How Do the Mainstreams of Christianity Look MJ As?

[yedida]

Context... and that is how I read it, in context..and came to the same conclusions as you.

 

[yonah_mishael]

Go back a couple verses. Peter was eating with the gentiles contrary to tradition. Then he was being hypocritical when the other Jews arrived, staying away from the gentiles. This was the controversy.

How many observant Jews do you know who would go to China, for instance, and eat in the homes of the Chinese? Are you not aware that “eating with Gentiles” entails a LOT of things that observant Jews simply don’t do. It’s like me, sitting right now in McDonald’s on Times Square and using my laptop during Shabbat. Is this something that an observant Jew would do? It would be considered the action of a Gentile, don’t you think? If Peter came to New York and sat with me in McDonald’s on Friday night typing on a laptop, what would he do if a more observant member of his community came and called him on it? If he pulled his fellowship from me and stopped coming to McDonald’s on Friday night, he would be drawing back to his old way of life. If he kept coming here to meet with me on Fridays, then he would lose credibility in the eyes of those of his original community.

This is the situation he found himself in – he had begun eating with Gentiles. This doesn’t mean that he was cooking and inviting them to a kosher meal. He simply wasn’t eating kosher meats. He was eating the foods that had been bought in the marketplace and possibly sacrificed to idols; he was living as a Gentile! And when James’ men came to Antioch and saw him behaving this way, they called him on it – and he stopped doing it. He went back to separating himself from non-kosher meat, to not being hosted by Gentiles. And Paul saw that this was outrageous! He that was living as a Gentile would not draw back and set standards that Gentiles needed to meet in order to be included in his fellowship!? How unthinkable! I don’t know what you guys (you, visionary and apparently yedida [who gave a thumbs up]) are reading, but it isn’t the text of Galatians, which is perfectly clear.

 

[yonah_mishael]

Because the original Hebrew gospels were lost or destroyed. Between the Romans, the anti-messianic Jews and later anti-Jewish christians, its a miracle the NT wasn't completely destroyed or changed beyond recognition.

What original Hebrew gospels? Is there a reason you trust the non-original Greek documents that you have received? Is there a reason that you think these these ones are good enough, even though they aren’t the originals or even written in the same language as the originals, if you’re right? Do you think this was really the best means that God, the Omnipotent, had for preserving the most important revelation in world history? Couldn’t he have come up with a better way of transmitting his truth from generation to generation than to have someone write inspiriting Holy Writ that would get translated into another language (possibly imperfectly), lost and then misunderstood in subsequent generations?

 

[Catherineanne]

Welcome to America!
Yes, the majority of mainstream christians think we're crazy (at the nicest) and heretics (at the worst). Nothing new (under the sun) so they say.

Erm, do we?

That is news to me.

Speaking for myself, and for what small part of Anglicanism I can be regarded as being a part of, I have no problem with Messianics, and I respect their beliefs very highly. If it were possible for me to live a Messianic life, I would. I know far too little about it, however, so instead of fake Messianic I settle for authentic Anglo Catholic. If I can't even remember to remember to say the Angelus regularly, I would be hopeless trying to add appropriate Sabbath observance, let alone anything else.

I think authentic Messianic Christianity is the closest form to that of the Lord himself, his mother and the apostles. I don't know any Anglican who would regard that, or the aspiration to live a similar life, as crazy.

 

[someguy14]

Hi Catherineanne. Im viewing that "mainstream" that yedida typed as "trendy" and possibly still a little worldly, at the least. Christ is pure and therefore, any "christian" is as Christ is, certainly isn't worldly. May God bless.

 

[Catherineanne]

How Do the Mainstreams of Christianity Look MJ As?

So I want to know can they represent the main streams of Christianity? How many People who call themselves “Christian” all over the world do think MJ is a heresy ?

MJ is not a heresy. Those who think it is are not using the word correctly. To qualify as heresy a teaching of MJ would have to deliberately contradict an established doctrine of the church.

Others may be better informed than I am but as far as I am aware there is nothing in MJ that contradicts anything in mainstream Christianity. Some evangelicals may think it is far too works oriented, but what do they know?

Works are the fruit which grow on the vine. The vine does not grow on the fruit and none of us is daft enough to think that it does.

 

[someguy14]

Welcome to America!
Yes, the majority of mainstream christians think we're crazy (at the nicest) and heretics (at the worst). Nothing new (under the sun) so they say.

Only those that serve the perishing world could think that worshipping God is "crazy" or "heretical". All in God are one.

 

[Catherineanne]

Hi Catherineanne. Im viewing that "mainstream" that yedida typed as "trendy" and possibly still a little worldly, at the least. Christ is pure and therefore, any "christian" is as Christ is, certainly isn't worldly. May God bless.

If you are right then I am not a Christian; there is far too much of the world still in me.

We don't get to be as pure as the Lord until we stand before him. Until then, it is all work in progress, I am afraid.

I ought to clarify that in case it contradicts MJ teaching. We can achieve ritual purity (I can do that through confession, for example), but we cannot achieve the same consistent purity as the Lord. Mine lasts a couple of hours at most, and then I am out of Eden once more; a thoughtless word, an uncharitable thought and it is gone.

 

[someguy14]

If you are right then I am not a Christian; there is far too much of the world still in me.

We don't get to be as pure as the Lord until we stand before him. Until then, it is all work in progress, I am afraid.

I ought to clarify that in case it contradicts MJ teaching. We can achieve ritual purity (I can do that through confession, for example), but we cannot achieve the same consistent purity as the Lord. Mine lasts a couple of hours at most, and then I am out of Eden once more; a thoughtless word, an uncharitable thought and it is gone.

We who?
If one denies oneself, there is no longer a we, but God that has joyfully fulfilled us entirely, fully. We have escaped the death of self and become one with the eternal life, God Himself. All goodness, all purity, all perfection is God alone. The wicked world perishes, God is eternal. May God bless.

Godly fear is a good thing. Humbleness before God, for He alone is worthy.
Perishing worldly fear is against God. For worldly fear has to do with torment. Perishing fear, those that serve the perishing, the wicked.
None is good enough, only God Himself.

 

[pat34lee]

How many observant Jews do you know who would go to China, for instance, and eat in the homes of the Chinese? Are you not aware that “eating with Gentiles” entails a LOT of things that observant Jews simply don’t do. It’s like me, sitting right now in McDonald’s on Times Square and using my laptop during Shabbat. Is this something that an observant Jew would do? It would be considered the action of a Gentile, don’t you think? If Peter came to New York and sat with me in McDonald’s on Friday night typing on a laptop, what would he do if a more observant member of his community came and called him on it? If he pulled his fellowship from me and stopped coming to McDonald’s on Friday night, he would be drawing back to his old way of life. If he kept coming here to meet with me on Fridays, then he would lose credibility in the eyes of those of his original community.

This is the situation he found himself in – he had begun eating with Gentiles. This doesn’t mean that he was cooking and inviting them to a kosher meal. He simply wasn’t eating kosher meats. He was eating the foods that had been bought in the marketplace and possibly sacrificed to idols; he was living as a Gentile! And when James’ men came to Antioch and saw him behaving this way, they called him on it – and he stopped doing it. He went back to separating himself from non-kosher meat, to not being hosted by Gentiles. And Paul saw that this was outrageous! He that was living as a Gentile would not draw back and set standards that Gentiles needed to meet in order to be included in his fellowship!? How unthinkable! I don’t know what you guys (you, visionary and apparently yedida [who gave a thumbs up]) are reading, but it isn’t the text of Galatians, which is perfectly clear.

There is a difference between then and now. The rabbis have had almost 2000 years to warp Judaism into an anti-christian cocoon wrapped around the Jewish people. You did not mention buying something to eat. Sitting in McDonald's and using your laptop is not breaking Shabbat unless you are doing business on it. Or, unless you buy into tradition.

Set Peter and Paul into today. The gentiles they were with were not just any gentiles off the street, but those who were followers of Yeshua and the Torah, namely messianics of today. If messianics can eat clean today, and some even keep fully kosher, why couldn't those that Peter ate with? The problem wasn't with the food, but the company he kept which broke the tradition of not eating with non-Jews.

 

[Catherineanne]

Couldn’t he have come up with a better way of transmitting his truth from generation to generation than to have someone write inspiriting Holy Writ that would get translated into another language (possibly imperfectly), lost and then misunderstood in subsequent generations?

Are you questioning what God has chosen to do, and why he has chosen it?

Why would he choose Abraham to be the father of many nations? Why would he bring the Israelites out of Egypt? Why would he choose one race over another to be the chosen people?

Answer to all of the above; because he is the Lord, and he can do whatever he chooses to do. He does not answer to you or to me.

But he stands alone and who can dissuade him? What he desires, that he does.

Job 23.13

 

[someguy14]

I ought to clarify that in case it contradicts MJ teaching. We can achieve ritual purity (I can do that through confession, for example),

Confession, . The flesh is against God, it desires to please itself. Confession could last from beginning of fleshly life until end, without a break. God is greater and understands all. God is the only good. God is goodness itself. It is only God inside oneself that one is able to understand goodness. Without God(goodness), none exist, that includes Angels and demons, mankind itself, male/female. All glory belongs unto God alone. God is glory. It is all about God. He alone is perfect.

 

[Catherineanne]

Anyway, back to the question. I on occasion hear a Messianic station on the radio.
The impression I have gotten is that mainstream Christian churches don't care-until
Messianics start preaching that unless one follows Torah, one can't truly be "saved".
And that they need to follow the Torah, and they "evangelized" (if that's the proper word ) them.
Yes, I have heard Messianic teachers say that. I'm sure it's not mainstream Messianic thought, though.
Every group has it's radicals, LOL.

Ah yes, that would fall outside mainstream thought, yes. But in the context of MJ I can understand it; it is the same as Romans getting carried away and thinking that regular confession is essential to salvation. For a devout Roman it is; they honestly could not live easily without it, but for everyone else it really isn't. Therefore it is both necessary to salvation and not necessary to salvation, both at the same time.

Thanks, Chavak.

 

[Catherineanne]

Confession friend, . The flesh is against God, it desires to please itself. Confession could last from beginning of fleshly life until end, without a break. God is greater and understands all. God is the only good. God is goodness itself. It is only God inside oneself that one is able to understand goodness. Without God(goodness), none exist, that includes Angels and demons, mankind itself, male/female. All glory belongs unto God alone. God is glory. It is all about God. He alone is perfect.

With apologies to my MJ friends for a short derail. Normal service will be resumed as soon as possible:

Thank you so much someguy, but I am afraid the role of spiritual director to yours truly is already filled by my priest and confessor. Thanks everso for the most kind offer.

End of derail.

 

[pat34lee]

What original Hebrew gospels? Is there a reason you trust the non-original Greek documents that you have received? Is there a reason that you think these these ones are good enough, even though they aren’t the originals or even written in the same language as the originals, if you’re right? Do you think this was really the best means that God, the Omnipotent, had for preserving the most important revelation in world history? Couldn’t he have come up with a better way of transmitting his truth from generation to generation than to have someone write inspiriting Holy Writ that would get translated into another language (possibly imperfectly), lost and then misunderstood in subsequent generations?

It is the same method that the Torah was transmitted down to us. I think the originals were removed for the same reason that the temple and ark were removed; to keep us from focusing on what is not important. What would they do with the original ark or scripture that they cannot do with copies and descriptions? Some would hold them as sacred relics while others would want to study the materials, workmanship, authenticity, etc. (e.g. shroud of Turin). Does it matter who wrote Matthew as long as it was written when the people who witnessed the events were still alive to dispute or affirm them?

 

[someguy14]

All of Gods own receive truth joyfully.

 

[Catherineanne]

Happy Sukkot dear fiends!
And now I have a Christian church to visit on Sunday, I don’t know how long I can stay there. The leader of it likes Romanism.

If you mean you attend a Roman Catholic church, you should be ok, but you will not be able to partake of the Mass unless you are Roman yourself. There is nothing personal about that; neither would I.

Romans are generally (I hope) tolerant of people who want to honour God by how they live, and do not regard that as trying to work our way to heaven, because they understand that this cannot be done. I do not see any reason why they would have a problem with you, as long as you don't have a problem with them.

If your church is Episcopalian (Anglican) then you could partake of the Eucharist, if you wanted to. The invitation is to all baptised Christians who are in good standing with their own church. I am no expert, but imo that would include Messianics.

 

[Catherineanne]

All of Gods own receive truth joyfully.

Which person on earth is not God's own, someguy?

 

[Avodat]

If you mean you attend a Roman Catholic church, you should be ok, but you will not be able to partake of the Mass unless you are Roman yourself. There is nothing personal about that; neither would I.

Romans are generally (I hope) tolerant of people who want to honour God by how they live, and do not regard that as trying to work our way to heaven, because they understand that this cannot be done. I do not see any reason why they would have a problem with you, as long as you don't have a problem with them.

If your church is Episcopalian (Anglican) then you could partake of the Eucharist, if you wanted to. The invitation is to all baptised Christians who are in good standing with their own church. I am no expert, but imo that would include Messianics.

I am a Messianic minister, though not Anglican, and I am received to take communion in Anglican churches, but not in Catholic churches (whether or not Messianic).

 

[someguy14]

Which person on earth is not God's own, someguy?

All that serve wickedness fight against God constantly. We learn of this in the Gospels.

"destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness:..." 1 timothy 6:5

God is greater.