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How do you decide if something is factual?

Discussion in 'Creation & Evolution' started by Kylie, Sep 15, 2017.

  1. pshun2404

    pshun2404 Newbie

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    Absolutely! I also learned that sequences that differ are not always "incomplete" just different in different creatures. For example, if we have an AT where there is no AT in the other creature's genome this does not necessitate a mutation OR an insertion or deletion event (the assumption of the "ancestor of the gaps" crowd) though that is certainly one way of interpreting this data and thus the opinion of those who hold to a particular preconceived conclusion.
     
  2. lesliedellow

    lesliedellow Member

    +2,535
    Calvinist
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    UK-Liberal-Democrats
    To quote one of them:

    "I have written this book mainly for people who believe, as I do, that the Bible is the inspired Word of God from cover to cover."

    The author of that remark is a neuro scientist at Cambridge, and certainly no YEC.
     
  3. pshun2404

    pshun2404 Newbie

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    I agree though nebek clearly means to burst forth or fountains and if so who could know of fountains OF the seas. As for not seeing the shower running the conclusion was we had no idea HOW or WHAT could cause this but the conclusion (all of us hearing it and the room full of steam) was deduced by the facts (which cannot be tested). There is no natural explanation. Something invisible to the human eye caused this to happen. Ghosts? Who knows, but not explainable by the laws of physics at that time.

    But let's not get away from the point which was your example was of something you know and your examples (experiment) was to show your daughter it was true not false.
     
  4. tas8831

    tas8831 Well-Known Member

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    Great!

    So maybe you can address this - I have asked you about 3 times now:


     
  5. pshun2404

    pshun2404 Newbie

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    So are you saying the premise you believed was that the speed of falling objects was based solely on their weight? And you were trying to prove this wrong? No...I do not believe that is what you believed (but I cannot test this) I believe you knew already that it was not true and you were demonstrating as true that which you already knew to be true.
     
  6. pshun2404

    pshun2404 Newbie

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    But it should not be accepted as a fact if you can't think of something that proves it wrong.

    Change the wording to "might prove it wrong" as "thinking of something" does not prove it wrong. And NO! Just because something cannot be disproven does not make it true.
     
  7. pshun2404

    pshun2404 Newbie

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    Actually I did consider the example you provided and I thought it equally possible that each organism has and repeats this gene as they individually require (as the different organism needs in order to be what it is)...in other words (which was my point) a similar gene across genomes in different creatures does not imply a lineal relationship just some degree of similarity (for reasons of form or function).

    TO ME the evidence in many cases that these alleged "shared Genes" are shown by testing to be different in size, order, and function make this alternate interpretation of the evidence equally feasible. And it is fine if you disagree...I am not dogmatic on the point, but have ceased being dogmatic on the point that this demonstrates lineal relationship.

    My apple is red and my pet canary is red (same shade), so in this area they are similar, but not related in a familial sense, nor does it indicate one came from the other, or from some earlier undemonstrable (hence imagined) source.
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2017
  8. Aman777

    Aman777 Christian

    +574
    Baptist
    You seem to be totally confused over the meaning of the word "refute". It means to prove another wrong. I'm still waiting on your refute but you seem to be running away. Is it because you cannot prove me wrong? Of course it is. God Bless you
     
  9. Loudmouth

    Loudmouth Contributor

    +5,953
    Agnostic
    Scientists can DEMONSTRATE that the evidence is consistent with the predictions made by the theory of evolution. Creationists can't come up with any predictions for creationism, much less show that the evidence is consistent with their claims. That's the difference.

    Science is testable theories, not opinions.

    Evolution does not have new species coming from nothing. I think you are trying to describe creationism.

    I don't see the connection. How does one start with parents, and end up with the conclusion that there is a deity?
     
  10. Aman777

    Aman777 Christian

    +574
    Baptist
    Then let us see Who made them?

    Gen 1:21 And God (Elohim-The Trinity) created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after Their kind,

    God blessed them AFTER He created them. Amen?
     
  11. Loudmouth

    Loudmouth Contributor

    +5,953
    Agnostic
    A nested hierarchy (i.e. phylogeny) of gene sequences does indicate relatedness through common ancestry since a nested hierarchy is what we should see if genomes are related through common ancestry. It isn't simply similarity that points to shared ancestry. It is the PATTERN of similarity that points to shared ancestry.
     
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  12. Aman777

    Aman777 Christian

    +574
    Baptist
    False, as you yourself have demonstrated. When confronted with the historic evidence for the SUDDEN arrival of Humans on this planet, you slink away, hoping that everyone will not see that you have been presented empirical (testable) evidence but failed to reply. I also have predictions for Creation which are happening as we speak. Want to see them?
     
  13. Loudmouth

    Loudmouth Contributor

    +5,953
    Agnostic
    You have never presented this evidence.
     
  14. Dirk1540

    Dirk1540 Well-Known Member Supporter

    +13,520
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    I'm with you on the possibilities of
    transversing space dimensionally, or suspending time, or quantum leap likeelectrons. This would go against my original theory, but now you got me wondering if maybe there could be a blurring of the lines of both theories! I wonder if it's possible if we might run into some type of argument of semantics...like perhaps a 'Spirit' entering and leaving that 2nd floor bathroom you talked about, imagine if that spirit accomplished the goal of getting to that shower knob using the same technique as an alien who traverses space dimensionally??

    Also speaking of blurred lines, could there be a point in technological knowledge/ability where the 'Supernatural' technically doesn't even violate laws of nature? What if God, although he can violate laws of nature, doesn't even need to do so because 'Miraculous' possibilities are already pre-packaged into the universe? Thoughts? If I'm even making sense lol.
     
  15. pshun2404

    pshun2404 Newbie

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    All you have to do is observe the geological column. If you go with what we can actually observe you can INTERPRET the data in either direction.
     
  16. pshun2404

    pshun2404 Newbie

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    Since God created there is nothing unnatural about anything He does or allows.
     
  17. Loudmouth

    Loudmouth Contributor

    +5,953
    Agnostic
    Then show how that interpretation is supported by evidence.
     
  18. FrumiousBandersnatch

    FrumiousBandersnatch Well-Known Member

    +6,576
    Atheist
    That may be true, but it's also true that it's not possible to be certain that an experience was of some externally real event; it's also possible (even fairly common) to be certain of having had an experience that never occurred, i.e. a false memory.

    So whether or not an individual can deny the factual reality of their experience is no guarantee that it was of some externally real event, or that the experience actually occurred at all. Undeniability is no guarantor of factual reality.
     
  19. The Brown Brink

    The Brown Brink Well-Known Member

    802
    +207
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    Married
    I think it's cool how the Bible tells about the Flood coming from God...
    Some say that God kept a reserve of water somewhere in the sky...

    And science has no real answer as to how all the water on our planet got here...just that it likely came from space...from the sky...

    Kinda cool...

    Science and the Bible agree.
     
  20. FrumiousBandersnatch

    FrumiousBandersnatch Well-Known Member

    +6,576
    Atheist
    Do you understand how scientists test their hypotheses? do you understand what the null hypothesis is for? what the p-value means?

    I ask because what you say about your 'studies' suggests otherwise.
     
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