How do I explain that Homosexuality is Wrong While Reassuring Others Of God's Love?

Rawtheran said:

Heck off, I came on here to get correction and spiritual support so I can learn from what happened today, not to be put down by a jerk like you.

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Oh I didn't put you down. I asked how you were qualified to be a youth pastor.

Rawtheran said:

And to be honest the Church of the Nazarene isn't really as conservative as it used to be at least not among members and Pastors who are 20-50.

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That may be....we once had 'youth' pastor in the late 80's who railed against make-up, pantyhose and movies......must be dating myself with that one.....

civilwarbuff said:

That may be....we once had 'youth' pastor in the late 80's who railed against make-up, pantyhose and movies......must be dating myself with that one.....

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What was his issue with pantyhose?

summerville said:

What was his issue with pantyhose?

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I dunno, I almost got up and walked out of his service over such stupidity and he just lost all the kids in that audience.....

It is in the Bible narrative. Being like God, in the beginning was excellence, then the fall. God wants us to be like Him. Holy and loving... The youth need to be convinced of that. He loves us however we currently are, and persists in times to come, when we fall. Like in Psalm 40. He gives us His blood in Jesus' blood to make us His own children of His own blood. It cleans and justifies one.

Homosexuals love people of the same sex romanticly within the context of a delusion. It is not to the benefit of their desire to have their own children. IMHO.

Homosexuals are prone to suicide and should be treated with more care. As in Martin's testimony, his NDE in which he was not condemned.

We need to exclude from exegesis the idea that the Bible is literally a complete book. And that the church fathers and the Spirit cannot produce solid truths presently. Looking at the early church fathers selectively.

When using Sola Scriptura we need to know that the Bible is not complete, 2 Tim 3:16,17 ASV, and on the same token not a science book. Romans 1-3 is not the be all and end all summation about homosexuality. Reading it does not fully equip one for ministry to homosexuals. Such as Boy Erased style gay reversion therapy.

Look at the example of Sy Rogers.
Sy Rogers - Wikipedia

Look at examples of same sex attraction, David Bowie, chose it under the persuasion of his first wife. Later left it behind. Other people are born that way.

So homosexuals by the Spirit or by the holiness of Christ admire Him so much they want to live like Jesus' disciples. Jesus wants that, for admiration and worship... Jesus knows He is the greatest. He is sure He has the best for homosexuals...

Go over the Greek words for love, like eros, phila, from philosophy and philadelphia. And Agape...

The ancient Greeks under Paul, went from thinking the gods alone produced agape for each other and ignored us, to discovering God loved us with agape and that we could love each other with agape.

Natural love and the love of God, the love in the Spirit, agape, are different. And God is love and wants us to be full of His love.

If we are going to live forever, a million years with the same people harmoniously and without grudges, fights, thefts and adulteries... we need grace, love, Christ-likeness, infused into our hearts and character. Otherwise the Christian life and life after, are impossible. So we slip alot but there is mercy. Romans 5:5. Psalms 40, 51.

civilwarbuff said:

I dunno, I almost got up and walked out of his service over such stupidity and he just lost all the kids in that audience.....

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Can't say I blame you. I have walked out on a few birdbrain preachers.

Rawtheran said:

No it was not a sermon it was a discussion. Truthfully no one was prepared because what happened today was a real shocker

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I suspect redleghunter suggested that you talk to a pastor to get advice on how to address the issue pastorally, not because of uncertainty on the doctrine. I don’t want to sound unsympathetic, but from your account it sounds like you didn’t educate anyone, but you did give the impression that they aren't welcome. Is that what you wanted as the outcome?

When you see someone that you think might be doing something wrong, immediately having a public discussion is going to feel like a public attack on them. It also robs you of time to think about what approach you want to take.

What is your goal? The traditional approach is church discipline. That starts in private, with an attempt to understand the situation and the people. In this case, since it's unlikely that you'll convert a lesbian to being straight, that means she leaves. Is that what you want? It may well be that it is. But at least you owe it to her to use the traditional approach to discipline, which starts in private. Indeed it starts with listening.

Rawtheran said:

Hello everyone I am in need of seasoned advice. Today in Youth Group in which I help lead we went over the topic of Homosexuality and what the Bible had to say about it as well as what the official doctrine of the Universal church had to say. Needless to say I don't feel that the other Youth Leaders and myself did a very good job of explaining homosexuality and why is it considered wrong. Some like myself were after of offending others and kinda had this mentality that well it's 2020 and it's ok in the west to be in a homosexual relationship. I tried the best I could to explain how God is loving but that homosexuality was a demonic manifestation and lie. At the end of it they still believed that love was love. Do any of you have any experience witnessing to homosexuals or how do we stand firm on the truth but present it in love?

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It's about lust ... and most humans are prone to it (lust) .... gay or not. Many forms of lust.

1 Corinthians 6:18
Flee from sexual immorality. Every other sin a person commits is outside the body, but the sexually immoral person sins against his own body.

4202 porneía (the root of the English terms "pornography, pornographic"; cf. 4205 /pórnos) which is derived from pernaō, "to sell off") – properly, a selling off (surrendering) of sexual purity; promiscuity of any (every) type.

sin is sin .... and we all sin .... Jesus will help us to overcome our sin ... any sin.

Just let them know what the word of God says ... and also that everyone (including christians) struggle with sin but that there is help for all of us through following Jesus.

Murder is a sin ... yet no one has a problem stating that it is. And even so, murder can be forgiven. Do they think it's "ok" to commit murder? Of course not. Well ... why not? It is harmful ... any sin is harmful ... and homosexuality is certainly not the only sin. Lying is a sin, stealing is a sin, idolatry is a sin, adultery is a sin etc...

1 Corinthians 6:9-10
Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.

We are all sinners. We are all called to repentance. We all need help and only that help comes through Jesus and it is a life-time commitment and all will stumble here and there.

God created us in his image .... to be righteous. Gods word defines what sin is .... states it is harmful .... one either believes/accepts that or not.

Point them to Jesus ... be kind ... and pray for them ... witness to them just as you would anybody else who is sinning.

In short .... God loves the sinner but hates sin ... and that goes for all of us.

Guys. The OP doesn't need doctrinal advice. He already agrees with you. He needs advice on being pastoral.

eleos1954 said:

It's about lust ... and most humans are prone to it (lust) .... gay or not. Many forms of lust.

1 Corinthians 6:18
Flee from sexual immorality. Every other sin a person commits is outside the body, but the sexually immoral person sins against his own body.

4202 porneía (the root of the English terms "pornography, pornographic"; cf. 4205 /pórnos) which is derived from pernaō, "to sell off") – properly, a selling off (surrendering) of sexual purity; promiscuity of any (every) type.

sin is sin .... and we all sin .... Jesus will help us to overcome our sin ... any sin.

Just let them know what the word of God says ... and also that everyone (including christians) struggle with sin but that there is help for all of us through following Jesus.

Murder is a sin ... yet no one has a problem stating that it is. And even so, murder can be forgiven. Do they think it's "ok" to commit murder? Of course not. Well ... why not? It is harmful ... any sin is harmful ... and homosexuality is certainly not the only sin. Lying is a sin, stealing is a sin, idolatry is a sin, adultery is a sin etc...

1 Corinthians 6:9-10
Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.

We are all sinners. We are all called to repentance. We all need help and only that help comes through Jesus and it is a life-time commitment and all will stumble here and there.

God created us in his image .... to be righteous. Gods word defines what sin is .... states it is harmful .... one either believes/accepts that or not.

Point them to Jesus ... be kind ... and pray for them ... witness to them just as you would anybody else who is sinning.

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James 2:10 says, "If you have committed one sin you are guilty of all."

Thinking...……………..

Rawtheran said:

Hello everyone I am in need of seasoned advice. Today in Youth Group in which I help lead we went over the topic of Homosexuality and what the Bible had to say about it as well as what the official doctrine of the Universal church had to say. Needless to say I don't feel that the other Youth Leaders and myself did a very good job of explaining homosexuality and why is it considered wrong. Some like myself were after of offending others and kinda had this mentality that well it's 2020 and it's ok in the west to be in a homosexual relationship. I tried the best I could to explain how God is loving but that homosexuality was a demonic manifestation and lie. At the end of it they still believed that love was love. Do any of you have any experience witnessing to homosexuals or how do we stand firm on the truth but present it in love?

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Some wrote homosexuality is unnatural lust. Jesus Christ preached against lust.

summerville said:

James 2:10 says, "If you have committed one sin you are guilty of all."

Thinking...……………..

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Yep .... sin is sin.

In regards to the demonic, Dr Ken Fish testified of a homosexual brother who wanted and gained deliverance from a spirit resulting in him being free from same sex attraction. And an all good experience.

Sad if a man tries to live heterosexually, has a family, only to break down and be caught in an affair. Although I know a man who managed that without the affair.

GoldenKingGaze said:

In regards to the demonic, Dr Ken Fish testified of a homosexual brother who wanted and gained deliverance from a spirit resulting in him being free from same sex attraction. And an all good experience.

Sad if a man tries to live heterosexually, has a family, only to break down and be caught in an affair. Although I know a man who managed that without the affair.

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I hate the idea that a homosexual should marry and have children to try and pass as a heterosexual.

Homosexuality is not demonic. It is psychological, a psychosocial disorder. The one Church Jesus Christ founded, to which He promised the fullness of God's truth, has many homosexual members in good standing. They live their lives as God calls them to live, just like the heterosexual members. Sexual orientation is not a moral issue, since it is not freely chosen. Sexual behavior is a moral issue, regardless of one's orientation.

OP, I'm curious if your guests inquired about your church's teaching on the subject, if you felt the need to tell them, or how the subject came up exactly? They would have to be living in a cave to not know already know what you told them. In which case, your words are likely to have no bearing on their orientation or behavior. I wonder if a better approach would not have been to accept them as guests among you and give other aspects of the Word opportunity to sink into them over time? Otherwise you might not get a second chance.

Rawtheran said:

Hello everyone I am in need of seasoned advice. Today in Youth Group in which I help lead we went over the topic of Homosexuality and what the Bible had to say about it as well as what the official doctrine of the Universal church had to say. Needless to say I don't feel that the other Youth Leaders and myself did a very good job of explaining homosexuality and why is it considered wrong. Some like myself were after of offending others and kinda had this mentality that well it's 2020 and it's ok in the west to be in a homosexual relationship. I tried the best I could to explain how God is loving but that homosexuality was a demonic manifestation and lie. At the end of it they still believed that love was love. Do any of you have any experience witnessing to homosexuals or how do we stand firm on the truth but present it in love?

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It's extremely difficult. The main reason is the gay community has pushed so hard and become seen as a great wonderful thing. Saying anything about God's moral principles immediately gets a person labelled as a hater. People can't accept that among other sexual sins is that this is just one more.

So first do make sure you are not inadvertently focusing exclusively on homosexuality because it is no worse or better than any other sexual sin. Fornication and adulty is every bit as wrong as practising homosexuality. I also make a distinction between struggling with, being tempted by and practising. We are all tempted to sin, we all struggle with sin. Some people might struggle with an addiction or anger or self-harm or gossip. All fall short of the glory of God, all need Jesus. I think a lot of people make the mistake of singling out homosexuality as being worse than whatever it is they struggle with.

I believe homosexuality and any other gender issue comes about because something went wrong during the childhood and teen years while the child was forming their identity. The highest risk factor is a father who disapproves and a son who has never felt he could identify with him. This sets the scene for the devil to move in. The most important thing is for a boy to feel he has male approval and can identify with other normal males. Identifying with men is how a boy learns to be a man. As a young man you can play a big part in showing interest in the boys and giving them someone to look up to and identify with.

Next, teach that all sexual sins are sins and that includes sex outside of marriage and watching porn.

(KJV) 1 Cor 13:5 [Love] Doth not behave itself unseemly,

(KJV) Rom 1:27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly . . .

Some will consider this overly simplistic. But, upon the authority of Scripture, it can be shown that homosexuality does not involve love, as it is described in 1 Cor 13.

msortwell said:

(KJV) 1 Cor 13:5 [Love] Doth not behave itself unseemly,

(KJV) Rom 1:27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly . . .

Some will consider this overly simplistic. But, upon the authority of Scripture, it can be shown that homosexuality does not involve love, as it is described in 1 Cor 13.

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So what do you do the first time you meet a gay couple who obviously do love each other in that sense? Say you’re only pretending?

Rawtheran said:

Hello everyone I am in need of seasoned advice. Today in Youth Group in which I help lead we went over the topic of Homosexuality and what the Bible had to say about it as well as what the official doctrine of the Universal church had to say. Needless to say I don't feel that the other Youth Leaders and myself did a very good job of explaining homosexuality and why is it considered wrong. Some like myself were after of offending others and kinda had this mentality that well it's 2020 and it's ok in the west to be in a homosexual relationship. I tried the best I could to explain how God is loving but that homosexuality was a demonic manifestation and lie. At the end of it they still believed that love was love. Do any of you have any experience witnessing to homosexuals or how do we stand firm on the truth but present it in love?

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Pretty much every gay person has heard all of the explanations for why some people believe “homosexuality is wrong.” They’ve heard it all before, and they’ve laid awake at night thinking about it far more than you have. I really can’t imagine telling them that they are Posessed by demons having any effect other than driving them away or making them want to die.