How Do you Define Sola Fide (Faith Alone) and is it Biblical?

[redleghunter]

Universalists don’t have true morality or justice, either; And you are avoiding the issue by not explaining how your position is moral and good.

Jason the life raft leaving people to die is a Universalist argument from the straw man that God is some monster if any perish at all. For some reason you are taking their position. Don’t know why. And trying to slander Reformed folks in doing so. It does not fit and frankly uncharacteristic of your posts.

I notice you responded to a lot but missed this:

Therefore, the question still stands. How do you choose God with a fallen human heart and mind? If all men are enlightened equally to hear the Gospel without our old natures intervening, then why do some choose God and some reject God? If all have ears to hear and eyes to see when presented with this prevenient grace why do some come to the Lord and choose Him and some reject Him? If our nature is truly restored to Eden so where we can make a true free will choice to follow Christ or reject Him, how can this be when we still have fallen flesh and are sons and daughters of the tree of knowledge of good and evil?

So please explain how prevenient grace works in those who accept and choose Christ and why prevenient grace fails for those who reject Christ. What makes one man more prone to accept and the other to reject?

This is the very heart of prevenient grace and will get nowhere until addressed.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Ok it’s against forum rules to ask you a question based on the premise of just about every accusation and assertion you make. But it’s ok for you to slander entire faith groups with impunity?

Do you not condemn my belief in the Bible that says, “faith + works = salvation”?

 

[redleghunter]

Do you not condemn my belief in the Bible that says, “faith + works = salvation”?

No I don’t condemn you. I disagee with you and still love you as a brother in Christ.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Jason the life raft leaving people to die is a Universalist argument from the straw man that God is some monster if any perish at all.

Well, I never knew they used that example before. I try not to argue with Universalists because their belief is way far out there in left field somewhere and is pure nonsense. They ignore true justice.

I also did not know they held exclusive rights to that Parable or real world example, either. I actually came up with the Parable all on my own.

Actually, Calvinists and Universalists have a siimilar problem. They both teach that what you do in this life does not ultimately matter. In Universalism, you may be punished, but all will end up in God’s kingdom in the end. So if Universalism is true, what I do does not ultimately matter in the scope of eternity. In Calvinism, only certain folks are elected or chosen by God to be saved and others are chosen to not be saved by God. So again, nothing I do ultimately matters. If I am not one of the chosen club members, then there is nothing I can do to seek forgiveness with God and have a relationship with Him. So what I do in this life does not matter. If I am chosen I cannot resist Him and His will and if I am not chosen then I am free to live life as how please. But when I talk with Calvinists, they don’t seem to focus a lot on the necessity of holiness and they appear to overstep the bounds of God's grace (in light of God's Word). At least, that is the impression I get anyways.

As for the Universalists argument using the Parable:
The analogy does not fit reality or the Bible because if a man decides to not want to be saved, and he wants to drown and or be eaten by a shark, that is his choice.

As for my use of the Parable::
Again, if a coast guard did not choose to save you and your family and they saved others, you would think it was not fair that they did not save you. But if you chose to drown yourself, that is on you. They cannot save you if you choose to kill yourself. What you do not understand is that Jesus taught us to love our enemies. This means we are to love ALL people. So if God teaches that we are to love all people, then it makes sense that God would be fair in the way that He loves us all. He sends rain on the just and the unjust. The wicked will be destroyed because they chose that path for themselves. God did not force that upon them. See if you understand anything about love, it is not forced. That would be like a man who forces his love upon a woman (when she does not feel no love for him) and he thinks that is true love. Even if he had to hypnotize her into loving her, it would still not be true love. But if she chose of her own free will to love the man back, then it would be true love because both parties agree to love each other. What Calvinism has done with God is much like a man who forces himself upon a woman by him hypnotizing her so as to get her to love him (When in reality she did not really feel that way). But Love is not forced. You cannot force love. Love is a choice.

For some reason you are taking their position. Don’t know why. And trying to slander Reformed folks in doing so. It does not fit and frankly uncharacteristic of your posts.

I am not attacking you personally but I am attacking the wrong belief.

I notice you responded to a lot but missed this:

This is the very heart of prevenient grace and will get nowhere until addressed.

Prevenient Grace allows a person to see the gospel message clearly in order to accept it, but they are not forced to do so. They have a choice. Like every other choice a person would make in the world. Should I eat that dessert late at night or not? Should I help that poor person on the side of the road or not? The choice is always ours to make and it is never forced upon us. God illumines the message of God's Word for us to see what it means, but if we refuse it, that is on us. We then choose to be spiritually blind again.

 

[redleghunter]

Prevenient Grace allows a person to see the gospel message clearly in order to accept it, but they are not forced to do so. They have a choice. Like every other choice a person would make in the world. Should I eat that dessert late at night or not? Should I help that poor person on the side of the road or not? The choice is always ours to make and it is never forced upon us. God illumines the message of God's Word for us to see what it means, but if we refuse it, that is on us. We then choose to be spiritually blind again.

Thank you for responding to this portion.

Is this insight or illumination an act of God and is it equal for everyone?

 

[mark kennedy]

Thank you for responding to this portion.

Is this insight or illumination an act of God and is it equal for everyone?

I know we have all received this much:

since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse. (Rom. 1:19-20)
​

Many receive this much:

But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference. (Rom. 3:21-22)
​

Reactions to the natural and special revelations described, vary:

The true light that gives light to everyone was coming into the world. He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him. He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him. Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God. (John 1:9-13)
​

But we all receive light.

Grace and peace,
Mark

 

[redleghunter]

But we all receive light.

Indeed but is this light the Prevenient Grace Arminians speak of. I would really like to know why some respond and some don’t and what that entails according to their theology and philosophy.

For Reformed we have an answer and it’s clearly delineated in Apostolic teachings.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Thank you for responding to this portion.

Is this insight or illumination an act of God and is it equal for everyone?

I believe Scripture when it says Christ tasted death for every man. So the act of illumination by God will happen for all men at some point in their life at God's choosing. He gives them a moment to choose the gospel of their own free will. There may be points in time where they may have heard the message of God's Word before many times but could not understand it because the devil stole the seed out of the gospel message out of their heart so that they cannot understand it. But there is a time in a person's life where God comes and shines light unto them to see the gospel in what it means so that they can understand it. For if we willfully sin after we receive the knowledge of the truth, there remains no more sacrifice for sin (Hebrews 10:26). Only God knows the best times a person's heart can be opened to hear the truth. But the Lord will open all people's hearts at some point in their life to hear the gospel because Christ draws all men unto himself. Sometimes men are not ready to hear the gospel with the understanding yet. So God chooses the right time in order for them to see.

The only exception to the rule on this is Revelation 13:8 and Revelation 17:8. Those who will worship the beast in the future never even had their names written in the book of life since the foundation of the world. But this is because God knew what their future free will choice was going to be. So this would not be Unconditional Election of the Damned (with God just not choosing them based on no reason or no condition), but it would be Conditional Election of the Damned based on God knowing what they were going to do.

 

[redleghunter]

Only God knows the best times a person's heart can be opened to hear the truth. But the Lord will open all people's hearts at some point in their life to hear the gospel because Christ draws all men unto himself. Sometimes men are not ready to hear the gospel with the understanding yet. So God chooses the right time in order for them to see.

I see you equate the drawing of all men as the Gospel. That all will hear the Gospel and have an equal chance to either choose God or reject Him.

I think you boiled down Arminian Prevenient Grace quite well.

The only thing that still goes unanswered is why some reject the Gospel and some accept it.

If we are all at some point enlightened to have ears that hear and eyes to see it means mentally and spiritually we are all equally on the same footing. That the There is no advantage and God is not being partial (a respecter of persons).

Yet some accept and some reject. I seriously asking why? What makes those who accept do so and what makes those who reject do so.

An ancillary question would be, and can be discussed at a later time, is since we have free will can we reject even the call to the Gospel? Or does God in His Mercy and Grace force us to at least listen to His proposal in Prevenient Grace?

 

[BNR32FAN]

Works are inescapable. You are going to do works regardless. A person who believes they are saved by God's grace with no good works is essentially saying that they are saved by God's grace + evil works (Unless they are in a coma or strapped to a chair and not allowed to do any kind of thinking based on shock treatments). For most I have talked with in the Free Grace crowd will say that one cannot overcome sin in this life, which means they are sinning on some level and which means they are justifying sin an evil under God's grace and saying they can sin and still be saved.

This is proven even more true in the fact they fail the acid test question. Was King David saved while he committed his sins of adultery and murder? Most in the Free Grace crowd will either say: OT saints were not saved (to bury their head in the sand to the issue) or they will say that King David was still saved while he committed his sins of adultery and murder. But if this plan of salvation is true, wouldn't God have to agree with a person's thinking that they can sin and still be saved? Can God agree with sin? Is not God holy? This is where your theology crumbles and is exposed for the illogical silliness that it is. It ignores basic morality or the goodness of God. This is why the Free Grace belief cannot be made into a real world example or parable like other Biblical beliefs or truths illustrated by way of a parable.

You know what I believe brother Jason. I believe we receive grace according to what type of faith we have. I don’t believe that a “dead and useless or barren” faith is a saving faith. I believe faith that produces works is a saving faith. Works play no part in our receiving grace otherwise grace is no longer grace.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Good day, Jason

Umm.. you say No,... could you please address Paul in EPH 5 as it relates to Christ cleansing his Bride to ensure her being with out blemish.... I do not recall saying any thing about participation either positively or not.

Do you deny scripture on that point?

That would be a whole other topic (participation), and I think on that we would agree..

In Him,

Bill

I think verses 1-20 involve participation.

“Don’t be fooled by those who try to excuse these sins, for the anger of God will fall on all who disobey him.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭5:6‬

 

[BNR32FAN]

It's not Faith Alone if one also needs Works as a part of salvation. James even says faith without works is dead (James 2:17). James says that we are justified by works and not by faith alone (or faith only) (James 2:24).

It's because James says that he will show you his faith by his works (James 2:18). So it is not Faith Alone that saves. If it was, then James would say that faith without works can still be alive.

Works of Faith are a part of one's Faith and they also save.
Otherwise Jesus was not telling the truth when He said if you will enter into life, keep the commandments (Matthew 19:17); Also see Luke 10:25-28.

James also said in verse 14

“What doth it profit, my brethren, if a man say he hath faith, but have not works? can that faith save him?”
‭‭James‬ ‭2:14‬

Can that faith save him? Not the works. The type of faith that produces works is a saving faith. James never says works result in salvation. Now before you quote verse 21 I will go ahead and point out the Greek word translated to “justified” also means to be shown to be right with God. It doesn’t only mean to be made or rendered as righteous. That definition would directly contradict Paul in Romans 4:2. I know you say that Paul was talking about righteousness by works apart from faith but that still doesn’t change what Paul said. If grace is earned by works it is no longer grace. Whether with or without faith is irrelevant. Works are merely a result of faith not the author of it. And not a copilot. If works play a role in our receiving grace then payment is necessary for receiving grace and it no longer remains a free and unmerited favor favor of God. That’s the very definition of the word grace.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I see you equate the drawing of all men as the Gospel. That all will hear the Gospel and have an equal chance to either choose God or reject Him.

I think you boiled down Arminian Prevenient Grace quite well.

The only thing that still goes unanswered is why some reject the Gospel and some accept it.

If we are all at some point enlightened to have ears that hear and eyes to see it means mentally and spiritually we are all equally on the same footing. That the There is no advantage and God is not being partial (a respecter of persons).

Yet some accept and some reject. I seriously asking why? What makes those who accept do so and what makes those who reject do so.

An ancillary question would be, and can be discussed at a later time, is since we have free will can we reject even the call to the Gospel? Or does God in His Mercy and Grace force us to at least listen to His proposal in Prevenient Grace?

I believe there are times men can listen to the gospel message with their physical ears and not understand the gospel message because Satan can steal God's words out of their hearts before they have a chance to understand it (As we see with the first seed in the Parable of the Sower). But as I said before, I believe God will enlighten a particular point in time for a person to freely accept the gospel or reject the gospel (because the Scriptures say that Christ tasted death for every man).

As for the reason (or answer) why men reject the gospel even after God enlightens them with understanding the gospel?

It is obvious. It is sin. They prefer their sin over the gospel.

For all who do evil hate the light and neither come to the light, lest (unless) their deeds should be reproved.

He that does truth, comes to the light.

19 "And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God." (John 3:19-21).​

How can their deeds be reproved?

The Holy Spirit reproves the WORLD of it's sin because they believe not on Jesus Christ.

8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;..."
(John 16:8-9).​

This is not the elect but the WORLD that the Holy Spirit can reprove of their sin. This is so that they can believe in Jesus Christ and His teachings.

So when Christians tell me they can sin and still be saved, it is like they have not accepted the gospel of Jesus Christ yet. They are still preferring their sin over believing Jesus Christ's words in following Him. A person has to repent (seek forgiveness with the Lord) as a part of the gospel and bring forth fruits worthy of repentance (in order for their repentance to be true). But Christians make up this imaginary Jesus in their mind that makes for an allowance for following their own path and yet they can also follow Jesus, too. But it doesn't work like that. For he that loves his life shall lose it; And he that hates his life shall save it. For what does it profit for a man to gain the whole world and yet lose their own soul?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

You know what I believe brother Jason. I believe we receive grace according to what type of faith we have. I don’t believe that a “dead and useless or barren” faith is a saving faith. I believe faith that produces works is a saving faith. Works play no part in our receiving grace otherwise grace is no longer grace.

What you said is a contradiction.

You said,

#1. I believe we receive grace according to what type of faith we have. I don’t believe that a “dead and useless or barren” faith is a saving faith. I believe faith that produces works is a saving faith.

#2. Works play no part in our receiving grace otherwise grace is no longer grace.​

You said we receive grace according to the type of faith we have. Yet, you say works play no part in our receiving grace. You are contradicting yourself.

Also, when you quote Romans 11:6 that says, "And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace.": You have to realize that Paul is talking to Jews in verse 1.

"I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. " (Romans 11:6).

According to Jesus, the Pharisees (Jews) ignored the weightier matters of the Law like love, FAITH, justice, and mercy (See Matthew 23:23, and Luke 11:42).

In fact, the Jews were trying to deceive Christians into being circumcised in order to be saved. We see this heresy mentioned in Acts of the Apostles 15:1, Acts of the Apostles 15:5, and Acts of the Apostles 15:24. This heresy was also alluded to in Galatians 2:3, Galatians 2:3, Galatians 5:2, Galatians 5:6, Galatians 6:5, 1 Corinthians 7:18-19, Romans 2:28-29, Romans 3:1, Romans 4:9-12, Acts of the Apostles 21:21. So if someone is trying to say that they FIRST need to be circumcised to be saved, they are making salvation all about works. This would be "Works ALONE Salvationism" under the Old Law (that is the Old Contract) and this would not be the necessity of works (from the commands in the New Covenant) that follow God's grace (with Grace being the entrance and foundation of our faith). So in passages like Romans 11:6, Ephesians 2:8, and Titus 3:5, Paul is talking against Works ALONE Salvation that did not include God's grace as the entrance and as the foundation of our faith. Paul clearly taught the necessity of works as a part of salvation.

Paul says,
"They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate" (Titus 1:16).

"For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live" (Romans 8:13).

"If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness; He is proud, knowing nothing, "(1 Timothy 6:3-4)."

James says,
"...God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble." (James 4:6).

Paul says,
“...God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth” (2 Thessalonians 2:13).

"If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be Anathema [i.e. accursed]..." (1 Corinthians 16:22).

Jesus says,
"If ye love me, keep my commandments." (John 14:15).
“If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.” (John 15:10).

Paul says,
“For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.” (Romans 11:21-22).

 

[Gr8Grace]

The only thing that still goes unanswered is why some reject the Gospel and some accept it.

If we are all at some point enlightened to have ears that hear and eyes to see it means mentally and spiritually we are all equally on the same footing. That the There is no advantage and God is not being partial (a respecter of persons).

Yet some accept and some reject. I seriously asking why? What makes those who accept do so and what makes those who reject do so.

It is amazing that this is even asked.

The answer is FREEWILL, by creatures that God created in His own image that have personal volition.

The Gospel is equal privilege, equal opportunity to every creature that was created in God image John 3:16 (whosoever).......And just look around a bit, most creatures don't accept Him because they go after religion,good works,good lifestyle, a sprinkle of Jesus here and there. Doesn't sound like how the reformed ilk want to portray all humans as rejecting God with all they have.

The Gospel is rejected or accepted because he created His creatures in His image.........with personal volition.

 

[BNR32FAN]

What you said is a contradiction.

You said,

#1. I believe we receive grace according to what type of faith we have. I don’t believe that a “dead and useless or barren” faith is a saving faith. I believe faith that produces works is a saving faith.

#2. Works play no part in our receiving grace otherwise grace is no longer grace.​

You said we receive grace according to the type of faith we have. Yet, you say works play no part in our receiving grace. You are contradicting yourself.

Also, when you quote Romans 11:6 that says, "And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace.": You have to realize that Paul is talking to Jews in verse 1.

"I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. " (Romans 11:6).

According to Jesus, the Pharisees (Jews) ignored the weightier matters of the Law like love, FAITH, justice, and mercy (See Matthew 23:23, and Luke 11:42).

In fact, the Jews were trying to deceive Christians into being circumcised in order to be saved. We see this heresy mentioned in Acts of the Apostles 15:1, Acts of the Apostles 15:5, and Acts of the Apostles 15:24. This heresy was also alluded to in Galatians 2:3, Galatians 2:3, Galatians 5:2, Galatians 5:6, Galatians 6:5, 1 Corinthians 7:18-19, Romans 2:28-29, Romans 3:1, Romans 4:9-12, Acts of the Apostles 21:21. So if someone is trying to say that they FIRST need to be circumcised to be saved, they are making salvation all about works. This would be "Works ALONE Salvationism" under the Old Law (that is the Old Contract) and this would not be the necessity of works (from the commands in the New Covenant) that follow God's grace (with Grace being the entrance and foundation of our faith). So in passages like Romans 11:6, Ephesians 2:8, and Titus 3:5, Paul is talking against Works ALONE Salvation that did not include God's grace as the entrance and as the foundation of our faith. Paul clearly taught the necessity of works as a part of salvation.

Paul says,
"They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate" (Titus 1:16).

"For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live" (Romans 8:13).

"If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness; He is proud, knowing nothing, "(1 Timothy 6:3-4)."

James says,
"...God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble." (James 4:6).

Paul says,
“...God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth” (2 Thessalonians 2:13).

"If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be Anathema [i.e. accursed]..." (1 Corinthians 16:22).

Jesus says,
"If ye love me, keep my commandments." (John 14:15).
“If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.” (John 15:10).

Paul says,
“For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.” (Romans 11:21-22).

There’s no contradiction. When you look at your fuel gauge you can see there is fuel in the tank. But it’s not the fuel gauge that makes the engine run it’s the fuel in the tank that makes it run. So if I say the engine runs on fuel and the fuel gauge tells you if there’s fuel in the tank. Is it a contradiction to say the engine runs on the fuel, the fuel gauge plays no role in the engine’s performance?

 

[redleghunter]

I believe God will enlighten a particular point in time for a person to freely accept the gospel or reject the gospel (because the Scriptures say that Christ tasted death for every man).

That’s the part I’m asking about. I acknowledge your previous statements and understood what you were communicating.

What is not clear (at least to me as I’m asking) in Arminian Prevenient Grace is once this enlightened state happens when one can fully understand the Gospel, why do some exercising free will accept Christ and why do some reject Christ?

Put another way, the veil is lifted from every person’s eyes yet some reject Christ and some choose Him.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

There’s no contradiction. When you look at your fuel gauge you can see there is fuel in the tank. But it’s not the fuel gauge that makes the engine run it’s the fuel in the tank that makes it run. So if I say the engine runs on fuel and the fuel gauge tells you if there’s fuel in the tank. Is it a contradiction to say the engine runs on the fuel, the fuel gauge plays no role in the engine’s performance?

Sorry, that makes no sense. That is a incorrect parallel of the reality of faith + works = grace (salvation, or Jesus) as shown in the Bible. The works are the works of God in our life after we accept Jesus as our Savior.

Philippians 2:13 says,
"For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure."

Jesus says,
"I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing" (John 15:5).

Branches need to draw source from the life of the vine in order to grow and bear good fruit (good work).

Cars put off polution and destroy the environment, so nothing really good comes from cars in regards to the goodness of our planet (except for us getting from point A to point B really fast). Trees are a part of nature that God created. So the analogy that Jesus made is more accurate and correct.

Tree trunk and it's roots (vine) = Jesus (life, salvation, grace).
Branches = us.
Good Fruit = Good works of God done through us.
Jesus says we will know the type of tree that it is by it's fruit.
He says a bad tree cannot bring forth good fruit and a good tree cannot bring forth bad fruit.
So the kind of tree that Jesus is describing is one way or the other.
Jesus will not accept a tree that has good and bad fruit on it.
This is why those in Matthew 7 who said they did good works were told to depart by Jesus from His presence because they also worked iniquity (sin) (or bad fruit).

God will not accept good and bad fruit.
This is the same when it comes to men, as well.

For example:
If Rick put rat poison in a healthy vegetable drink full of vitamins, would Rick drink it if he valued his life? No.

Would Rick eat a bowl of rice krispies in milk if he found out his cat had pooped in it, thinking it was the litter box? More than likely... no.

 

[redleghunter]

It is amazing that this is even asked.

The answer is FREEWILL, by creatures that God created in His own image that have personal volition.

The Gospel is equal privilege, equal opportunity to every creature that was created in God image John 3:16 (whosoever).......And just look around a bit, most creatures don't accept Him because they go after religion,good works,good lifestyle, a sprinkle of Jesus here and there. Doesn't sound like how the reformed ilk want to portray all humans as rejecting God with all they have.

The Gospel is rejected or accepted because he created His creatures in His image.........with personal volition.

Well good and thank you! Perhaps you can answer this:

What is not clear (at least to me as I’m asking) in Arminian Prevenient Grace is once this enlightened state happens when one can fully understand the Gospel, why do some exercising free will accept Christ and why do some reject Christ?

Put another way, the veil is lifted from every person’s eyes yet some reject Christ and some choose Him.

Adding your comments, are all human free will volitions equal when Prevenient Grace appears or calls us?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

That’s the part I’m asking about. I acknowledge your previous statements and understood what you were communicating.

What is not clear (at least to me as I’m asking) in Arminian Prevenient Grace is once this enlightened state happens when one can fully understand the Gospel, why do some exercising free will accept Christ and why do some reject Christ?

Put another way, the veil is lifted from every person’s eyes yet some reject Christ and some choose Him.

As I had shown from Scripture, it is because of their sin that they reject the gospel. Part of the gospel is repenting of one's sins to Jesus. Repentance is seeking forgiveness with the Lord. This is followed by the natural fruits of repentance (like forsaking sin and living holy, and or doing good works). A person can even pretend to create their own gospel and act like they accepted Jesus but if they refuse to give up certain sins in their life or they justify sinning every once in a while with the excuse that says that nobody can overcome grievous sin in this life, they are not really truly coming to the Lord on His terms. So they keep lying or lusting on occasion or swearing, etc. They never truly live in fear of God. They think that one only needs a belief in Jesus, and you are good to go. But so many passages speak against that kind of thinking in the Bible; And and what is sad is that many do not even realize that it is wrong that they are still holding on to their sin and rejecting the gift of Jesus who calls us out of darkness. This is why narrow is the way that leads unto life and FEW be there that finds it and not many. Most will preach you can sin and still be saved today. The easy and smooth and wide gate path that everyone is on. But that is not the way. Jesus said we are to pick up our cross and deny ourselves and come follow Him. Jesus says that loving your father, or mother more than Jesus means that we are not worthy of Him (meaning we would not be saved). We have to follow the Lord in everything we do.

Jesus says he that does truth comes to the light.
Meaning, if we are truly setting out to do what is good and right, or if we are seeking to live right by God for real and not justify sin, God will reveal Himself to us by the true gospel for us to act upon if that is our choice.