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Featured How do I explain that Homosexuality is Wrong While Reassuring Others Of God's Love?

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by Rawtheran, Mar 15, 2020.

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  1. GingerBeer

    GingerBeer Cool and refreshing with a kick!

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    Yes, I think that Christians do exactly that but the polls include the opinions of long dead people and the material in biblical texts.
     
  2. bekkilyn

    bekkilyn Contemplative Christian Supporter

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    With that said, it's really not our job to convince others of our views. We can state what we believe. We can inform people of our current church doctrines, but that's where we must leave it. Any sort of convincing or conversion is up to God through his Spirit should God choose to do so.
     
  3. Chris35

    Chris35 New Member

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    Homosexuality is sinful, there are alot of verses that explains why. However it is no worse then other sins like adultery, and sin seperates from God.

    The good news is God still loves them. Jesus died for all sin. Jesus didnt die for some sins and not others, he died for all sin. So that we could be free of it.

    Homosexuality isnt a demonic manifestation, it is a manifestation of the flesh.

    19The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like.

    16So I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. 17For the flesh desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh.

    The question then arises, at what point does one start trusting the word of God over what their own flesh is telling them?

    I dont think you should of made the topic about homosexuality at all, it threw everyone off. The topic should of been about the flesh, how the flesh causes all these things, how the flesh is against God, and include homosexuality in that.

    We are bought with a price, our body is not our own, so we are to let go of our flesh, the desires of the flesh, and walk in his spirit.
     
  4. redleghunter

    redleghunter Thank You Jesus! Supporter

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    Indeed polls on what people believe are useful.
     
  5. JackRT

    JackRT OOPS!!! Supporter

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  6. hedrick

    hedrick Senior Veteran Supporter

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    I have not tried to convince the OP that homosexuality is OK. Rather, I've tried to warn him that much of his audience will disagree with him, and suggest that he consider what outcome he wants. He's certainly free to say that much of his audience isn't Christian. That's likely to have consequences, but there are plenty of people who think that Church would be better off with only people who believe the right thing. It's a rational position, which you can find Scriptural support for (though I don't think Paul advocated it).

    I would suggest however that in a situation where there's widespread disagreement, it might make sense to consider an approach that acknowledges that and tries to live with it.

    By the way I found information on his church. Views about homosexuality among members of the Church of the Nazarene by religious group - Religion in America: U.S. Religious Data, Demographics and Statistics. 40% of members of the Nazarenes said homosexuality should be accepted. Be aware however that answers can depend upon wording of the question. The actual statement is "Homosexuality should be accepted by society."

    They have occasionally asked whether homosexuality is a sin, but the data is older and doesn't apply to specific churches. The most recent I could find is 2013. White evangelicals (sorry, that's their category) said 78 / 14 that it was. I don't have it by age, nor do I have it more recently. At the same time 30% of evangelicals said it should be accepted. Since that number is higher now, I'd assume that the 14% would be as well. I originally cited gay marriage because that normally gets a more negative response than "should be accepted." For "should be accepted, it's now 53% among younger evangelicals. How would say it's not sin? I'd be inclined to guess 25%.

    The Nazarene number for "should be accepted" is slightly higher than the overall evangelical number, so somewhere between 1/4 and 1/3 of his class may well disagree with him. That would seem like enough that he should think about the implications. Particularly if his co-leader is one of them.
     
  7. civilwarbuff

    civilwarbuff Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I love it when an atheist tries to use a "Biblical study" to support their position (from the pdf.)
    "No doubt Paul was unaware of the distinction between sexual orientation, over which one has apparently very little choice, and sexual behavior, over which one does."
    No doubt this 'reverend' is not a believer that the Bible is the Word of God.......can't even give this a 'nice try'.......
     
  8. summerville

    summerville Well-Known Member

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    Did you actually say I tried the best I could to explain how God is loving but that homosexuality was a demonic manifestation and lie.

    What qualifies you as a "youth leader"?
     
  9. friend of

    friend of Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Oh, such as? Genuinely curious. I can't recall any atm
     
  10. redleghunter

    redleghunter Thank You Jesus! Supporter

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    @Rawtheran forgot to add this to my first post to you:

    Did you speak with your senior pastor or elders before attempting this in youth group? I’m sure your church has a stance on this.

    I know all church groups to include small groups when reaching sensitive topics seek out the pastor and elders when coming up with a lesson plan.
     
  11. fwGod

    fwGod Well-Known Member

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    How do you expect the homosexual to change their mind while they are still a sinner? They wouldn't see your attempts to point out that it's wrong as anything else but condemnation and quickly turn away.

    Look at the way that the father of the prodigal son said nothing about his wrongdoings when he returned. Look at the way that Jesus refused to stone the woman who'd been caught in adultery. Look at the way that God didn't expect you to cold turkey never do your sins again at the moment that you received Jesus as your Savior.

    To expect the homosexual to quit doing that as a requisite for salvation is a works gospel. But we are to be saved by grace, still lingering sins and all.

    All that is required is to present the gospel with the full love of God.. in the ideal result they will accept Jesus as their Savior. Then let Him in their hearts do the convicting.. and also provide the power through God's word and the Holy Spirit to be transformed to a straight lifestyle.

    Either that.. or get a former homosexual to preach the gospel to the homosexual.
     
  12. hedrick

    hedrick Senior Veteran Supporter

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    Walter Wink was not an atheist. False attacks on the character of someone you disagree with normally weaken your case. Actually even true attacks on motivation are considered a logical fallacy, but false ones are self-defeating.

    Or was this attacked aimed at JackRT?
     
  13. CharismaticLady

    CharismaticLady Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Explain that we were all born bent toward sin. Unlawful sex of any type outside the confines of the marriage of one woman and one man is against God's laws. But not only sex:

    1 Timothy 1:
    9 realizing the fact that law is not made for a righteous person, but for those who are lawless and rebellious, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers 10 and immoral men and homosexuals and kidnappers and liars and perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound teaching, 11 according to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, with which I have been entrusted.

    The problem with sexual sins between same sex partners or between unmarried men and women is that it feels like love and feels natural, but it is not of God. But whether between same sex, or fornication between heterosexuals, it is no different in God's eyes than a murderer, thief or even a liar. Even the sin of pride, God hates.

    But, at the same time, God loves us so much that He sent His own Son to free us from these and all sin. We may struggle with the impulses, but by turning to Jesus He will give us strength to resist temptations.
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2020
  14. civilwarbuff

    civilwarbuff Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Did I say he was an atheist? Maybe go back and re-read what I wrote before diving in head first. I stated
    There are many people in this world who claim to be 'christian' but don't accept the Bible as the Word of God.....
     
  15. Rawtheran

    Rawtheran Lightmaker For Christ

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    Heck off, I came on here to get correction and spiritual support so I can learn from what happened today, not to be put down by a jerk like you.
     
  16. Rawtheran

    Rawtheran Lightmaker For Christ

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    We made it clear about what our church doctrine was concerning the belief in homosexuality and marriage. We did not seek out the church board or the Pastor mainly because this topic was something that just came up today out of the blue when a woman brought her girlfriend to the youth group
     
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  17. civilwarbuff

    civilwarbuff Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I would be curious as to why she thought that was OK in a christian church. Either she was very new to Christianity or biblical teachings were not communicated well. BTW, I spent 15 years in a Nazarene church so I am quite familiar with their very conservative outlook on things....
     
  18. Sketcher

    Sketcher Born Imperishable

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    That would have been helpful to include in the original post. That post made it sound like you gave a prepared sermon that fell completely flat instead.
     
  19. Rawtheran

    Rawtheran Lightmaker For Christ

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    The girl who has been attending our church is really new to christianity and ironically her "girlfriend" is Catholic so she very much understood where church doctrine stood on homosexuality. And to be honest the Church of the Nazarene isn't really as conservative as it used to be at least not among members and Pastors who are 20-50.
     
  20. Rawtheran

    Rawtheran Lightmaker For Christ

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    No it was not a sermon it was a discussion. Truthfully no one was prepared because what happened today was a real shocker
     
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