How do opossums fit into evolution?

[Loudmouth]

The ever loveable, ever cute opossums would seem to present a mystery to evolution. Why and how would such a creature ever evolve the characteristic "playing opossum"? To stop mid chase and fall into a catatonic state seems to be a pretty lousy "defense mechanism". To a hungry predatory animal this would be fast food turned into sit down dining.

In Christ, GB

Then why are the opossums still around? Obviously, it must work since they are still here and have a thriving population.

 

[good brother]

So you've seen this dog attack a possum that was playing dead?

Nope, I've just heard him burp afterwards. Honestly, no, I haven't witnessed my dog attack a opossum that was playing dead only because there have either been no opossums in our back yard or because I have not witnessed him kill or eat one. I rarely see him eat his own food out of his bowl, but I know it gets empty and I must refill it. Just because I have not seen something does not mean that something hasn't happened. What I have witnessed on many occassions is him haul deer parts from the neighbor's deer cleaning station and into our yard. I have seen him go after many a dead squirrel. I have seen him play with several dead moles. I have seen him chew on dead birds. I have seen him stalk a motionless squirrel or bird with his belly on the ground moving around almost like a cat though he is a Great Pyrenese, Saint Bernard, Siberian Husky mix. I have seen him go after many things that weren't moving.

Anyways, what was your point?

In Christ, GB

 

[good brother]

Not really, the explanation has been given, while creationism apparently has none at all.

Perhaps you could repost where that explanation was at?

Thank you, good sir.

In Christ, GB

 

[pgp_protector]

Perhaps you could repost where that explanation was at?

Thank you, good sir.

In Christ, GB

Umm Post #2 that you already responded to.

Many (most?) predators are primarily interested in live prey, and will avoid scavenging. For their prey, pretending to be dead may provide a selective advantage. That's the hypothesis, anyway -- it's a question that has to be answered empirically. As far as I can tell, only one study has been done on the subject. It looked at red flour beetles and determined that strains that feign death longer are indeed at a reproductive advantage.

SFS, As always, thank you for your honesty in your responses. That is a trait that is always admired, but seldom demonstrated for many people.

God bless you, my friend!

In Christ, GB

You may wish to get your memory checked if you forgot that already.

 

[good brother]

Umm Post #2 that you already responded to.

You may wish to get your memory checked if you forgot that already.

Thank you PGP. You may want to read the entire statement you post next time before you post it and act all snide.

Many (most?) predators are primarily interested in live prey, and will avoid scavenging. For their prey, pretending to be dead may provide a selective advantage. That's the hypothesis, anyway -- it's a question that has to be answered empirically. As far as I can tell, only one study has been done on the subject. It looked at red flour beetles and determined that strains that feign death longer are indeed at a reproductive advantage.

hy·poth·e·sis
[ hī póthəssiss ]

1. theory needing investigation: a tentative explanation for a phenomenon, used as a basis for further investigation
2. assumption: a statement that is assumed to be true for the sake of argument

It looks like it was an assumption that was given, not an all inclusive explanation. He was honest in the fact that this view was not empirical in it's conclusions. And I thanked him for his honesty. I fail to see how my questioning an assumption is unscientific in any way.


In Christ, GB

 

[Split Rock]

This is your best response to an honest question? Is there no answer for you other than to immediately start in on my beliefs instead of actually answering the question that was directed towards ToE? C'mon SplitRock, I know you have well thought out answers (even though I may disagree with them), we don't have to resort to "Nah nah nah boo boo, your theory's doo doo". If you're not going to have any mature input in the conversation, I'm going to ask you to bow out gracefully. Thank you sir.

In Christ, GB

Others already answered the question. For many predators, lying still or feigning death works. Predators are tuned in to a flight response, so will react to it. As far as your dog is concerned, perhaps your dog was not indicative of the typical behavior of predators that the opossum evolved to cope with.

My response was designed to point out that your question was based on the inaccurate assumption that the opossum's behavior was maladjusted. If the behavior is maladjusted it is a problem not only for evolution but creationism as well. If it is not, then it is a problem for neither.

 

[Loudmouth]

My response was designed to point out that your question was based on the inaccurate assumption that the opossum's behavior was maladjusted. If the behavior is maladjusted it is a problem not only for evolution but creationism as well. If it is not, then it is a problem for neither.

It's a problem for the observation that opposums are still around and thriving. If they are maladapted then they should have gone extinct, but they haven't.

 

[Gracchus]

If it seems to be dead, and you don't know how it died, and when, it is likely to make you sick. If it doesn't run and isn't dead, it is probably sick. Dogs will drag home carrion that they don't plan to eat because they like the smell.

Just some stray observations! This thread is not worth an argument.

 

[LifeToTheFullest!]

This thread is not worth an argument.

I am aware of this.





Enjoy!

Screaming Trees - Dollar Bill - YouTube

 

[Split Rock]

It's a problem for the observation that opposums are still around and thriving. If they are maladapted then they should have gone extinct, but they haven't.

That was going to be my follow up point.

 

[good brother]

If it seems to be dead, and you don't know how it died, and when, it is likely to make you sick. If it doesn't run and isn't dead, it is probably sick. Dogs will drag home carrion that they don't plan to eat because they like the smell.

And they'll also eat plenty of it too because they like the smell.

This thread is not worth an argument.

I never asked for an argument, all I want is a discussion.


Thank you for your input.

In Christ, GB

 

[good brother]

It's a problem for the observation that opposums are still around and thriving. If they are maladapted then they should have gone extinct, but they haven't.

You're right. They are still around and are still thriving. If this wasn't an advantageous adaptation, it would have drove them to extinction.

So I am going to ask a follow up question to the OP (and I can because I posted the OP), How could opossums have evolved such a trait? I read on one fact page (Opossum Facts) about opossums that they don't actually play dead, they are frightened into an involuntary shock like state. This would make it a non-learned behavior. How would an involuntary, non-learned action mimicking dead things ever "evolve" into a living animal's defense mechanism reptertoire?

Thank you for your input and I look forward to our discussion!

In Christ, GB

 

[Metal Minister]

You're right. They are still around and are still thriving. If this wasn't an advantageous adaptation, it would have drove them to extinction.

So I am going to ask a follow up question to the OP (and I can because I posted the OP), How could opossums have evolved such a trait? I read on one fact page (Opossum Facts) about opossums that they don't actually play dead, they are frightened into an involuntary shock like state. This would make it a non-learned behavior. How would an involuntary, non-learned action mimicking dead things ever "evolve" into a living animal's defense mechanism reptertoire?

Thank you for your input and I look forward to our discussion!

In Christ, GB

This reminds me of the "fainting goats" that many shephards would use as bait. They would keep a couple in a flock of regular sheep because if a predator came, they would "faint" and be eaten and the rest of the herd would be spared.

May God Richly Bless You! MM

 

[LifeToTheFullest!]

You're right. They are still around and are still thriving. If this wasn't an advantageous adaptation, it would have drove them to extinction.

So I am going to ask a follow up question to the OP (and I can because I posted the OP), How could opossums have evolved such a trait? I read on one fact page (Opossum Facts) about opossums that they don't actually play dead, they are frightened into an involuntary shock like state. This would make it a non-learned behavior. How would an involuntary, non-learned action mimicking dead things ever "evolve" into a living animal's defense mechanism reptertoire?

Thank you for your input and I look forward to our discussion!

In Christ, GB

I know, right!

 

[Loudmouth]

So I am going to ask a follow up question to the OP (and I can because I posted the OP), How could opossums have
evolved such a trait?

Opossums who ran away from predators were eaten at a higher rate than those who froze. This lead to the "freezers" leaving more offspring in the next generation.

 

[Metal Minister]

Opossums who ran away from predators were eaten at a higher rate than those who froze. This lead to the "freezers" leaving more offspring in the next generation.

Um, see my post about the fainting goats.

May God Richly Bless You! MM

 

[LifeToTheFullest!]

Um, see my post about the fainting goats.

May God Richly Bless You! MM

Um, non sequitur.

 

[Metal Minister]

Um, non sequitur.

How do you figure? Fainting goats are eaten because they freeze up like they're dead. Therefore it stands to reason that when an oppossum does it, it falls into a similar category. Just because it "faints" doesn't mean it won't get eaten, as predators tend to go for the easier meal.

May God Richly Bless You! MM

 

[Loudmouth]

Um, see my post about the fainting goats.

May God Richly Bless You! MM

Obviously, this strategy will not work for every species, and it is foolhardy to think that it will.

 

[LifeToTheFullest!]

How do you figure? Fainting goats are eaten because they freeze up like they're dead. Therefore it stands to reason that when an oppossum does it, it falls into a similar category. Just because it "faints" doesn't mean it won't get eaten, as predators tend to go for the easier meal.

May God Richly Bless You! MM

I'll let you figure it out.