How do I "make" myself believe?

Rick Otto

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For me, my faith grew incrementally. I didn't have no faith one day and then have 100% faith the next. When I was a young seeker, it took me over five years to DECIDE to give my heart to the Lord. After all of that time trying to "figure God out" and know why He did, what He did...I just realized that was impossible, and I was correct. Still, there was a small voice in me that wanted God in my life in a new way. Once I gave my heart to Him, I knew I had made the right decision because the Holy Spirit in me is wonderful and so convicting and feeling God with me at all times is the best feeling I know. I would not want a life without God, even though I do not live a sinless life and may not understand, or agree, with everything in the Bible. I am blessed to know that he wants me ANYWAY, just as He wants you. I wish you the best, this is an amazing journey.
Yep. I was thinking how lucky I am, raking up yard debris with my chickens keeping me company awhile ago. He got my attention early .
 
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JoeP222w

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Ephesians 2:1-2 And you were dead in the trespasses and sins (2) in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience—

A dead man can not generate faith in and of himself. Lazarus did not raise himself in the tomb by his faith (he was dead).

This is what the Bible says, not merely Calvinism.
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"More faith is definately something we can pray for. "

True, but any faith we have does not originate in us. It originates for the movement and work of God.

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"If you come to God with an ounce of faith, He will work with that."

Again, no one has that faith in themselves as the initiator.
 
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Rick Otto

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I can make myself follow Christ's teachings about how to live. I can make myself pray. I can make myself go to church. And I experience little "flashes" that are almost faith here and there. But none of that means anything without actual, full-on faith, right?

So where do I get faith? Christianity involves not just practices but a set of factual beliefs– I have to believe that God exists, that Christ was the son of God, that his death redeemed our sins, etc etc etc. Sometimes, I think it's like being presented with a box and told that, without opening it, I have to believe that there's a red ball inside it. I can acknowledge that there might be a red ball in there, but how can I make myself believe that there definitely, definitely is?

It can be infuriating. I want to have faith (sometimes, anyway), I pray for faith, I try ordering myself to believe, but something's missing. I haven't been able to force faith, and it's not coming on its own, and sometimes it's painfully frustrating– it's like I'm dying of thirst in a desert and faith is an oasis of water lying just out of reach of my lips. Is there anything I can do other than wait?
Sounds like you believe and your trouble is doubt.
Do you believe in the two greatest commandments?
Does Psalm 19 help at all?
Two of my favorite bedrock truths.
 
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ImAllLikeOkWaitWat

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True faith is rare even among those among us who call themselves christians. I think without genuine spiritual experiences that can only come from intense effort on your part in seeking out God and experiencing him one on one, you can't have truly genuine faith that sounds like what you seek. Do you want to be a casual christian or a hardcore born again believer who is willing to give everything up including their life for God and his son. Being a casual christian is hard enough for most people and seems impossible for unbelievers but if your heart is on fire for the lord you will find him and know him and believe in him.

I'm sure theres been instances in your life where you had to make a choice with little to no evidence and still acted. Well here is another one of those instances and the time is short to act. Once you die thats it. Of course fear alone can't make anyone believe and is not going to save you from the fire. So what I am saying is keep asking questions till you get the answers you are looking for.
 
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hedrick

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Truth faith is rare even among those among us who call themselves christians. I think without genuine spiritual experiences that can only come from intense effort on your part in seeking out God and experiencing him one on one, you can't have truly genuine faith that sounds like what you seek.

The problem with this is that neither Jesus nor Paul taught this as something Christians need to do.
 
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ImAllLikeOkWaitWat

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The problem with this is that neither Jesus nor Paul taught this as something Christians need to do.

Well they definitely preached fellowship with God and Jesus Christ. How does one fellowship without having spiritual experiences with God? Communicating with God is the only way. We need to learn how to hear Gods voice in our mind and heart and soul. And this in turn leads to us experiencing him on a daily basis. God is not this tyrant but our friend and father and we need to reach out to him like he reaches out to us.

Once you get to the point where you can talk to God like you would a friend then these experiences transcend faith to where you KNOW he is exists and faith is no longer needed.
 
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Rick Otto

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The problem with this is that neither Jesus nor Paul taught this as something Christians need to do.
Didn't David exemplify it?
Didn't Jesus say seek and yes shall find? (Matthew 7:7)
Isn't there a story about a persistent old woman being successful? (Luke 18:1-8).
You surprised me.
 
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ImAllLikeOkWaitWat

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Didn't David exemplify it?
Didn't Jesus say seek and yes shall find? (Matthew 7:7)
Isn't there a story about a persistent old woman being successful? (Luke 18:1-8).
You surprised me.

Great points. I think thats what is missing from most christians lives. That persistent clinging and leaning on the lord. We must be aggressive not passive in our pursuit of the Lord.
 
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Rick Otto

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Great points. I think thats what is missing from most christians lives. That persistent clinging and leaning on the lord. We must be aggressive not passive in our pursuit of the Lord.
Well, Hedrick should know better. I have no idea where he came from with that statement.
 
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hedrick

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Wait a sec, guys. I never said we weren’t expected to do anything. Jesus demanded obedience, after all. But the posting I was responding to talked specifically about religious experience, i.e. experiencing God.

Jesus himself did that, and probably Paul (though it depends a bit upon interpreting some of his statements). But neither taught that religious experience was a requirement for being Christian. Obedience, love, even prayer. But not what people normally mean by religious experience, and what I believe the posting (http://www.christianforums.com/threads/how-do-i-make-myself-believe.7908702/page-4#post-70150002) was referring to.

Furthermore, that posting would lead readers into assessing the adequacy of their own religious experience in order to get assurance of salvation. But nothing we do can make us worthy of salvation, so any honest self-assessment will lead to despair. This is precisely the problem Luther had before his conversion. Confidence in salvation has to come from appreciating what Christ did, not any assessment of ourselves. We should advise people who aren’t sure to look at Christ, not themselves.
 
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ImAllLikeOkWaitWat

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Wait a sec, guys. I never said we weren’t expected to do anything. Jesus demanded obedience, after all. But the posting I was responding to talked specifically about religious experience, i.e. experiencing God.

Jesus himself did that, and probably Paul (though it depends a bit upon interpreting some of his statements). But neither taught that religious experience was a requirement for being Christian. Obedience, love, even prayer. But not what people normally mean by religious experience, and what I believe the posting (http://www.christianforums.com/threads/how-do-i-make-myself-believe.7908702/page-4#post-70150002) was referring to.

Furthermore, that posting would lead readers into assessing the adequacy of their own religious experience in order to get assurance of salvation. But nothing we do can make us worthy of salvation, so any honest self-assessment will lead to despair. This is precisely the problem Luther had before his conversion. Confidence in salvation has to come from appreciating what Christ did, not any assessment of ourselves. We should advise people who aren’t sure to look at Christ, not themselves.

Experiencing God is part of the walk of christians. Are you saying christians should get born again then not experience god? It's our experiences that shape our faith one way or another. We are to walk with God in this life and not just passively wait by for God to come in our life. We should seek him extremely hard and more than any material thing in this world. Also I'm not saying religious experience is a requirement to be a christian but christian experiences are the only type that can increase faith. You won't increase your faith by reading the God delusion but by reading the word of God and seeking him. If you seek God and find him you experience him.

I'm not saying we need to work for our salvation. I'm saying that to really know you are saved and a christian you need to have daily fellowship with the father and Jesus Christ. And growing daily to become more and more like christ. These experiences lead to an increase in faith to the point where you know you are saved beyond a shadow of a doubt. How else can one know they are saved but by faith and how can one have faith, true faith but by knowing the Lord deeply. And this can only come by seeking him and finding him and experiencing him.

I am not saying that people who don't know God well or have any experience with him that they aren't saved. But surely such a person would have difficulty knowing they are saved without any experience getting to know God personally. It is all apart of our walk with Jesus Christ. We know we are saved because we trust in the Lord and how can we trust someone we don't know?
 
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Rick Otto

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I would say experiencing God is a spiritual experience, not a religious experience. I think of religion as man's attempt to explain and manage spiritual experience and knowledge.
I'm not denying Jesus valued obedience, but it almost sounds like obedience out of fear of death is equal to obedience out of love.
Who seeks God out of fear for their own safety?
If finding Him isn't worth risking your life to do, you don't really believe He values your life, or you value your life more than you value your Creator.
I don't mean to be obtuse or nit picking, but I
I'm thinking your fear is worthy, but misapplied.
Anything can lead to anything. This is about being motivated.

But that said, my case is somewhat different.
He reached out to me at 3& 1/2 yrs old. I wasn't looking or even curious.
But I got lost somehow, and went for broke at about 15 and managed to get back on track.
 
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crossnote

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Also I'm not saying religious experience is a requirement to be a christian but christian experiences are the only type that can increase faith.

Actually what increases our faith is God's Word in unison with God's Spirit. Experiences may or may not be a by product.

Romans 10:17 KJVS
[17] So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
 
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ImAllLikeOkWaitWat

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Actually what increases our faith is God's Word in unison with God's Spirit. Experiences may or may not be a by product.

Romans 10:17 KJVS
[17] So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Surely hearing gods word is a christian experience? no? An experience doesn't have to be something big and memorable. Just reading the bible is a christian experience. I also think that verse is just saying faith BEGINS by hearing the word of God. But there are many degrees of faith and Gods word is a major part in beginning our journey of faith. To maintain it and increase it to knowing God exists rather than having faith he does, requires work on our part. You aren't going to know God by avoiding him and focusing on financial pursuits or other worldly pursuits. So I think as christians we should take an active part in increasing our faith and that can only be done by getting to know God on a personal level. There are many people who understand doctrine better than 99% of christians yet they never spent the time to know God and their faith went away. We see this in the many atheist theology professors. They know all the doctrine but never knew God for if they knew him they would have never left him.
 
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