How do I know....it's the Holy Spirit and not my own fickle self?

[LizaMarie]

I'm not as well written and articulate as the rest of you but here goes...
for brevity:
I was baptized,confirmed and educated as a Missouri Synod Lutheran. Lutheran teachings stayed in my heart. I don't remember hearing any anti_RCC growing up in the 60's and 70's except that Luther was so right to reform the church and scrape off all the barnacles that had collected on the ship and false teachings in the church. And rediscover, so to speak, the heart of the gospel. . John 3:16.
As a teen, I fell away. Then, through friends,at the age of about 20, (in the 70's) attending Chuck Smith's Calvary Chapel and heard the gospel, felt a stirring in my heart, went forward and gave my life to Christ(now I had already been baptized and confirmed but I was told that that didn't count as I didn't understand being baptized as an infant)So then next ten years or so an evangelical Christian with a lot of side roads and more falling away.
late '80's recommitted my life to Christ and was so excited to be a Christian back at Calvary Chapel really lived my Christianity this time- and stayed a committed Christian(of course I am a sinner). Started disagreeing with their escatological viewpoints(pre-Trib Rapture)and their view of the Sacraments(the Lord's Supper and Baptism were only outward symbols that we do in obedience but have no regenerative power themselves) My old confirmation class was coming back to me so I went back to a Lutheran Church right around the corner (ElCA)and I was home again. The richness of the Liturgy, sacraments, even the Bible Studies were so much deeper than what I experienced as an Evangelical even though I will always be grateful for that church(Calvary) that got me out of my New Age thinking and got me back to God.
Ok so I get married,(a Baptist guy) this is after a move out of state and we move and settle in a WELS Lutheran church as I was very discouraged with the liberal way the ELCA was going, and my husband was encouraged by the strong Biblical emphasis and conservative leanings of the WELS. We were happy there, but then by being involved in our local pro-life ministry I started reading about Church History, and started becoming enamored with the RCC. Basically, I started reading a lot of things through a number of about 5 years and though "Maybe we should become Catholic." It would take several rambling posts to go through all that but basically: It came down to the fact that I came to the conclusion that to quote Cardinal John Henry Newman: to be deep in history is to cease to be a Protestant.
But there were barriers, No#1 it would be so hard to change churches in this small town, my husbands previous marriage, and the fact that our children attended Lutheran school and my oldest son was SOO distressed at the thought of us becoming Catholic-my kids are solid Lutherans, Son said "Please we can't become Catholic and not go to church together anymore!"
So-stayed in the Lutheran Church.
Now for the last few years I've been looking at Orthodoxy and been falling in love with it-still do hold that the RCC are right about some things(original sin) but I'm reading all I can about the Orthodox Church. Now I think THAT may be the true church. And my husband, who was open to the RCC has now made a comment that there are things he likes so much better about Orthodoxy and he always had issues with the RCC on several things. (Duh, Purgatory and indulgences)
But it's not about how I or we feel, it's about what is TRUE!!
So please pray for us, as we continue to investigate.
To edit:closest EO parish is 80 miles away do plan to get there!

 

[archer75]

So please pray for us, as we continue to investigate.

Good luck. It's worth looking into, I think.

 

[LizaMarie]

It's hard when there are so many churches-Too bad Christianity isn't just one church.
I don't want to be a denomination hopper.
And my husband as a child changed several denominations and hated it.
His parents went through Reformed, Baptist,Assemblies of God, and he wanted OUR family to go to church together in ONE church. Which we have. Our kids are grown and are solid Lutherans.
Our kids from his first marriage are evangelicals. All Christians thanks be to God!
It's my reading and studying the Early Church that has got me wanting to change-other wise I would have been content as we are-like many people are.
To edit my oldest son who was High School age then said his Catholic Friends knew nothing about the Bible and that's one reason he was so opposed to it and thought it wasn't a good church.

 

[archer75]

It's hard when there are so many churches-Too bad Christianity isn't just one church.
I don't want to be a denomination hopper.
And my husband as a child changed several denominations and hated it.
His parents went through Reformed, Baptist,Assemblies of God, and he wanted our family to go to church together in one church. Which we have. our kids are grown and are solid Lutherans.
Our kids from his first marriage are evangelicals. All Christians thanks be to God!
It's my reading and studying the Early Church that has got me wanting to change-other wise I would have been content as we are-like many people are.

You'll get better replies on this thread, but I have have heard it said that when people come to Orthodoxy, they aren't denying the faith they previously held, but fulfilling it.

 

[Anto9us]

My son is Orthodox - I have THE ORTHODOX STUDY BIBLE and love the commentary notes.

I grew up Methodist - never considered it "the one true church" -- just one true church out of many.

I still like Methodist, also some non-denom...

I went to my son's Ortho Church for his chrismation -- the building use to be a Baptist Church where I once sang in a Christian rock band.

My Dad went to Methodist church from age 3 til he passed away at 96 - taught sunday school up to the last two years.

He said it don't make a "Hill of Beans" which church you go to - long as you go

 

[~Anastasia~]

Prayers for you.

I don't think it's something to beat yourself up over - going through stages of discovering Truth I mean, and so going through a number of denominations. I hope not - it's what I did as well, and many people have done.

I think "Church hopping" is maybe bad if done for the wrong reasons - maybe disagreements between people when no attempt is made to work them out, or to cultivate social connections, etc. But to do so in seeking the truth - it seems to me that's what we should be doing.

I do think the current state of Christianity is most unfortunate. I wish there was only one Church that all Christians belonged to also, and could expect right teaching, etc. But even in the early Christian era, there were already heresies and sects, so really I guess it's never been like that except maybe when the Apostles and their direct successors might have had things in hand for brief periods? Though I'm thinking they (at that time) would not have recognized the "Christian landscape" of today. I've been interested in the history of how that happened, but that's another topic.

Feel free, in fact please do stay around, and ask any questions you may have. We always have St. Justin's if you need to debate out any points. Happy to help however we can.

Prayers!!!

 

[LizaMarie]

You'll get better replies on this thread, but I have have heard it said that when people come to Orthodoxy, they aren't denying the faith they previously held, but fulfilling it.

I like that...
What started me on the whole road was the Nicene (or Apostles) creed that states:
ONE, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic.
Apostolic succession: I think only three "branches" of Christianity can claim that, the RCC, the EO and the OO. Sooo- for me it's either EO or RC I hope some day.
My son's exclamation of "No Catholic!!" years ago reminds me of a recent conversion story of an Episcopal Priest who became Orthodox who had a dream when he realized he had to enter the Ancient faith: he thought about becoming Catholic but then he had a dream that a jeep full of Catholic bishops were passing him by running from a catastrophe and he begged to ride with them and they ignored him,
and His mother, in real life, said something along the lines of "Oh God anything but Catholic!" and then providentially things happened to lead him right into the orthodox Church.
My son said "Not the Catholic church!!!" but he wanted to remain in our church and his school.
Then I had a dream I was standing outside an Orthodox church looking in at icons, but couldn't get in.
Crazy dreams? Coincedence? My own fickle mind? this was awhile ago.

 

[LizaMarie]

Prayers for you.

I don't think it's something to beat yourself up over - going through stages of discovering Truth I mean, and so going through a number of denominations. I hope not - it's what I did as well, and many people have done.

I think "Church hopping" is maybe bad if done for the wrong reasons - maybe disagreements between people when no attempt is made to work them out, or to cultivate social connections, etc. But to do so in seeking the truth - it seems to me that's what we should be doing.

I do think the current state of Christianity is most unfortunate. I wish there was only one Church that all Christians belonged to also, and could expect right teaching, etc. But even in the early Christian era, there were already heresies and sects, so really I guess it's never been like that except maybe when the Apostles and their direct successors might have had things in hand for brief periods? Though I'm thinking they (at that time) would not have recognized the "Christian landscape" of today. I've been interested in the history of how that happened, but that's another topic.

Feel free, in fact please do stay around, and ask any questions you may have. We always have St. Justin's if you need to debate out any points. Happy to help however we can.

Prayers!!!

Thank you!!

 

[Greg Merrill]

Father, did You give us the Catholic Church, or the Baptist Church, or the Methodist or Lutheran, or any other church to be our final authority? It seems Matthew 4:4 and Deuteronomy 6:13 both hold up Your Word, Your own communication to us, to be the final authority (John 12:48). All churches are made up by humans, and humans are fallible. It is Your Word that was given through Your direct breathe/inspiration, in such a way as to be infallible that is to be our final authority and supreme guide (2 Timothy 3:16; 2 Peter 1:20-21; Psalms 12:6-7 in the KJV). May this lady not bounce between churches, but allow the teachings of Scripture to direct her way, not the teachings of any church, unless those teachings are the correct teachings of Your Word. Amen.
Note: I have read in at least one version of the Bible where Psa 12:7 refers to "preserving people" rather than "preserving the Word of God".

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

But it's not about how I or we feel, it's about what is TRUE!!
So please pray for us, as we continue to investigate.

Amen.

I think only three "branches" of Christianity can claim that, the RCC, the EO and the OO. Sooo- for me it's either EO or RC I hope some day.

Keep testing, trying, and praying for truth. Yes, it is difficult and requires the whole heart devoted to God and God's Word by faith in Jesus,
trusting God and relying on God to accomplish His Purpose.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Then I had a dream I was standing outside an Orthodox church looking in at icons, but couldn't get in.
Crazy dreams? Coincidence? My own fickle mind? this was awhile ago.

Enjoy the journey , the adventure, the ecstasy of victory and defeat !
Always in line perfectly with all of God's Word, as He Says.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

It's my reading and studying the Early Church that has got me wanting to change-other wise I would have been content as we are-like many people are.

Was it that reading, or God's entreating you heart ? (God, I believe and think you do too).... so keep seeking, and go back even earlier... God Willing if it is possible....
God loves to entreat people to the truth !

 

[ArmyMatt]

prayers for you!

I wish I could add more!

 

[ArmyMatt]

Father, did You give us the Catholic Church, or the Baptist Church, or the Methodist or Lutheran, or any other church to be our final authority? It seems Matthew 4:4 and Deuteronomy 6:13 both hold up Your Word, Your own communication to us, to be the final authority (John 12:48). All churches are made up by humans, and humans are fallible. It is Your Word that was given through Your direct breathe/inspiration, in such a way as to be infallible that is to be our final authority and supreme guide (2 Timothy 3:16; 2 Peter 1:20-21; Psalms 12:6-7 in the KJV). May this lady not bounce between churches, but allow the teachings of Scripture to direct her way, not the teachings of any church, unless those teachings are the correct teachings of Your Word. Amen.
Note: I have read in at least one version of the Bible where Psa 12:7 refers to "preserving people" rather than "preserving the Word of God".

actually, the Father through His Son established the One Church (which is now the Orthodox). the New Testament was not even begun until 17 years after the Church was established, and only codified 400 years later by the very same one Church that was established at Pentecost.

 

[Anto9us]

It was JESUS who said He would build the Church -- and the gates of hell would not prevail against it...

These divisions? bah

 

[Unofficial Reverand Alex]

I'm not as well written and articulate as the rest of you but here goes...

I'd disagree with that, you came off pretty clear.

heard the gospel, felt a stirring in my heart, went forward and gave my life to Christ(now I had already been baptized and confirmed but I was told that that didn't count as I didn't understand being baptized as an infant)

I can connect with this. Baptism as an infant does count, although saying "it counts" or "it doesn't count" is too vague to say much more here. Still, it's one thing to be a Christian by definition, and quite another to be a Christian by application. I've been Catholic all my life, but only last August did I actually start doing something with my faith. Kind of strange how it happened; when coming to college (last August is when I started), I didn't do anything with the Christian Campus House, I wasn't even sure if I was going to keep going to church--I went the first weekend, more out of habit than anything else. Of course, now I can see that was the Holy Spirit pushing me to stay with my faith, but I didn't know it at the time.
What happened was that I decided to start looking for a girlfriend. My last relationship ended disastrously, and I haven't had any luck since then, so I decided to join the Christian Campus House, because if I was going to get a girlfriend, it had to be with God in charge, because clearly, I can't do this on my own.
Amazing what happens when you surrender yourself to God! Without even realizing it, I completely surrendered a very integral part of my life to God, and He completely transformed my soul because of it! I've since become very deep in my Christianity, have a full Catholic Bible that I read through for 30 minutes a day for Lent, I'm involved in several Christian small groups, go to daily mass, and I'm still single, but feel much more optimistic about it!
I thought that was relevant; hopefully you did, too. Long story short, actually giving yourself to God for more than an hour a week is incredible.

Son said "Please we can't become Catholic and not go to church together anymore!"

“Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I have come to turn
“‘a man against his father,
a daughter against her mother,
a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law—
a man’s enemies will be the members of his own household.'
“Anyone who loves their father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; anyone who loves their son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. Whoever does not take up their cross and follow me is not worthy of me. Whoever finds their life will lose it, and whoever loses their life for my sake will find it."
Something to keep in mind. If you do come to find that another church is the One True Church, remember that God should be your top priority, and as hard as it may be, divisions in your own family can result.

But it's not about how I or we feel, it's about what is TRUE!!
So please pray for us, as we continue to investigate.

The most important thing is that you're trying to follow Christ. You may never "find" the True Church that you're looking for, but if that happens, you may die knowing that you did your best to follow Christ. Remember that God sees the heart (1 Samuel 16:7), and blessed are the pure of heart (Matthew 5:1-12). Near as I can tell, you're heart's in the right place, so you're already in the right place in God's eyes.
Feel free to put something on "One Bread, One Body" for other people's input on any Catholic issues, and "The Ancient Way" for Orthodox, if you just want people to explain things you don't understand. To see the official Catholic teachings, there's a book called "The Catechism of the Catholic Church". To put it simply, the Bible is the Word of God, and the Catechism is its application. It explains Church teachings in a fairly easy-to-read style, and is available for free on the Vatican's website, or pretty cheap if you want a physical book. (I just got a copy from my church). I'm sure Orthodox has something similar, but someone else can tell you more about that. It's very helpful to look at the official teachings of the Church, instead of just taking someone's word for it.
Prayers going out for you in the Quest for the Truth!

 

[LizaMarie]

I'd disagree with that, you came off pretty clear.

I can connect with this. Baptism as an infant does count, although saying "it counts" or "it doesn't count" is too vague to say much more here. Still, it's one thing to be a Christian by definition, and quite another to be a Christian by application. I've been Catholic all my life, but only last August did I actually start doing something with my faith. Kind of strange how it happened; when coming to college (last August is when I started), I didn't do anything with the Christian Campus House, I wasn't even sure if I was going to keep going to church--I went the first weekend, more out of habit than anything else. Of course, now I can see that was the Holy Spirit pushing me to stay with my faith, but I didn't know it at the time.
What happened was that I decided to start looking for a girlfriend. My last relationship ended disastrously, and I haven't had any luck since then, so I decided to join the Christian Campus House, because if I was going to get a girlfriend, it had to be with God in charge, because clearly, I can't do this on my own.
Amazing what happens when you surrender yourself to God! Without even realizing it, I completely surrendered a very integral part of my life to God, and He completely transformed my soul because of it! I've since become very deep in my Christianity, have a full Catholic Bible that I read through for 30 minutes a day for Lent, I'm involved in several Christian small groups, go to daily mass, and I'm still single, but feel much more optimistic about it!
I thought that was relevant; hopefully you did, too. Long story short, actually giving yourself to God for more than an hour a week is incredible.

“Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I have come to turn
“‘a man against his father,
a daughter against her mother,
a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law—
a man’s enemies will be the members of his own household.'
“Anyone who loves their father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; anyone who loves their son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. Whoever does not take up their cross and follow me is not worthy of me. Whoever finds their life will lose it, and whoever loses their life for my sake will find it."
Something to keep in mind. If you do come to find that another church is the One True Church, remember that God should be your top priority, and as hard as it may be, divisions in your own family can result.

The most important thing is that you're trying to follow Christ. You may never "find" the True Church that you're looking for, but if that happens, you may die knowing that you did your best to follow Christ. Remember that God sees the heart (1 Samuel 16:7), and blessed are the pure of heart (Matthew 5:1-12). Near as I can tell, you're heart's in the right place, so you're already in the right place in God's eyes.
Feel free to put something on "One Bread, One Body" for other people's input on any Catholic issues, and "The Ancient Way" for Orthodox, if you just want people to explain things you don't understand. To see the official Catholic teachings, there's a book called "The Catechism of the Catholic Church". To put it simply, the Bible is the Word of God, and the Catechism is its application. It explains Church teachings in a fairly easy-to-read style, and is available for free on the Vatican's website, or pretty cheap if you want a physical book. (I just got a copy from my church). I'm sure Orthodox has something similar, but someone else can tell you more about that. It's very helpful to look at the official teachings of the Church, instead of just taking someone's word for it.
Prayers going out for you in the Quest for the Truth!

I did buy the CCC a few years ago in a Protestant Book store-have read parts of it!

 

[LizaMarie]

prayers for you!

I wish I could add more!

Thanks Father!!

 

[frienden thalord]

Amen.

Keep testing, trying, and praying for truth. Yes, it is difficult and requires the whole heart devoted to God and God's Word by faith in Jesus,
trusting God and relying on God to accomplish His Purpose.

I have noticed this increase of gathering unto Unity with Rome.
But I say we better test that spirit . WHY would God want unity with
a church that leads in interfaith . Why would God desire us to go under certain pratices
which HE has made clear he despises.
This move , this spirit that is at work has been tested and failed big time .
Its not the work of the Spirit of GOD. Another Spirit is at work for unity
but unity under what . Israel got punished when it built its golden calf
What on earth makes any of us think that God is well pleased with this golden interfaith bull.
That Rome leads in and others follow .

 

[~Anastasia~]

Welcome to all our visitors. Please be aware of where you are posting. We welcome all people in fellowship, but this is not a debate area (we have one if anyone wants - St. Justin Martyr's). And teaching against a particular congregation's doctrines is not allowed in any congregational forum.

Just wanted to get that said - busy at Church tonight and I'd rather save the mods having to do cleanup.