How do Protestants Settle on a Denomination? (No Debating Catholics/Orthodox)

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Ah.... ABBA YHVH, YAHSHUA MESSIAH, TORAH. (another 'trio') "TRUTH:" as revealed by ABBA from heaven to little children.
ABBA YHVH : perfect.
YAHSHUA MESSIAH: perfect.
TORAH: perfect.

 

[Root of Jesse]

I would look at there statement of doctrine, does it match what the Word of God says.
I imagine this would be close to what Catholics do.
Prominent movements (incomplete list):

• Catholic Charismatic Renewal - 160 million[4]
• Blue Army of Our Lady of Fátima - 20 million
• Legion of Mary (active and auxiliary) - 10 million
• International Catholic Conference of Scouting - 8 million
• Cursillo - 5 million
• Worldwide Marriage Encounter - 5 million
• Marian Movement of Priests - 5 million
• Militia Immaculatae - 3 million
• International Alliance of Catholic Knights - several million
  • Knights of Columbus - 1.9 million
• Schoenstatt Apostolic Movement - several million
• Neocatechumenal Way - 1 million
• Society of Saint Vincent de Paul - 0.8 million
• Secular Franciscan Order - 0.4 million
• Focolare Movement - 0.14 million
• Opus Dei - 0.095 million
• Community of Sant'Egidio - 0.05 million
• Regnum Christi - 0.02 million
• Our Lady's Rosary Makers - 0.017 million
• Personal Ordinariate for former Anglicans - 0.012 million
• Emmanuel Community - 0.007 million

Note that these are all Catholic groups in union with the Pope...

 

[Root of Jesse]

I totally understand, I try to phrase things well, but I often fall short. Many people do float around looking for a pastor they like and can identify with. I tend to float around more based on theology and my studies of history and scripture.

I also understand that most Catholic Churches have the same Mass, I attended a Catholic Church for around 11 years. However, even though the mass is the same, the homily, music, and actual style of the Mass can vary greatly from parish to parish.

But the worship is the same. Regarding homilies, even two people hearing the same gospel and the same homily will come away with a different meaning from it. That's just a human thing. I know you said you're divorced, and maybe that's why you lapsed, but if you'd like to talk about why you left (or why I came in 12 years ago) PM me.

 

[Root of Jesse]

My experience is that there is no reputed group on this earth in which all members and leaders are obeying how God rules His "one body" in His own peace > Colossians 3:15. Also, to my knowledge, I do not know of any group in which all members and leaders relate the way our Apostle Paul says to relate in God's love > Ephesians 4:1-3, Ephesians 4:31-32. So, there is no outward-reputation group to choose.

But there are people who obey God's standard for selecting and trusting who is qualified to "take care of the church of God" > please see our Apostle Paul's directive of 1 Timothy 3:1-10, with our Apostle Peter's directive for how "elders" are to "feed the flock of God" and relate as leaders > 1 Peter 5:1-3. I would say I have personally gotten to know a number of men who meet these qualifications and relate like this as "examples to the flock."

And it is clear to me that a number of groups do not obey this Biblical basic. But within certain Bible claiming groups there can be pastors who are qualified according to such Biblical standards. And Jesus makes us able to tell the difference > John 10:1-30. So, I have no excuse if a predator or con artist or immature man can fool me into thinking he is a real pastor; because Jesus's "sheep", even, not only leaders, are able to smell the difference between a wolf and a good shepherd.

To the bolded, I believe that that's a problem of the people, not the particular Church. We all worship and serve God imperfectly. The question is, how do we choose the denomination (or the Catholic Church, which is not a denomination). I chose the Catholic Church because of the historicity, and belief that the Eucharist is really the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity. I found it difficult to pull myself away from the tabernacle after that realization.

 

[tampasteve]

But the worship is the same.

Not really though. I mean, the ruberics are more or less the same, but the worship can vary greatly. Anything from a Nuvos Ordo Mass with some Latin, chant, incense, and high respect to a Nuvos Ordo Mass with no Latin, "contemporary" drums and guitar music, spoken prayers, "dance", and much less outward respect - or anything in between. And that does not include the option of a Tridentine Mass either.

I know you said you're divorced, and maybe that's why you lapsed, but if you'd like to talk about why you left (or why I came in 12 years ago) PM me.

The divorce is part of the reason for sure, but the fact that I am divorced is not the only reason for lapsing. I appreciate the offer, but I am in a good place now, the divorce was around 5 years ago.

 

[Root of Jesse]

Not really though. I mean, the ruberics are more or less the same, but the worship can vary greatly. Anything from a Nuvos Ordo Mass with some Latin, chant, incense, and high respect to a Nuvos Ordo Mass with no Latin, "contemporary" drums and guitar music, spoken prayers, "dance", and much less outward respect - or anything in between. And that does not include the option of a Tridentine Mass either.

That's all peripheral, though, and most parishes have choices. I would avoid guitar and dance, and favor organ and singing prayers, but I can go internal at any Mass. I don't pay much attention to all the innovations.

The divorce is part of the reason for sure, but the fact that I am divorced is not the only reason for lapsing. I appreciate the offer, but I am in a good place now, the divorce was around 5 years ago.

ok. Just wondering because divorce isn't against Church law.

 

[tampasteve]

That's all peripheral, though, and most parishes have choices. I would avoid guitar and dance, and favor organ and singing prayers,

True, just as many Lutheran, Methodist and other high churches have options for "contemporary" or "traditional" worship services at a particular church. I am just pointing out that the differences (style wise, I understand the theologies are quite different) are not as wide as many Catholics like to think they are, at least in regards to high church worship.

but I can go internal at any Mass. I don't pay much attention to all the innovations.

Sure, that is always an option in more liturgical churches, not really an option in non-liturgical.

Just wondering because divorce isn't against Church law.

Sure, and in my case an annulment would be fairly strait forward as it was due to infidelity on her part.

 

[joshua 1 9]

how do you settle on one denomination or church?

I do not settle on any one church or denomination. I am comfortable to go to any church including the catholic church. I keep up and study what they all teach and believe. Of course I prefer churches where the pastor or priest has at least a master's degree if not a Phd. Although there are lots of people with a 2 year associate degree that can preach a very good sermon and there are people with a PhD that can not preach a sermon at all. So you can not really establish education as a litmus test. Only if you need counseling a more advanced degree is going to be better qualifed.

This reminds me of a nurse I was talking to once. She was looking for a boyfriend and I asked her what she most wanted in a man. Her answer was vital signs. If I were looking for a church I would look for vital signs. I would look to see if they were alive or dead. Rev 3:1 "I know your deeds; you have a reputation of being alive, but you are dead." Perhaps this is what God is looking for also. A church that is alive and not dead. "2 Wake up and strengthen what remains, which was about to die; for I have found your deeds incomplete in the sight of My God."

 

[com7fy8]

We all worship and serve God imperfectly. The question is, how do we choose the denomination (or the Catholic Church, which is not a denomination). I chose the Catholic Church because of the historicity, and belief that the Eucharist is really the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity. I found it difficult to pull myself away from the tabernacle after that realization.

You have made yourself clear.

And it is imperfect people making the claims you make. God is the One who knows who is really doing what He has His people doing, or not.

Our Apostle Paul has clearly said who qualifies to "take care of the church of God" > 1 Timothy 3:1-10. If a group Protestant does not obey this, this is right in the Bible. So, if people do not obey this apostolic directive, I am not going to assume I can trust them to be honest with me.

So, this is my answer about how I evaluate a Protestant group. And I understand that Catholicism is off-topic for this thread. But I will say, if a Protestant group does not obey 1 Timothy 3:1-10, I am not going to assume I can trust their claims about their communion. So, in case a Protestant person is not obeying God's standard for who qualifies to "take care of the church of God", but is making up ways to get out of this, I know God can do better with His people and His real communion, than what disobedient people are doing.

Disobeying 1 Timothy 3:1-10 is not what qualified leadership does. God's obedient leaders obey 1 Timothy 3:1-10.

So, I do not have to choose who I am going to trust, from people who are not obeying how the Bible says men need to be qualified to "take care of the church of God" > 1 Timothy 3:1-10. So, in case a person claims to be Protestant, but does not obey God's standards which our Apostle Paul has given us for preparing and selecting pastors, I am not going to assume that person has correct claims about historicity and how that person does communion.

 

[Marvin Knox]

I would look at there statement of doctrine, does it match what the Word of God says.
I imagine this would be close to what Catholics do.
Prominent movements (incomplete list):

• Catholic Charismatic Renewal - 160 million[4]
• Blue Army of Our Lady of Fátima - 20 million
• Legion of Mary (active and auxiliary) - 10 million
• International Catholic Conference of Scouting - 8 million
• Cursillo - 5 million
• Worldwide Marriage Encounter - 5 million
• Marian Movement of Priests - 5 million
• Militia Immaculatae - 3 million
• International Alliance of Catholic Knights - several million
  • Knights of Columbus - 1.9 million
• Schoenstatt Apostolic Movement - several million
• Neocatechumenal Way - 1 million
• Society of Saint Vincent de Paul - 0.8 million
• Secular Franciscan Order - 0.4 million
• Focolare Movement - 0.14 million
• Opus Dei - 0.095 million
• Community of Sant'Egidio - 0.05 million
• Regnum Christi - 0.02 million
• Our Lady's Rosary Makers - 0.017 million
• Personal Ordinariate for former Anglicans - 0.012 million
• Emmanuel Community - 0.007 million

Exactly so.

Roman Catholics are the same as Protestants in that they gravitate toward groups which support their own intramural preferences. Perhaps it shouldn't be that way but it is and has been since the time of the Paul vs. Apollos factions.

On the "Roman" side of things there are preferences ranging from strict (almost cult like IMO) denominations like that of Mel Gibson and his family and those in far off monasteries to the liberal Catholic church down the street which doesn't really have much they would treat as sacred and necessary dogma.

Protestants like to go directly to the scriptures and be guided as they feel the Holy Spirit is teaching them. Naturally there would be a bit more diversity (even cults) in Protestantism. The Romans on the other hand usually try to link their beliefs to scripture interpretations approved by traditions within Romanism. There is less diversity of thought that way - but it is no guarantee against the advent of cults within Romanism.

The Lord will critique the mistakes we make in life along these lines - just as He will sort out who has and who has not truly trusted Christ alone for their salvation.

Some will be merely embarrassed when they suffer His critique and some will wail and gnash their teeth as they are assigned a place with the devil and His angels.

Some within Protestantism teach that the Roman group in general have adopted beliefs which require that they must suffer more than just embarrassment at their final judgment. Some within Romanism believe that the Protestant groups in general have adopted beliefs which require that they must suffer more than just embarrassment at their final judgment.

I for one am content to just critique the beliefs of other Christians as I am told to do and leave the final judgment as to their salvation to the Lord.

I do have my suspicions however about the final fate of some people within Protestantism and some within Catholicism even if I'm not dogmatic about them. I will leave my critique at strong warnings for now.

Time will tell.

 

[Root of Jesse]

You have made yourself clear.

And it is imperfect people making the claims you make. God is the One who knows who is really doing what He has His people doing, or not.

I trust Jesus when he said He had to be crucified so that the Holy Spirit would come to guide the Church Jesus instituted. It's not men. Trust me, I see the foibles of the Pope and the Cardinals in the current Church, but we know when we must listen to them (in matters of faith and morals) and when we don't have to listen to them. The Holy Spirit guides in faith and morals. I fear, past what I've stated, that I'd b debating, against the OP's wishes. This wasn't to be a Catholic/Protestant war.

Our Apostle Paul has clearly said who qualifies to "take care of the church of God" > 1 Timothy 3:1-10. If a group Protestant does not obey this, this is right in the Bible. So, if people do not obey this apostolic directive, I am not going to assume I can trust them to be honest with me.

So, this is my answer about how I evaluate a Protestant group. And I understand that Catholicism is off-topic for this thread. But I will say, if a Protestant group does not obey 1 Timothy 3:1-10, I am not going to assume I can trust their claims about their communion. So, in case a Protestant person is not obeying God's standard for who qualifies to "take care of the church of God", but is making up ways to get out of this, I know God can do better with His people and His real communion, than what disobedient people are doing.

Disobeying 1 Timothy 3:1-10 is not what qualified leadership does. God's obedient leaders obey 1 Timothy 3:1-10.

So, I do not have to choose who I am going to trust, from people who are not obeying how the Bible says men need to be qualified to "take care of the church of God" > 1 Timothy 3:1-10. So, in case a person claims to be Protestant, but does not obey God's standards which our Apostle Paul has given us for preparing and selecting pastors, I am not going to assume that person has correct claims about historicity and how that person does communion.

 

[Root of Jesse]

Exactly so.

Roman Catholics are the same as Protestants in that they gravitate toward groups which support their own intramural preferences. Perhaps it shouldn't be that way but it is and has been since the time of the Paul vs. Apollos factions.

On the "Roman" side of things there are preferences ranging from strict (almost cult like IMO) denominations like that of Mel Gibson and his family and those in far off monasteries to the liberal Catholic church down the street which doesn't really have much they would treat as sacred and necessary dogma.

Mel Gibson isn't a Catholic (meaning he's not in communion with the Church). There are definitely a wide range of personal faith in the Church, though. I love going to monasteries, and contemplate joining one if I'm the one left (if my wife dies).

Protestants like to go directly to the scriptures and be guided as they feel the Holy Spirit is teaching them. Naturally there would be a bit more diversity (even cults) in Protestantism. The Romans on the other hand usually try to link their beliefs to scripture interpretations approved by traditions within Romanism. There is less diversity of thought that way - but it is no guarantee against the advent of cults within Romanism.

The Lord will critique the mistakes we make in life along these lines - just as He will sort out who has and who has not truly trusted Christ alone for their salvation.

Some will be merely embarrassed when they suffer His critique and some will wail and gnash their teeth as they are assigned a place with the devil and His angels.

Some within Protestantism teach that the Roman group in general have adopted beliefs which require that they must suffer more than just embarrassment at their final judgment. Some within Romanism believe that the Protestant groups in general have adopted beliefs which require that they must suffer more than just embarrassment at their final judgment.

I for one am content to just critique the beliefs of other Christians and leave the final judgment as to their salvation to the Lord. I do have my suspicions however even if not dogmatic about it.

Time will tell.

 

[Marvin Knox]

Mel Gibson isn't a Catholic (meaning he's not in communion with the Church). ...........

Some within the Protestant camp say the same thing of Mitt Romney.

But I'll save final judgment as to whether he is a member of Christ's church or not until the Lord renders His verdict for all to see.

 

[Root of Jesse]

Some within the Protestant camp say the same thing of Mitt Romney.

But I'll save final judgment as to whether he is a member of Christ's church or not until the Lord renders His verdict for all to see.

I would say that Mormons aren't Christian. Although they would claim otherwise, the Mormon Church believes Jesus was an incarnated angel.

 

[com7fy8]

I see the foibles of the Pope and the Cardinals in the current Church, but we know when we must listen to them

I have been talking about ones claiming to be Protestant. I am talking about how ones do not obey the standard which our Apostle Paul has given for who qualifies to "take care of the church of God" > 1 Timothy 3:1-10.

It appears to me that some number of even whole Protestant groups do not obey this standard. This is not a matter only of "foibles", but of outright disobedience to what is plain and clear in God's word. I offer I do get that even a really qualified pastoral person is not totally perfect. But outrightly disobeying and ignoring and evading 1 Timothy 3:1-10 is a concern to me. Because God our Father is able to bring up people who do this the way He means this . . . for taking "care of the church of God."

But, as well as I can tell, prayerfully, there are people who do not claim to be Protestants, and they do have pastors who meet these basic qualifications which God has given to us through our Apostle Paul, in 1 Timothy 3:1-10.

But, I think it is possible that there can be individual Bible-qualified pastors, even in disobedient Protestant groups. What can happen is one might start off as a not qualified person, but then the person trusting in Jesus grows and matures to become an example leader >

"nor as being lords over those entrusted to you, but being examples to the flock." (1 Peter 5:3)

So, in spite of how even whole groups do not officially hold themselves to Paul's directive of 1 Timothy 3:1-10, God is succeeding with His obedient children. So, I do not choose one whole Protestant group over another @Unofficial Reverand Alex , but I pray and trust Jesus to have me know who is a qualified person according to 1 Timothy 3:1-10. And I feed on this person's example. I do not go by if the person has a label of Protestant or not.

But Hebrews 13:17 tells me to obey whoever is my Christian leader by example. So, part of choosing whom to obey and who pastors me is that I need real correction so God has me able to obey whomever He trusts to "take care of the church of God" (in 1 Timothy 3:1-10). So, an important part of this is what is required of me.

 

[Marvin Knox]

I would say that Mormons aren't Christian. Although they would claim otherwise, the Mormon Church believes Jesus was an incarnated angel.

As they say at Geico - "everybody knows that".

The Roman Catholics teach a great many false things as well. But I'm not prepared to say that all Catholics aren't saved because of them.

Hopefully many (even most) will be saved "in spite of them".

 

[TuxAme]

It’s all right here, brother (or sister)…

But anyone can pick up the Bible and come away with something totally different than you. It's not as simple as "it's right here" because we can't even agree on what "it" is. The Bible leads some people to Catholicism, others to Orthodoxy, others to one of the hundred or whatever protestant denominations, and yet others to the pseudo-Christian sects.

 

[TuxAme]

As they say at Geico - "everybody knows that".

The Roman Catholics teach a great many false things as well. But I'm not prepared to say that all Catholics aren't saved because of them.

Hopefully many (even most) will be saved "in spite of them".

That's debatable.

 

[thesunisout]

I asked the Lord what church He wanted me to go to and He led me to a Pentecostal church. It doesn't mean Pentecostalism is His preferred denomination, it just means that is where He wants me.

 

[Marvin Knox]

That's debatable.

Of course. That's why I'm willing to leave it to the final judgment of the Lord.