How Do the Mainstreams of Christianity Look MJ As?

[Yusuphhai]

How Do the Mainstreams of Christianity Look MJ As?

I met the cases somewhere in China where MJ was thought as a Heresy at least 5 times. Even the names of Rock Jean(a Taiwanese M) and me(Yosef Hai) were published(in Chinese) on web to criticize MJ. Maybe the writer a leader of church thinks me as a represent of MJ Beijing even China.

So I want to know can they represent the main streams of Christianity? How many People who call themselves “Christian” all over the world do think MJ is a heresy ? the concrete details, what is the about centigrade?
Really some Christianity styles in China(especially the teachers) want to destroy MJ theory、practice and groups in spirit, I don’t know whether their teachings are from their western theological background, or their own local theological background, or both(Their English level is better than mine). I think the teachers love their authority most, so they think their judgments are always right and can not be queried. I don’t want to respond to them and their followers.

A follower of the teachers dare set the inquisition by their authority system in the biggest Chinese Judaism forum and more forums.

I appreciate your care here.

 

[yedida]

Welcome to America!
Yes, the majority of mainstream christians think we're crazy (at the nicest) and heretics (at the worst). Nothing new (under the sun) so they say.

That's one of the main reasons I don't consider myself christian. I want no part of their disobedience and craziness. We share Yeshua and that's about as far as it goes. Messianic Judaism is a Judaism, just as the original Way was just another sect of Judaism in Yeshua's day. Yeshua never ever began a new religion nor a new way to live - He just wanted to revive the old way, the way God had originally instructed via the Torah.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

How Do the Mainstreams of Christianity Look MJ As?

I met the cases somewhere in China where MJ was thought as a Heresy at least 5 times. Even the names of Rock Jean(a Taiwanese M) and me(Yosef Hai) were published(in Chinese) on web to criticize MJ. Maybe the writer a leader of church thinks me as a represent of MJ Beijing even China.

So I want to know can they represent the main streams of Christianity? How many People who call themselves “Christian” all over the world do think MJ is a heresy ? the concrete details, what is the about centigrade?

Really some Christianity styles in China(especially the teachers) want to destroy MJ theory、practice and groups in spirit, I don’t know whether their teachings are from their western theological background, or their own local theological background, or both(Their English level is better than mine). I think the teachers love their authority most, so they think their judgments are always right and can not be queried. I don’t want to respond to them and their followers.

A follower of the teachers dare set the inquisition by their authority system in the biggest Chinese Judaism forum and more forums.

I appreciate your care here.

Shalom

On your question, when wondering on whether Christians think Messianic Judaism is "heresy", I'd say it'd really depend on where you look. In numerous places, Messianic Judaism is considered to be more than acceptable and is often promoted in the mainstream. One can no further than TBN (Trinity Broadcast Network) (which owns land in Jerusalem for their broadcasts and help in making the plight of Messianic Jews known) or GODTv and see many broadcasts from Messianic Jewish believers, be it Dr.Michael Brown of RealMessiah often noting the reality of Jewish Christianity and being one who was especially shown on TBN for a Brownsville Revival tribute that Steve Hill hosted a few years back) or Rabbi Jonathan Bernis of Jewish Voice (who often has Messianic Jewish teachers of many times on his show ) or Asher Intrater Sid Roth of "It's Supernatural" or Rabbi Kirt Schneider of Discovering the Jewish Jesus and many others. Having Messianic Judaism broadcast on Christian TV was one of the main reasons why many became remotely aware of it and the plight of Messianic Jews----including the subject of Ethiopian Jews or Russian Jews returning to Israel and the need for fundraising on their behalf.

People like Keith Green and Paul Wilbur (both involved with the early beginnings of Messianic Judaism as well as the Jesus People Movement) in their music which is used in Messianic fellowships and Christian churches have often discussed the reality of Messianic Judaism and been bridge-builders in the church.

It was already the case in 2011 where they were havign an intercessory prayer conference and one Christian leader was on GOD TV with other Messianic Jewish leaders touring Jerusalem and celebrating the 60th anniversy of Israel as a nation.

Jason on GOD TV was in Tour in Jerusalem Celebrating 60th Anniversary of Israel as a Nation.webm.

I can go to LifeWay Christian Bookstore (which is BAPTIST owned) and find dozens of books recommended in many sections of the store and they often speak of their support of it. Actually bought many books, including "Jewish New Testament Commentary" by David H.Stern (who also has his "Jewish New Testament Bible" sold there as well) from Lifeway Christian Book store. The stereotype of Christians thinking Messianic Judaism as "heresy" is just that---a steteotype...and there's plenty of reasons as to why many, especially Christians, have noted the issue of where Messianic Judaism is more than acceptable seeing how one can have Judaism without Christianity but cannot have Christianity without Judaism. For Christianity has always been an expression of Judaism itself as the early Jewish Christians and Gentile Chrsitians noted multiple times when claiming the name of Christ/calling themselves Christians and yet having distinction. Messianic Judaism has always been a branch of Christianity ( just as Christianity itself is a branch of Judaism since to be a Christian was considered to be apart of a sect within Judaism in the days of Christ, 1 Peter 4:15-17, Acts 26:27-29 /Acts 26 , Acts 11:25-27...specifically the sect known as the Way, Acts 22:3-5 , Acts 24:13-15, Acts 24:4-6....more here, here and here/here /here/here/here/here and more at Is Christianity Anti-Jewish? - Hebrew for Christians /Israel and the Church -What is the Relationship? ).

Sadly, however, what has happend in certain parts of Christianity is that there are stereotypes of what Judaism is about and parts of the church accept those stereotypes (i.e. "All people loving the Torah are trying to be justified by LAW!!!", "You only need grace!!!!", "The Festivals were for OT Only!!!!", etc) because of much in the way of teachings such as Replacement Theology and assuming all things Jewish must be erased or minimized in order to glorify the Lord. It is from those sections where there's often a lot of fuss about others promoting "Judaizing" as they see it just because others enjoy Jewish culture---and because they don't know how to do categorization and know that demanding all follow all aspects of OT Law (as some Messianics/Hebrew Roots groups do sadly) isn't the same as saying many applications of the OT are still present in the early Jewish church, they err....and often cause A LOT OF Damage. In many ways, it's a bit of a civil war within Christianity just as it is a civil war within Messianic Judaism whenever it comes to people in the movement seeking to denounce Christians/act as if all things connected to Christianity are automatically disconnected from Messianic Judaism or trying to distance themselves from all things deemed "church"---fueling the reasons why people against Messianic Judaism speak against it.

If others consider Messianic Judaism as a whole to be herectical or off, that's their choice. Thankfully, it has never been the case that it is universally seen to be that way in Christianity and you're in good company.

 

[ChavaK]

"Whether we like it or not?"
I'm sure I'll get reported, but I can't over look this.
Gentiles telling us what Judaism is? People who know/knew nothing
about Torah and Judaism until recently telling those of us who have lived
and breathed if for thousands of year what's what? Hah.

Anyway, back to the question. I on occasion hear a Messianic station on the radio.
The impression I have gotten is that mainstream Christian churches don't care-until
Messianics start preaching that unless one follows Torah, one can't truly be "saved".
And that they need to follow the Torah, and they "evangelized" (if that's the proper word ) them.
Yes, I have heard Messianic teachers say that. I'm sure it's not mainstream Messianic thought, though.
Every group has it's radicals, LOL.

 

[yedida]

"Whether we like it or not?"
I'm sure I'll get reported, but I can't over look this.
Gentiles Jews telling us what Judaism is? People who know/knew nothing
about Torah and Judaism until recently telling those of us who have lived
and breathed if for thousands of year what's what? Hah.

Anyway, back to the question. I on occasion hear a Messianic station on the radio.
The impression I have gotten is that mainstream Christian churches don't care-until
Messianics start preaching that unless one follows Torah, one can't truly be "saved".
And that they need to follow the Torah, and they "evangelized" (if that's the proper word ) them.
Yes, I have heard Messianic teachers say that. I'm sure it's not mainstream Messianic thought, though.
Every group has it's radicals, LOL.

No, I said it's "a" Judaism. Big difference between Judaism (rabbinic), Judaism (kaarite), and "a" Judaism. It's in our book of Acts and it's in our SoP.
On second thought, that wasn't very nice. I"ll remove it and beg your pardon.

 

[ChavaK]

No, I said it's "a" Judaism. Big difference between Judaism (rabbinic), Judaism (kaarite), and "a" Judaism. It's in our book of Acts and it's in our SoP.

My point stands-gentiles telling Jews what Judaism is? No matter what the form? Makes as much sense as me telling Christians that Mormons are "a Christianity". It just seems a bit insensitive to add the "no matter what they think".

 

[yedida]

My point stands-gentiles telling Jews what Judaism is? No matter what the form? Makes as much sense as me telling Christians that Mormons are "a
Christianity". It just seems a bit insensitive to add the "no matter what they think".

It was. And I'm sorry I did it.

 

[ChavaK]

It was. And I'm sorry I did it.

Gracias!

 

[Gxg (G²)]

I on occasion hear a Messianic station on the radio. The impression I have gotten is that mainstream Christian churches don't care-until Messianics start preaching that unless one follows Torah, one can't truly be "saved". And that they need to follow the Torah, and they "evangelized" (if that's the proper word ) them. Yes, I have heard Messianic teachers say that. I'm sure it's not mainstream Messianic thought, though.

Every group has it's radicals, LOL.

What you note is actually Mainstream Messianic thought, as many Messianic teachers often called it out whenever Gentiles assert to all Christians that one can't be saved unless they live out all parts of the OT Mosaic Code/Torah (as none of the Gentiles saying such have ever come close nor were they ever required to...with Christianity well-noting salvation being in Christ and specific applications given). Many of the people advocating absolute obediance to the OT on all parts or saying Gentiles are "lesser believers" for not living out Jewish culture are actually considered to be in the fringe category and speaking in the name of Messianic Judaism even though they distance themselves from it in the process. Where Messianic Judaism is focused on primarily is with evangelism amongst those in the Jewish world for the sake of Messiah

 

[pat34lee]

"Whether we like it or not?"
I'm sure I'll get reported, but I can't over look this.
Gentiles telling us what Judaism is? People who know/knew nothing
about Torah and Judaism until recently telling those of us who have lived
and breathed if for thousands of year what's what? Hah.

Sorry, but the type of Judaism you practice today is newer by centuries than Christianity. And nobody has lived anything for thousands of years, unless you are a lot older than I thought. Every generation and each person stands on their own knowledge. You know only what you have learned for yourself, not what every Jew over thousands of years has known. I heard a similar statement from a rabbi during a debate on Yeshua. Just being Jewish does not make one an expert on Judaism.

 

[visionary]

For the most part, we are the "new" kids on the block.

 

[GuardianShua]

"Whether we like it or not?"
I'm sure I'll get reported, but I can't over look this.
Gentiles telling us what Judaism is? People who know/knew nothing
about Torah and Judaism until recently telling those of us who have lived
and breathed if for thousands of year what's what? Hah.

Anyway, back to the question. I on occasion hear a Messianic station on the radio.
The impression I have gotten is that mainstream Christian churches don't care-until
Messianics start preaching that unless one follows Torah, one can't truly be "saved".
And that they need to follow the Torah, and they "evangelized" (if that's the proper word ) them.
Yes, I have heard Messianic teachers say that. I'm sure it's not mainstream Messianic thought, though.
Every group has it's radicals, LOL.

MJ and Christians believe in the fulfillment of prophecy.
Jeremiah 31:32
It will not be like the covenant I made with their ancestors when I took them by the hand to lead them out of Egypt, because they broke my covenant, though I was a husband to them, ” declares the LORD.

There are the commandments of God, and there are the Mosaic laws that govern the priesthood and festivals.

 

[jehoiakim]

Haing been in and out of and still in protestant churches it seems to me most regular uneducated Christians think Messianic just means you are a jew who became a Christian and you keep a few traditions, they think that is really cool, but they think of most messianics basically 'Jews for Jesus." More educated christians, pastors and elders are often not as positive assuming Messianic Jews are part of a cult or legalistic judaizers, but often like the regular church goer many are fairly oblivious to what messianic actually believe or how they practice. Those who cling more tightly to Calvinist and reform traditions are far more likely to think of messianic as heretics.

my wife and I are "theologically messianic" we celebrate loosely feast days, we are kosher and partially celebrate Shabbat, we are moving closer in the messianic direction, but we are slow as we are both gentiles and are trying to find out how exactly as a gentile we are grafted it, participating in the culture and promises of Israel but still remaining distinct. We have a few messianic leaning christians we celebrate and study with semi regularly, but we are also plugged into a protestant church.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Welcome to America!
Yes, the majority of mainstream christians think we're crazy (at the nicest) and heretics (at the worst). Nothing new (under the sun) so they say.

That's one of the main reasons I don't consider myself christian. I want no part of their disobedience and craziness. We share Yeshua and that's about as far as it goes. Messianic Judaism is a Judaism, just as the original Way was just another sect of Judaism in Yeshua's day. Yeshua never ever began a new religion nor a new way to live - He just wanted to revive the old way, the way God had originally instructed via the Torah.

I was under the impression that MJs were Christian?
But I suppose that depends on one's definition of same

NASB) 1 Peter 4:16 but if anyone suffers as a Christian, he is not to be ashamed, but is to glorify God in this name.

As Gandhi exclaimed:

“I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians
They are so unlike your Christ.” Gandhi

 

[yedida]

I was under the impression that MJs were Christian?
Many do and many don't.

But I suppose that depends on one's definition of same
yep

NASB) 1 Peter 4:16 but if anyone suffers as a Christian, he is not to be ashamed, but is to glorify God in this name.
That's just a translation.

As Gandhi exclaimed:

“I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians
They are so unlike your Christ.” Gandhi

You quoted it, not me.....

 

[someguy14]

All believers in God are one, and only those that truely, wholeheartedly believe in God, understand.

 

[yedida]

All believers in God are one, and only those that truely, wholeheartedly believe in God, understand.

Come again???

 

[someguy14]

God is one, God is perfect. All of Gods own are one in God alone. In God alone, yedida, is peace.

 

[someguy14]

God has already overcome every wickedness.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

NASB) 1 Peter 4:16 but if anyone suffers as a Christian, he is not to be ashamed, but is to glorify God in this name.

As Gandhi exclaimed:

“I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians
They are so unlike your Christ.” Gandhi

Love that quote by Gandhi as it's so true. Same dynamic applies to others within the Messianic Jewish world who claim the Messiah but don't act like He did.

Scripture's excellent, as it's truly accurate as to what ALL Believers in the Lord are called to be if claiming the name of Christ whether they realize it or not. When you follow the Messiah, you're a Christ-Bearer (Christian). Regardless of what has been done in that name which may not reflect it (which is the basis behind many having issue with Christianity in any form), that doesn't change the fact that any/all believers claiming Christ will be Christians at all times when choosing to live like him....and there's no shame in that as the apostle Peter noted alongside many other Jewish believers in the early church who had no issue saying that they were Christians or a part of the camp of Judaism that advocated trust in Christ the SAVior (giving room for people to deem what they did as Christianity).