise non-denominated discussion. Did you really NEED to do that? Will the discussion now degrade into intolerant attacks by people who are not particularly clued in to what they are objecting to? You could have ended things at the end of your first paragraph and all would have been well.
Ah....if you look at the thread you'll see I never mentioned anything denominational first, did I? I'm just calling out people that think their denomination is important. It's not. If it was denominations would be talked about in the Bible, right? Rather we see God commend or condemn actions and how we think. Denominations are man made nonsense. They are groups of people that seek control over others. They mean well most of the time, but as soon as we get wrapped up in group thinking we are veering away from the Word. And that's always a mistake. So many people are of a particular denomination because they grew up in it. That's not a responsible way to pick what church you go to. And I mentioned the Talmud because that is human intervention in religion taken to the ultimate absurdity.
 
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Richard.20.12

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"and if you are SO concerned about them when you are in Church, you are NOT there for the right reason. HE has a lot more power/authority than any mere human. If you don't / CAN'T trust HIM, then you should stay away from the church. You are raising up more objections and, as I read it, do / can not trust the Creator to BE there with you should anything come from having your face shown."

I know where you are coming from and theoretically that is true, but why not take precautions? Why let Satan have more power? And this is about the church electing to do something. I just love the idea of an area that is onl camera and an area that it is not. That works just perfectly. See what happens when several minds look at something? Someone often comes up with a good solution to a problem.

And realize that many tentative new believers will be VERY uncomfortable with their image plastered online so by not guaranteeing them privacy you will keep them out. That would be unwise. That hurts everyone. The point is this is unnecessary with a bit of planning.
 
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Richard.20.12

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"Yes, and see that is exactly the problem. Those rear views show the progression of male pattern baldness. You can't get that view looking in the mirror and it can be a shock to the system seeing it on the livestream."
That was indeed priceless. Nothing like unexpected humor in a serious discussion for some levity.
 
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Richard.20.12

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"That ship may have sailed already but I still resist when I can. I am happy I do not have to resist this at my parish church. The only images of me I have seen there have been of the back of my head. So I think I am happy enough with that. I would not like an 'audience pan' shot though."

I really think that the vast majority of the population, Christian and non-Christian, feels just like you do. And that is perfectly understandable. Why give out unnecessary information on anyone? It just allows the enemy more tools to work with. We just don't know who is in the congregation. We should always try to respect the privacy of others. Just like if you post a photo of something and there's a license plate in the image. A considerate person would blur out that info. Or someone posting photos of someone well known but with their kids and they blur out the faces of the kids. That's what we do when we care about the privacy of others. Christians are admonished to be considerate of others after all.
 
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chevyontheriver

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Ah....if you look at the thread you'll see I never mentioned anything denominational first, did I?
No, you waited until post 14. But you got there nonetheless.
I'm just calling out people that think their denomination is important.
If you didn't understand some of the Orthodox terminology you could of asked instead of launching into a diatribe that included "Look at the Catholics for the worst ..."
It's not. If it was denominations would be talked about in the Bible, right? Rather we see God commend or condemn actions and how we think. Denominations are man made nonsense. They are groups of people that seek control over others. They mean well most of the time, but as soon as we get wrapped up in group thinking we are veering away from the Word. And that's always a mistake. So many people are of a particular denomination because they grew up in it. That's not a responsible way to pick what church you go to. And I mentioned the Talmud because that is human intervention in religion taken to the ultimate absurdity.
I think your diatribe is a perfect example of denominational self-importance. It shows the need to attack others that don't think or believe exactly like you do. You would have been better off to have skipped that whole thing and instead have asked a question about the Orthodox vocabulary you didn't have a clue about. You might have learned something in the process.
 
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The Liturgist

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That ship may have sailed already but I still resist when I can. I am happy I do not have to resist this at my parish church. The only images of me I have seen there have been of the back of my head. So I think I am happy enough with that. I would not like an 'audience pan' shot though.

Indeed, there is an actual risk of persecution of the laity and indeed the torture of young children in the event of a shift in the politics of a country, such as happened to the Syriac, Armenian and Greek Christians in the Ottoman Empire in 1915, the Russian Orthodox and Catholics, and also the minuscule Protestant population, in the former Russian Empire in 1917 (most Protestants left Russian jurisdiction when the Baltic States and Finland became independent, only to be returned in the former case due to the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact under which the Nazis agreed that Stalin could annex the Baltic States without Nazi Germany invading the Soviet Union as an immediate response; that Molotov did such a deal with a convicted and executed war criminal, von Ribbentrop, was controversial in the Kremlin after Stalin’s death in 1953), or Jews, Catholics of Roma ethnicity (also known as “Gypsies”), and confessing Lutherans and Eastern Orthodox Christians, some of whom were also Roma, in Germany in the 1930s. A genocide could happen in the US or Canada or Europe if a political shift occurred.

This is why I both support webcasting and simultaneously believe that unrestricted audience pans that occurred at churches like the Crystal Cathedral or at Coral Ridge during the ministries of Rev. Schuller and Dr. James Kennedy, both of blessed memory, are unsafe. People need to be informed of the camera angle.

However, conversely, some people may want to take the risk and be on camera, and this is good; we must remind ourselves that martyrdom is equivalent to instant salvation and instant sainthood. A crown of martyrdom is painful to receive but worth it in the eternal scheme of things. However, because most parents don’t want to see their children cut to pieces as happened to the Armenian Orthodox, Armenian Catholic (probably most Armenian Catholics, actually), Syriac Orthodox, Assyrian, Syriac Catholic, and Pontic Greek Orthodox Christians in 1915, in the genocide that the Syriac Orthodox call the Sayfo, meaning “the Sword” owing to the modus operandi of the Turkish practitioners of the genocide, who conducted it in a much more brutal and less organized manner than the Kafkaesque mechanized nightmare of the Holocaust, with both being equally horrific, but in different respects), or marched off to gas chambers, it seems reasonable to demarcate which areas of the church will be filmed, as a safety precaution.

I am not calling for dissimulation and I think it ideal that families in solidarity make themselves visible, but the risk is real and we cannot ask people to take it. Also as a practical measure it is desirable to avoid the complete annihilation of Christians that resulted in some historical genocides against our religion, for example, in North Africa, Nubia (the Sudan), the island of Socotra off the coast of Yemen, or for that matter the ethnic cleansing in which Christians were forcibly removed from Turkey as part of a population exchange with Greece after WWII, and Turks likewise removed from Greece, this pattern repeating itself on Cyprus after the illegal Turkish conquest of North Cyprus, and also in the Balkans, distastefully along sectarian lines in some cases (also in Ireland).

The danger against Christians thus becomes more pronounced when we recall the plight of Catholics in Elizabethan England, and surrounding lands which were under English control although not yet formally united as one Kingdom, or the plight of Huguenots in France and Waldensians in Piedmont (Italy), who experienced a genocide known as the Piedmont Easter. Christians unfortunately are known to succumb to demonic temptations to kill other Christians in fratricide, as Cain killed Abel, and consequently, the risk of martyrdom from sectarian violence is always present in addition to the risk of martyrdom at the hands of Muslims, extremist totalitarian elements such as Bolsheviks and Nazis, and other political movements such as that of the Young Turks, from whom many of the instigators of the genocide in 1915 originated.
 
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The Liturgist

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@chevyontheriver I mentioned Orthodox and also traditional Western liturgical practices because the differences between these, and, for example, contemporary evangellcal worship, in terms of church architecture, configuration, the way in which services are conducted with processions and so on, is topical when discussing how to film them with respect to privacy. It distresses me to see that such an innocuous post was used as a jumping-off point for polemics against Catholics, Orthodox, other Christian denominations of any sort and also Rabinnical Judaism, and I find the whole scenario unsavory and unsettling, and also personally embarrassing. Consequently I thank you for your solidarity with myself and with other liturgical Christians, and with Eastern and Oriental Orthodox Christians, and with the Jews, and appreciate your friendship.
 
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chevyontheriver

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@chevyontheriver I mentioned Orthodox and also traditional Western liturgical practices because the differences between these, and, for example, contemporary evangellcal worship, in terms of church architecture, configuration, the way in which services are conducted with processions and so on, is topical when discussing how to film them with respect to privacy. It distresses me to see that such an innocuous post was used as a jumping-off point for polemics against Catholics, Orthodox, other Christian denominations of any sort and also Rabinnical Judaism, and I find the whole scenario unsavory and unsettling, and also personally embarrassing. Consequently I thank you for your solidarity with myself and with other liturgical Christians, and with Eastern and Oriental Orthodox Christians, and with the Jews, and appreciate your friendship.
There are a broad swath of us, from Catholic to Orthodox to Protestant, who are not out to get each other. And a few who are. Those guys do what they think they have to do to be faithful to God. It is unsavory but I think we just have to put up with it, maybe educating them a bit if they aren't totally closed off to learning something, and letting God work on their souls. Thanks for your examples. I always learn something.
 
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