How do you : "Fall from Grace"

Brightfame52 · Apr 2, 2021

JLB777 said:
They way Paul tells us how he obeyed the Lord, in turning them away from Satan was calling them to repent; turn to God.

“Therefore, King Agrippa, I was not disobedient to the heavenly vision, but declared first to those in Damascus and in Jerusalem, and throughout all the region of Judea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent, turn to God, and do works befitting repentance. Acts 26:19-20

JLB

You have it all wrong, Paul was sent to be an instrument of the Lord to turn them, convert them Acts 26:17-18

17 Delivering thee from the people, and from the Gentiles, unto whom now I send thee,

18 To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.

Danthemailman · Apr 2, 2021

JLB777 said:
that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. Romans 10:9-0

If we have not believed in our heart and confessed with our mouth, Jesus as Lord, we will not be saved; born again, regenerated.

This is obeying the gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ.

It is how we obey the Gospel command to repent.

This is called the obedience of faith.

But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith: Romans 16:26

JLB

You need to go back and read posts #320 #324 and #330 in this thread. Also go back and read post #91 from the link below:

Faith alone? How much faith?

JLB777 · Apr 3, 2021

Brightfame52 said:
You have it all wrong, Paul was sent to be an instrument of the Lord to turn them, convert them Acts 26:17-18

17 Delivering thee from the people, and from the Gentiles, unto whom now I send thee,

18 To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.

Yes Paul preached that we must repent, turn to God.

to open their eyes, in order to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith in Me.’ “Therefore, King Agrippa, I was not disobedient to the heavenly vision, but declared first to those in Damascus and in Jerusalem, and throughout all the region of Judea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent, turn to God, and do works befitting repentance. Acts 26:18-20

JLB

Danthemailman · Apr 3, 2021

JLB777 said:
Yes, believe Jesus.

Those who obey Him will receive eternal life.

Descriptive of believers and not unbelievers.

He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.”
John 3:36

I often hear works-salvationists quote John 3:36 in the NASB and "stress" the word "obey" to imply that we are saved by obedience/works which "follows" believing in Christ unto salvation. In regards to "does not obey the Son" in the New American Standard translation of the Bible, this does not mean that receiving eternal life is received based on the merits of our obedience/works which follows believing in the Son, but obey by choosing to believe in the Son. If John wanted to make obedience the central theme in salvation here, he would have said: "He who believes and obeys the Son has eternal life," but that is not what John said. To obey the Son here is to choose to believe in the Son.

The King James Version renders this same verse as: He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that "believeth not the Son" shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him. The NIV says "rejects the Son" and the HCSB says, "refuses to believe in the Son." The Greek word translated as "believeth not" in that verse is apeitheo and it means: "not believe, disobedient, obey not, unbelieving." Strong’s definition of apeitheo is "to disbelieve willfully and perversely." In the context of 3:36, to "not obey the Son" means to reject the Son by refusing to believe in the Son.

JLB777 · Apr 3, 2021

Danthemailman said:
You need to go back and read posts #320 #324 and #330 in this thread. Also go back and read post #91 from the link below:

Faith alone? How much faith?

No such thing as “faith alone”.

Faith by itself is dead.

Faith must be accompanied by obedience or it is incomplete, and dead.

Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.
James 2:17

Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect?
James 2:21-22

For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also. James 2:26

That’s why Paul calls it the obedience of faith.

But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith: Romans 16:26

Do you believe we must obey the Gospel to be saved?

Yes?
No?

JLB

JLB777 · Apr 3, 2021

Danthemailman said:
Descriptive of believers and not unbelievers.

I often hear works-salvationists quote John 3:36 in the NASB and "stress" the word "obey" to imply that we are saved by obedience/works which "follows" believing in Christ unto salvation. In regards to "does not obey the Son" in the New American Standard translation of the Bible, this does not mean that receiving eternal life is received based on the merits of our obedience/works which follows believing in the Son, but obey by choosing to believe in the Son. If John wanted to make obedience the central theme in salvation here, he would have said: "He who believes and obeys the Son has eternal life," but that is not what John said. To obey the Son here is to choose to believe in the Son.

The King James Version renders this same verse as: He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that "believeth not the Son" shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him. The NIV says "rejects the Son" and the HCSB says, "refuses to believe in the Son." The Greek word translated as "believeth not" in that verse is apeitheo and it means: "not believe, disobedient, obey not, unbelieving." Strong’s definition of apeitheo is "to disbelieve willfully and perversely." In the context of 3:36, to "not obey the Son" means to reject the Son by refusing to believe in the Son.

And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him, Hebrews 5:9

Do you believe Christians need to obey the Lord Jesus in order to receive eternal salvation?

JLB

Danthemailman · Apr 3, 2021

JLB777 said:
No such thing as “faith alone”.

There is such a thing as faith that "trusts in Christ alone" for salvation, yet those who trust in works for salvation cannot grasp this deeper faith.

Faith by itself is dead.

In context, James is talking about an empty profession of faith/dead faith that remains alone "barren of works" (James 2:14) which is not to be confused with faith that trusts in Jesus Christ alone for salvation and not in works. (Ephesians 2:8,9) We are saved FOR good works and NOT BY good works. (Ephesians 2:10)

Faith must be accompanied by obedience or it is incomplete, and dead.

If someone merely "claims" to have faith, yet their alleged faith is not accompanied by works, then such a person demonstrates that they have a bare profession of faith/dead faith. In James 2:22, faith made perfect or complete by works means bring to maturity, to complete like love in 1 John 4:18. It does not mean that Abraham was finally saved based on merits of his works after he offered up Isaac on the altar in Genesis 22. When Abraham performed the good work in Genesis 22; he fulfilled the expectations created by the pronouncement of his faith in Genesis 15:6. Remember that Abraham was accounted as righteous based on his faith (Genesis 15:6) not his works (Romans 4:2-3) long before he offered up Isaac on the altar in Genesis 22.

Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.
James 2:17

In James 2:14, we read of one who says/claims to have faith but has no works (to evidence their claim). That is not genuine faith, but a bare profession of faith. So when James asks, "Can that faith save him?" he is saying nothing against genuine faith, but only against an empty profession of faith/dead faith. So James does not teach that we are saved "by" works. His concern is to show the reality of the faith professed by the individual (James 2:18) and demonstrate that the faith claimed (James 2:14) by the individual is genuine. Simple!

Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect?
James 2:21-22

In James 2:21, notice closely that James does not say that Abraham's work of offering up Isaac resulted in God accounting Abraham as righteous. The accounting of Abraham's faith as righteousness was made in Genesis 15:6, many years before his work of offering up Isaac recorded in Genesis 22. The work of Abraham did not have some kind of intrinsic merit to account him as righteous, but it showed or manifested the genuineness of his faith. This is the "sense" in which Abraham was "justified by works." He was shown to be righteous.

For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also. James 2:26

In James 2:26, the comparison of the human spirit and faith converges around their modes of operation. The spirit (Greek pneuma) may also be translated "breath." As a breathless body exhibits no indication of life, so fruitless faith exhibits no indication of life. The source of the life in faith is not works; rather, life in faith is the source of works (Ephesians 2:5-10). You have it backwards.

*So "faith without works is dead" does not mean that faith is dead until it produces works and then it becomes a living faith or that works are the source of life in faith. That's like saying a tree is dead until it produces fruit and then it becomes a living tree and the fruit is the source of life in the tree. James is simply saying faith that is not accompanied by evidential works is dead. Again, if someone merely says-claims they have faith but lack resulting evidential works, then they demonstrate that they have an empty profession of faith/dead faith and not authentic faith. Simple!

That’s why Paul calls it the obedience of faith.

But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith: Romans 16:26

I already explained what Paul meant by the obedience of faith in post #91 from the link below:

Faith alone? How much faith?

Do you believe we must obey the Gospel to be saved?

Yes?
No?

Yes and we obey the gospel by choosing to believe the gospel. Romans 10:16 - But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our report?”

Danthemailman · Apr 3, 2021

JLB777 said:
And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him, Hebrews 5:9

So who obeys Him? The saved or the lost? I've heard many works-salvationists use this verse to try and support salvation by works. Only believers have obeyed Him by choosing to believe the gospel (Romans 1:16) in order to become saved, and only believers obey Him after they have been saved through faith by practicing righteousness, unlike the children of the devil. (1 3:7-10) In either sense, believers obey Him.

Unbelievers have not obeyed Him by refusing to believe the gospel (Romans 10:16) and without faith its impossible to please God (Hebrews 11:6), so unbelievers do not obey Him no matter how much "so-called" obedience that they attempt to conjure up through the flesh in a vain effort to obtain salvation based on their works. So in either sense, unbelievers do not obey Him.

Do you believe Christians need to obey the Lord Jesus in order to receive eternal salvation?

We obey the Lord unto salvation by choosing to believe the gospel. (Romans 1:16; 10:16) Is any of this getting through to you at all? Do you actually read what I share with you? Sometimes I feel like I'm talking to a robot.

Brightfame52 · Apr 3, 2021

JLB777 said:
Yes Paul preached that we must repent, turn to God.

to open their eyes, in order to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith in Me.’ “Therefore, King Agrippa, I was not disobedient to the heavenly vision, but declared first to those in Damascus and in Jerusalem, and throughout all the region of Judea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent, turn to God, and do works befitting repentance. Acts 26:18-20

JLB

That scripture says Paul was sent to turn them to God Acts 26:18
18 To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.

JLB777 · Apr 4, 2021

Danthemailman said:
There is such a thing as faith that "trusts in Christ alone"

Yes. Our trust is in Christ alone, for He alone is our salvation.

JLB

JLB777 · Apr 4, 2021

Danthemailman said:
So who obeys Him? The saved or the lost? I've heard many works-salvationists use this verse to try and support salvation by works. Only believers have obeyed Him by choosing to believe the gospel (Romans 1:16) in order to become saved, and only believers obey Him after they have been saved through faith by practicing righteousness, unlike the children of the devil. (1 3:7-10) In either sense, believers obey Him.

Unbelievers have not obeyed Him by refusing to believe the gospel (Romans 10:16) and without faith its impossible to please God (Hebrews 11:6), so unbelievers do not obey Him no matter how much "so-called" obedience that they attempt to conjure up through the flesh in a vain effort to obtain salvation based on their works. So in either sense, unbelievers do not obey Him.

We obey the Lord unto salvation by choosing to believe the gospel. (Romans 1:16; 10:16) Is any of this getting through to you at all? Do you actually read what I share with you? Sometimes I feel like I'm talking to a robot.

After we are born again, we are instructed that we must remain in Christ.

If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:6

Here’s how this same John instructs us to remain in Christ —

Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us. 1 John 3:24

JLB

Danthemailman · Apr 4, 2021

JLB777 said:
After we are born again, we are instructed that we must remain in Christ.

If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:6

Here’s how this same John instructs us to remain in Christ —

Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us. 1 John 3:24

JLB

That’s not trusting in Christ alone for salvation, but is trusting in commandment keeping/works for salvation. He who keeps (guards, observes, watches over) His commandments is descriptive of those who abide in Christ. 1 John 2:3 - By this we know that we have come to know Him, (already know Him/already saved/demonstrative evidence) if we keep His commandments.

In regards to John 15:6, there are two kinds of connections with Christ as the vine (the merely cosmic which bears no fruit, the spiritual and vital which bears fruit). The fruitless (not bearing fruit, mh peron karpon) the vine-dresser "takes away" (airei) or prunes away. Probably (Bernard) Jesus here refers to Judas..

John 15:2 Commentary - Robertson's Word Pictures of the New Testament

JLB777 · Apr 8, 2021

Danthemailman said:
That’s not trusting in Christ alone for salvation, but is trusting in commandment keeping/works for salvation.

We must trust in Christ, and His Spirit to empower us to walk according to the Spirit, and practice righteousness.

Keeping His commandments is obeying the Lord.

Why would anyone who has the Spirit of Christ, dwelling within them, want to murder, or lie or commit adultery or worship other gods, or steal....

If we claim to know Him, that is to say, have eternal life, but we don’t keep His commandments, which are expressions of love, then the Bible says we are liars and the truth is not in us.

He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 1 John 2:4

His Commandments are the guardrails of love, and those who have the Spirit, find that keeping His commandments are not burdensome.

For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome. For whatever is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith. 1 John 5:3-4

If you are burdened and struggling with not murdering or not committing adultery or not lying , you may want to check yourself to see if you are in the faith.

People of faith overcome, because we have His Spirit to empower us to overcome the world; the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life.

Here is the fate of those who don’t choose to overcome.

He who overcomes shall inherit all things, and I will be his God and he shall be My son. But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.” Revelation 21:7-8

JLB

Danthemailman · Apr 8, 2021

JLB777 said:
We must trust in Christ, and His Spirit to empower us to walk according to the Spirit, and practice righteousness.

Keeping His commandments is obeying the Lord.

Why would anyone who has the Spirit of Christ, dwelling within them, want to murder, or lie or commit adultery or worship other gods, or steal....

If we claim to know Him, that is to say, have eternal life, but we don’t keep His commandments, which are expressions of love, then the Bible says we are liars and the truth is not in us.

He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 1 John 2:4

His Commandments are the guardrails of love, and those who have the Spirit, find that keeping His commandments are not burdensome.

For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome. For whatever is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith. 1 John 5:3-4

If you are burdened and struggling with not murdering or not committing adultery or not lying, you may want to check yourself to see if you are in the faith.

Again, he who keeps (guards, observes, watches over) His commandments is descriptive of those who abide in Christ. 1 John 2:3 - By this we know that we have come to know Him, (already know Him/already saved/demonstrative evidence) if we keep His commandments.

1 John 3:7 - Little children, make sure no one deceives you; the one who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous; 8 the one who practices sin is of the devil; for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The Son of God appeared for this purpose, to destroy the works of the devil. 9 No one who has been born of God practices sin, because His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin continually, because he has been born of God. 10 By this the children of God and the children of the devil are obvious: anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor the one who does not love his brother and sister.

People of faith overcome, because we have His Spirit to empower us to overcome the world; the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life.

Here is the fate of those who don’t choose to overcome.

He who overcomes shall inherit all things, and I will be his God and he shall be My son.

Descriptive of children of God. 1 John 5:4 - For whatever is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith.

But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.” Revelation 21:7-8

Descriptive of children of the devil.

Brightfame52 · Apr 8, 2021

jlb

If you are burdened and struggling with not murdering or not committing adultery or not lying , you may want to check yourself to see if you are in the faith.

Who was Peter writing to here ? 1 Pet 2:1

Wherefore laying aside all malice, and all guile, and hypocrisies, and envies, and all evil speakings,

JLB777 · Apr 11, 2021

Danthemailman said:
Again, he who keeps (guards, observes, watches over) His commandments is descriptive of those who abide in Christ. 1 John 2:3 - By this we know that we have come to know Him, (already know Him/already saved/demonstrative evidence) if we keep His commandments.

Yes the scripture is referring to those who already have eternal life because they are in Christ.

The way to remain in Christ is to keep His commandments.

Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us. 1 John 3:24

Danthemailman · Apr 11, 2021

JLB777 said:
Yes the scripture is referring to those who already have eternal life because they are in Christ.

The way to remain in Christ is to keep His commandments.

Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us. 1 John 3:24

So what you are saying is that eternal life is "maintained" by works? Keeping His commandments is 'descriptive' of those who abide in Christ. Just as "confessing that Jesus is the Son of God" is also 'descriptive' of those who abide in Christ. (1 John 4:15)

Your continued misinterpretation of scripture results in salvation by works.

From beginning "have been saved through faith" (Ephesians 2:8) to end "receiving the end of your faith--the salvation of your souls" (1 Peter 1:9) salvation is by grace through faith and is not by works. (Romans 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9 etc..).

Brightfame52 · Apr 11, 2021

jlb

The way to remain in Christ is to keep His commandments.

Thats not what scripture says. What does a branch do to remain in the Vine ?

Freed Man · Apr 23, 2021

Eilat said:
So........IN the mind of someone who is born again, who has left their original faith and are = fallen from it....

To "fall from Grace",..... is to stop wholly trusting in Christ, the way you completely did, when you first were born again.
See, everyone who is born again, initially, understands..."im a sinner, i have no hope, im hell bound, im no good, there is nothing i can do of myself to end up in Heaven, So, i rely fully, totally, ultimately, completely,, on Jesus to SAVE ME = to deal with all my sin and get me into heaven.
But then, they get flipped by a deceiver, by the Devil.
Paul teaches this as "Who has bewitched you"... in Galatians.
The born again get subverted away from their initial ultimate trust in Christ, and become turned and ruined, faith wise.
Still born again, but faith corrupted...or "in the flesh", as Paul teaches.
And this is simply to CONTINUALLY ATTEMPT to try to do for themselves, what only Jesus's Blood has = ALREADY accomplished for them.

See, this faith corrupted person can't SEE that you can't be more saved than you are, when you are born again....and remain so.
They can't SEE this, because their mind is blinded to this truth, as that is the devil's ability to cause this, by building a stronghold in their mind that is a subverting of real faith.

Salvation is COMPLETED by Jesus and given as a GIFT : "the GIFT of Salvation"... Its not to be completed, its to be received.
The mind blinded faith corrupted, can't SEE this, as this eternal truth has become veiled to them, as this is how the Law that they are trying to maintain to "stay saved", has blinded them.
Its Satan using a person's self righteousness to cause this mind blinded stronghold.

This Legalist has no FAITH anymore that Salvation is ACCOMPLISHED......
They have no enlightenment regarding why all their sins are dealt with and why they are already in the Kingdom of God and that Salvation is a completed Atonement.
Instead they are trying to both keep it and complete it., and that is how you reject Grace, misunderstand Grace, and Fall from it.

You fall from Grace by not believing in Grace.

A person who has become .."im doing this or im not to do that"..and if i keep THAT worked out i end up in heaven, but if i don't then im lost"""""" this person cannot SEE that they are deceived and are obsessed with self saving, and are not really Trusting Christ any longer to get them in to Heaven.
"Fallen from Grace".

Here is the Spiritual SUBVERSION:
= The Devil has them believing that their Working/Enduring their way into heaven, is to Trust Christ.
So, that is how upside down and subverted their faith has become... They actually BELIEVE that self saving, enduring, self effort, is to trust in Christ, and its difficult to break this stronghold, because its so invested in pride and self righteousness and spiritual deception.

So, this person, is the "i can lose my salvation, i can commit the unpardonable sin", "I have now become a teacher of the gospel of works."",, as i have been deceived into BELIEVING as my FAITH....that the self effort of ENDURING , which is a SELF EFFORT....which is a WORK, is going to keep me saved.. is going to get me into Heaven... and if i dont do this, then i will not stay saved, and i will not go to heaven."""
This means that by turning from TRUST that Christ gets you into heaven, you have turned to yourself, to ENDURE, to commandment keep.... as your Cross that decides if you go to heaven or not.
Thats LEGALISM. Thats SELF Saving.

So, all self saving, is like this.. Its all subverted faith... falling from Grace...and into a mental stronghold whereby you are now trusting in what you do to try to get yourself into heaven, instead of ONLY Trusting in what Christ has done, as "the finished work of Jesus on the Cross," to get you into heaven.. and maintain your RIGHTEOUSNESS.

See, its all about BELIEVING , = "WHAT GETS ME INTO HEAVEN".... and when a person has lost sight of the Truth..., then they are faith subverted because they have a Mental STRONGHOLD that is their spiritual blindness, and this is to "fall from Grace".
Its to exist in that spiritual blindness as your actual Faith.
And if you are there, you can't SEE it.

THE "fallen from Grace....who is the "enduring" worker, the "commandment keeper", the "torah keeper" the "holding unto my faith as my salvation" keeper......all of these are the same deceptive STRONGHOLD.......its all trying to make yourself RIGHT with God, trying to keep yourself saved..= by whatever you think gets it done that YOU ARE TO DO = that you believe accomplishes this end result.
Understand, that whatever you are trusting in to get you into heaven is now your savior, and if you believe that you can lose your salvation, then this means you not actually Trusting in Jesus to keep you saved.
You are actually contradicting Grace, and are in opposition to this verse, which is to literally be in opposition to the Cross.
Philippians 1:6

FaithWillDo · May 5, 2021

Eilat said:
So........IN the mind of someone who is born again, who has left their original faith and are = fallen from it....

To "fall from Grace",..... is to stop wholly trusting in Christ, the way you completely did, when you first were born again.
See, everyone who is born again, initially, understands..."im a sinner, i have no hope, im hell bound, im no good, there is nothing i can do of myself to end up in Heaven, So, i rely fully, totally, ultimately, completely,, on Jesus to SAVE ME = to deal with all my sin and get me into heaven.
But then, they get flipped by a deceiver, by the Devil.
Paul teaches this as "Who has bewitched you"... in Galatians.
The born again get subverted away from their initial ultimate trust in Christ, and become turned and ruined, faith wise.
Still born again, but faith corrupted...or "in the flesh", as Paul teaches.
And this is simply to CONTINUALLY ATTEMPT to try to do for themselves, what only Jesus's Blood has = ALREADY accomplished for them.

See, this faith corrupted person can't SEE that you can't be more saved than you are, when you are born again....and remain so.
They can't SEE this, because their mind is blinded to this truth, as that is the devil's ability to cause this, by building a stronghold in their mind that is a subverting of real faith.

Salvation is COMPLETED by Jesus and given as a GIFT : "the GIFT of Salvation"... Its not to be completed, its to be received.
The mind blinded faith corrupted, can't SEE this, as this eternal truth has become veiled to them, as this is how the Law that they are trying to maintain to "stay saved", has blinded them.
Its Satan using a person's self righteousness to cause this mind blinded stronghold.

This Legalist has no FAITH anymore that Salvation is ACCOMPLISHED......
They have no enlightenment regarding why all their sins are dealt with and why they are already in the Kingdom of God and that Salvation is a completed Atonement.
Instead they are trying to both keep it and complete it., and that is how you reject Grace, misunderstand Grace, and Fall from it.

A person who has become .."im doing this or im not to do that"..and if i keep THAT worked out i end up in heaven, but if i don't then im lost"""""" this person cannot SEE that they are deceived and are obsessed with self saving, and are not really Trusting Christ any longer to get them in to Heaven.
"Fallen from Grace".

Here is the Spiritual SUBVERSION:
= The Devil has them believing that their Working/Enduring their way into heaven, is to Trust Christ.
So, that is how upside down and subverted their faith has become... They actually BELIEVE that self saving, enduring, self effort, is to trust in Christ, and its difficult to break this stronghold, because its so invested in pride and self righteousness and spiritual deception.

So, this person, is the "i can lose my salvation, i can commit the unpardonable sin", "I have now become a teacher of the gospel of works."",, as i have been deceived into BELIEVING as my FAITH....that the self effort of ENDURING , which is a SELF EFFORT....which is a WORK, is going to keep me saved.. is going to get me into Heaven... and if i dont do this, then i will not stay saved, and i will not go to heaven."""
This means that by turning from TRUST that Christ gets you into heaven, you have turned to yourself, to ENDURE, to commandment keep.... as your Cross that decides if you go to heaven or not.
Thats LEGALISM. Thats SELF Saving.

So, all self saving, is like this.. Its all subverted faith... falling from Grace...and into a mental stronghold whereby you are now trusting in what you do to try to get yourself into heaven, instead of ONLY Trusting in what Christ has done, as "the finished work of Jesus on the Cross," to get you into heaven.. and maintain your RIGHTEOUSNESS.

See, its all about BELIEVING , = "WHAT GETS ME INTO HEAVEN".... and when a person has lost sight of the Truth..., then they are faith subverted because they have a Mental STRONGHOLD that is their spiritual blindness, and this is to "fall from Grace".
Its to exist in that spiritual blindness as your actual Faith.
And if you are there, you can't SEE it.

THE "fallen from Grace....who is the "enduring" worker, the "commandment keeper", the "torah keeper" the "holding unto my faith as my salvation" keeper......all of these are the same deceptive STRONGHOLD.......its all trying to make yourself RIGHT with God, trying to keep yourself saved..= by whatever you think gets it done that YOU ARE TO DO = that you believe accomplishes this end result.
Understand, that whatever you are trusting in to get you into heaven is now your savior, and if you believe that you can lose your salvation, then this means you not actually Trusting in Jesus to keep you saved.
You are actually contradicting Grace, and are in opposition to this verse, which is to literally be in opposition to the Cross.
Philippians 1:6

Dear Eilat,
A called out Christian will "fall away" (sin that leads to death) when they try to combine any "works of the flesh" with "faith". Scripture teaches that ALL who are "called out" will quickly fall away and lose their salvation. When this happens, we are deceived by Satan and our only hope is for Christ to come again and baptize us with the Latter Rain of the Spirit. The Early Rain of the Spirit (an earnest amount) does not give us enough faith nor does it heal our spiritual blindness. Satan exploits these weaknesses and deceives us into following him, all the while we think we are following the ways of Christ. At this time, our deadly head wound that Christ gave us with His Sword (Word of God) is healed and we remain a part of the seven headed beast (represents mankind).

The most common sin that leads to death is when a believer takes credit for accepting Christ. Our decision to accept Christ is not our work - it is Christ's work within us which He does BEFORE we accept Him as Lord.

1 Cor 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Spirit.

Rom 3:10-11 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

The Early Rain of the Spirit is what Saul (Paul) received from Christ on the Damascus Road. Christ came to Saul "suddenly" and gave Saul the Early Rain. Saul immediately fell to the ground and called Christ "Lord". But Saul could not see who it was who spoke to him. Christ had to tell him who He was. Then Saul had to be led by the hand because of his blindness. Saul's blindness and his being led by the hand are spiritual "types" which everyone who is called out must experience. God is not a respecter of persons. We all must follow the same path and "live" by every word that comes out of the mouth of God.

If a called out, fallen away believer has also been "chosen from the foundation of the world", then Christ will come to them a second time. This is the second coming of Christ when He comes as a thief in the night. At that time, we are dwelling in peace and safety, secure in our faith in Christ but all the while, we have been deceived by Satan and have become a Man of Sin. We have been unknowingly eating leavened bread (Matt 13:33). When Christ comes the second time to a chosen believer, Christ will destroy the Man of Sin whom they have become and from this destruction, Christ will cause them to be "born again". He heals their spiritual blindness and feeds them His truth. At this point, the believer is saved and they come out from Mystery Babylon the Great and will not receive of her plagues anymore.

Rev 18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

Saul received this baptism after he was in Damascus for three days. Because of his new birth, his name changed from Saul to Paul.

All of God's Elect are saved by following this same path:

1Tim 1:16 Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.

What I have described above is the pathway (pattern) everyone must follow if they are going to be saved in this present age. If a person is not "chosen" by Christ, then they will die in their sins and be resurrected to judgment in the final age. But from that judgment, they will be saved.

Revelation 7:9 describes this final group of mankind who will be saved at the end of the final age. It is made up of "all who died in Adam" except for Christ's chosen Elect who were saved earlier:

Rev 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

1 Cor 15:20-28 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept. For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. Then cometh the consummation, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him. And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

But for now, Christ is only saving His "first fruits" of His harvest in this present age. They are the ones whom Paul spoke of "whom the ends of ages are come":

1Cor 10:11 Now all these things happened to them as types, and have been written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the ages are come.

Joe

How do you : "Fall from Grace"

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