How do I explain that Homosexuality is Wrong While Reassuring Others Of God's Love?

[Tolworth John]

Hello everyone I am in need of seasoned advice. Today in Youth Group in which I help lead we went over the topic of Homosexuality and what the Bible had to say about it as well as what the official doctrine of the Universal church had to say. Needless to say I don't feel that the other Youth Leaders and myself did a very good job of explaining homosexuality and why is it considered wrong. Some like myself were after of offending others and kinda had this mentality that well it's 2020 and it's ok in the west to be in a homosexual relationship. I tried the best I could to explain how God is loving but that homosexuality was a demonic manifestation and lie. At the end of it they still believed that love was love. Do any of you have any experience witnessing to homosexuals or how do we stand firm on the truth but present it in love?

The bottom line is you don't give your opinion on anything but only what God says.
Suggested method.
Ok homosexuality is it right is it wrong? What are your views?
You have a range of views, pick the loudest speaker and ask. ' Why do you believe that?'
Let him talk and ask 'What evidence do you have for this view?'
( This is your basic tactic on all questions )
Now you go to the Bible genesis and get them to read about Adam and Eve. Then go to the ten commandments and get them to read them, then to Paul in Romans And Corinthians about marriage (not Romans 2 )
You are showing them that there is only one form of sexual activity and that is within marriage of a man and a women, all other forms of sexual activity are all equally wrong.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Are you saying that a homosexual cannot be saved?

The churches are filled with people who have not been called by God. They are referred to as "tares". I don't know what God's judgment will be on them, but the metaphor has them 'gathered and burned'.

 

[nolidad]

Hello everyone I am in need of seasoned advice. Today in Youth Group in which I help lead we went over the topic of Homosexuality and what the Bible had to say about it as well as what the official doctrine of the Universal church had to say. Needless to say I don't feel that the other Youth Leaders and myself did a very good job of explaining homosexuality and why is it considered wrong. Some like myself were after of offending others and kinda had this mentality that well it's 2020 and it's ok in the west to be in a homosexual relationship. I tried the best I could to explain how God is loving but that homosexuality was a demonic manifestation and lie. At the end of it they still believed that love was love. Do any of you have any experience witnessing to homosexuals or how do we stand firm on the truth but present it in love?

The way I have tried to explain this over the years is thus:

God does love the sinner, that is without doubt!
God hates sin, that is also without doubt?
So if a person decides to attach themselves to a sin (not repent and acknowledge it is sin), then they are forced to experience the consequences that sin brings in this life and in the eternal life!

Trusting christ causes us to agree with god that things like homosexuality is sin. and that in turn should lead to a turning from that sin!

Hope this helps.

 

[JacksBratt]

The churches are filled with people who have not been called by God. They are referred to as "tares". I don't know what God's judgment will be on them, but the metaphor has them 'gathered and burned'.

Thanks for you honest thoughts.

I am of the opinion that there will be thieves, cheats, liars, gossips, gluttons, adulterers, and homosexuals in heaven.

Christ forgives all sins.... None is too great. Only God knows ones heart and the secret demons they face throughout this life...

Heaven will be full of sinners.... Forgiven sinners... I'll be one of them.

 

[dougangel]

Thanks for you honest thoughts.

I am of the opinion that there will be thieves, cheats, liars, gossips, gluttons, adulterers, and homosexuals in heaven.

Christ forgives all sins.... None is too great. Only God knows ones heart and the secret demons they face throughout this life...

Heaven will be full of sinners.... Forgiven sinners... I'll be one of them.

People not obeying Christ commands and not teaching the truth won't inherit the kingdom of heaven.

John 14:14-16 New International Version (NIV)
14 You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it.

Jesus Promises the Holy Spirit

15 “If you love me, keep my commands. 16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever—

1 Corinthians 6:9
Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites,

1 Timothy 1:9-11 New International Version (NIV)

9 We also know that the law is made not for the righteous but for lawbreakers and rebels, the ungodly and sinful, the unholy and irreligious, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers, 10 for the sexually immoral, for those practicing homosexuality, for slave traders and liars and perjurers—and for whatever else is contrary to the sound doctrine 11 that conforms to the gospel concerning the glory of the blessed God, which he entrusted to me.

 

[GenemZ]

The key to understanding why God declares its an "abomination," is to be discovered by understanding homosexuality's root cause.

Superficial, opinionated _ "following popular opinion," sheep - need not apply.

What was the root cause?

 

[Roderick Spode]

Hello everyone I am in need of seasoned advice. Today in Youth Group in which I help lead we went over the topic of Homosexuality and what the Bible had to say about it as well as what the official doctrine of the Universal church had to say. Needless to say I don't feel that the other Youth Leaders and myself did a very good job of explaining homosexuality and why is it considered wrong. Some like myself were after of offending others and kinda had this mentality that well it's 2020 and it's ok in the west to be in a homosexual relationship. I tried the best I could to explain how God is loving but that homosexuality was a demonic manifestation and lie. At
the end of it they still believed that love was love. Do any of you have any experience witnessing to homosexuals or how do we stand firm on the truth but present it in love?

I think first off it is important to realize that some of the offenses taken are justified. I think ministers say things over the pulpit they really shouldn't say. Sometimes the heterosexual alpha-male pride comes out in some ministers, and they say things like "how gross" that's
out of line, and offends a number of people. In other words, catch phrases like "God created
Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve" should really be passe at this point. It may have seemed clever and cute for awhile, but we don't really need to say things like this in the
21st century.

Secondly, some argue that homosexuals cannot change their preference, and that the programs aimed at curing homosexuality rarely if ever work. This might be so because it's one thing to pray for healing of something unwanted (unpleasurable) like any disease, and pray for the healing (or removal) of something pleasurable. Imagine yourself loving ice cream, and praying that your desire for ice cream be replaced by spinach. The problem is that you remember how pleasurable ice cream is, and have no taste for spinach. This may result in many a backsliding when walking by an ice cream stand.

Thirdly, we live in a pluralistic secular society, which is why we have various laws favoring gay rights. So it's really up to an individual how they treat the homosexuality issue. I think it's better to pose questions to Christians who consider gay relationships rather than attempt to lay down any scriptural laws. I say this because some Christians interpret the Bible as not condemning homosexuality.

One question might be, since God commands us to do everything in love, would it really be an act of love having sexual relations with another person of the same sex if in fact God condemns it? In this case they are not just bringing a judgment on themselves, but to another person they claim they love.

Another I think very important question might be, do they consider homosexuality a lifestyle? If they do, like many people seem to, there's a big problem. In God's kingdom, not even heterosexuality is to be a lifestyle. In a conventional marriage, if the wife or husband becomes unable to participate in sexual activity (like due to an accident or acquired illness)
the ultimate act of love is for the healthy partner to remain celibate. Even our secular marriage vows indicate this. So, if a person in the church wants to marry one of the same sex, can they remain celibate as an act of love for their same sex partner if they become sexually incapable? If they consider homosexuality a lifestyle, they obviously wouldn't be able to do that.

Another question might be the subject of adoption. Studies reveal that the presence of both a male and female adult are important in the development of a child. While some adopted
children have showed great maturity in accepting their same sex parents, is it really
ultimately fair for the child? Or is it more important that the same sex couple experience raising children?

 

[GenemZ]

What does God call homosexuality an abomination?

"Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination." Lev 18:22

I once attended a study given by a rabbi. He said the Hebrew of Lev 18:22, indicated that God views homosexuality as something loathsome. Why?

 

[Rawtheran]

Oh I didn't put you down. I asked how you were qualified to be a youth pastor.

I'm not a Youth Pastor, I just help lead a Sunday School teens class on Sunday mornings. I would like to become a Youth Pastor someday though.

 

[coffee4u]

One of his arguments is that for something to be sinful, it has to be harmful; that if there's no harm, there can be nothing wrong with it.

I disagree with that.

If God calls something sinful it is sinful regardless if it harms anyone.

I fully believe all sin is harmful even if the harm is only to the one doing it. Harm can be emotional, spiritual, physical or mental. It would be exceedingly difficult to detect how someone has been harmed if it isn't visible, but this doesn't mean they were not harmed.

God says that sexual sins -any sexual sins a person practices (because homosexuality is just one of them) is a sin against your own body. So my guess is the harm comes to the person doing it.
1 Corinthians 6:18
Flee from sexual immorality. All other sins a person commits are outside the body, but whoever sins sexually, sins against their own body.

 

[Rawtheran]

I suspect redleghunter suggested that you talk to a pastor to get advice on how to address the issue pastorally, not because of uncertainty on the doctrine. I don’t want to sound unsympathetic, but from your account it sounds like you didn’t educate anyone, but you did give the impression that they aren't welcome. Is that what you wanted as the outcome?

When you see someone that you think might be doing something wrong, immediately having a public discussion is going to feel like a public attack on them. It also robs you of time to think about what approach you want to take.

What is your goal? The traditional approach is church discipline. That starts in private, with an attempt to understand the situation and the people. In this case, since it's unlikely that you'll convert a lesbian to being straight, that means she leaves. Is that what you want? It may well be that it is. But at least you owe it to her to use the traditional approach to discipline, which starts in private. Indeed it starts with listening.

Hedrick my friend you blew this post completely out of proportion but once again this is my fault because well I didn't provide a lot of context. Firstly, the two girls who are Bisexual and in a committed relationship are exploring Christianity right now so they have not given their lives over to Christ. As a Youth Leader I am in now way going to discipline two girls who are only 15 and are just trying to figure life out plus they don't even sincerely know what they are doing is against God or is really sinful. This is also what made explaining this really hard because not only were we unprepared for this but we avoided saying certain things because we did want to make these girls feel welcomed. That was the whole point of me trying to create this thread. And actually at the very end of the sunday school meeting I pulled each of the teens aside and told them that even if they disagreed with what was said God still loved them and no matter what they would always be welcome. They then proceeded to give me a big group hug lol.

 

[hedrick]

Another I think very important question might be, do they consider homosexuality a lifestyle? If they do, like many people seem to, there's a big problem.

To my knowledge the term "the homosexual lifestyle" comes entirely from those opposed to gay relationships. There are all kinds of problems with it, but two of the more serious: (1) it implies a style one adopts, while gays generally believe homosexual orientation is not chosen (though there are complexities here), (2) there's not a single "homosexual lifestyle" any more than there's a single "heterosexual lifestyle."

 

[Anthony2019]

I would say carry on reassuring them of the love of Christ. Let them see your words, actions and how you live your Christian life.
Let God be God. He alone is able to touch people's hearts and He is the One who will bring about changes in their lives, not as we wish them to be, but as He sees fit.

 

[Roderick Spode]

To my knowledge the term "the homosexual lifestyle" comes entirely from those opposed to gay relationships. There are all kinds of problems with it, but two of the more serious: (1) it implies a style one adopts, while gays generally believe homosexual orientation is not chosen (though there are complexities here), (2) there's not a single "homosexual lifestyle" any more than there's a single "heterosexual lifestyle."

Usually the term used I think is "gay lifestyle".

I don't think the term is relegated to gay bar hoppers.....but I could be wrong. But even still, my point was can a gay person, or gay Christian person remain celibate if their partner somehow becomes sexually inactive? Or, would their sexual preference demand that they find a same sex friend with benefits? If the latter, then I personally refer to that as a lifestyle. Just not to the extent of someone who frequents gay bars looking for one night stands.

 

[Jermayn]

Hello everyone I am in need of seasoned advice. Today in Youth Group in which I help lead we went over the topic of Homosexuality and what the Bible had to say about it as well as what the official doctrine of the Universal church had to say. Needless to say I don't feel that the other Youth Leaders and myself did a very good job of explaining homosexuality and why is it considered wrong. Some like myself were afraid of offending others and the others kinda had this mentality that well it's 2020 and it's ok in the west to be in a homosexual relationship. I tried the best I could to explain how God is loving but that homosexuality was a demonic manifestation and lie. At the end of it they still believed that love was love. Do any of you have any experience witnessing to homosexuals or how do we stand firm on the truth but present it in love?

It’s one thing to believe in God’s word and question why he gave a particular commandment for understanding, and another to require an explanation that they agree with before they believe. This is more of an issue with their faith in God than it is with homosexuality.

 

[hedrick]

Usually the term used I think is "gay lifestyle".

I don't think the term is relegated to gay bar hoppers.....but I could be wrong. But even still, my point was can a gay person, or gay Christian person remain celibate if their partner somehow becomes sexually inactive? Or, would their sexual preference demand that they find a same sex friend with benefits? If the latter, then I personally refer to that as a lifestyle. Just not to the extent of someone who frequents gay bars looking for one night stands.

I would think the answer would be the same as with heterosexuals. It would depend upon the individual and the situation.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Hello everyone I am in need of seasoned advice. Today in Youth Group in which I help lead we went over the topic of Homosexuality and what the Bible had to say about it as well as what the official doctrine of the Universal church had to say. Needless to say I don't feel that the other Youth Leaders and myself did a very good job of explaining homosexuality and why is it considered wrong. Some like myself were afraid of offending others and the others kinda had this mentality that well it's 2020 and it's ok in the west to be in a homosexual relationship. I tried the best I could to explain how God is loving but that homosexuality was a demonic manifestation and lie. At the end of it they still believed that love was love. Do any of you have any experience witnessing to homosexuals or how do we stand firm on the truth but present it in love?

Did you ever witness / testify of Jesus to a thief ? A thief who day and night thinks of stealing ?
Can they keep on stealing and thinking of stealing and still be headed to heaven ? (no. look in the book of Revelation : in heaven is a list , or two lists, of what is not found in heaven - no thieves there. No one greedy. No idolators. No perverts. No adulterors .... )

If anyone lives in darkness, in commiting sin daily, and is unrepentant, 1st John shows that the truth is not in them (if they claim to be a follower of Jesus, born again).

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

First off, The Youth Leaders as well as yourself should have never broached the question if you yourselves did not know these answers.




Why did you right off the bat place Homosexuality to your Youth Group in the category of Demonic Manifestation, (Activity).

You hobbled yourself with another subject you then have to prove.

Actually, it may be good and right, though it does not seem always to be.
Youth leaders, and others in Ekklesia, who don't know the answer(s), who can openly seek and keep seeking the answers with the youth included, might be a good and good idea -
as Yahweh the Heavenly Father REVEALS salvation and everything concerning salvation TO LITTLE CHILDREN.
Yahweh reveals the demonic origin and/or design of sin, no matter what the sin is, in society.

 

[Salvadore]

I don't think gay relationships are wrong. But I'm assuming you're a conservative Christian who does. At that point what you say depends upon your theology. I would hope what you'd say is that it's wrong, but it's no different from other sins, and God saves sinners.

Christians have created a lot of damage, both to individuals and to the Christian witness, by (1) treating homosexuality as the unforgiveable sin, (2) demanding that Christians rid themselves of certain sins (with homosexuality seeming to be the only example) in order to be saved, (3) and false claims that if you have enough faith you'll be "cured" of homosexuality.

Given what we know of the beliefs of younger Christians, you might even say that quite likely some people in the room disagree with your position, but you hope that won't create a barrier between you. Of course that depends upon whether you personally are willing to accept disagreement on this topic. Lots of conservative Christians consider this the one issue where no disagreement is permitted.

What if you are wrong? I would not want to mislead anyone. Of course,we all sin. But usually we try to give up our sin. There are things I want to do but I won't because I think it would be sin. I think the Christian life is very difficult. Self-control is not my strong point!

 

[com7fy8]

Some like myself were afraid of offending others

Well, we might not be able to kick our fear until God makes us clear how He desires for us to handle this.

What was the root cause?

I think of Romans 1:18-32. This seems to say that because people refused God, He let go of control of them, so much-so that their lusts took them over and dragged them into stuff which has nothing to do with tenderly caring for one another while reproducing children who know how to love.

There is a love problem, how a man can not tenderly care for and appreciate sharing with a lady of God's love. If a man can not affectionately and intimately enjoy a lady of Jesus, his problem has nothing to do with physical sexual stuff. It is a love problem; and both heterosexual husbands and gay men have this problem.

In sin, any of us can have dominating and controlling drives which can take us over to go after pleasure. We can be desperate for pleasure, because deep down inside we are not being satisfied by God's love. And without the almighty immunity of God's love we can be easy prey for selfish pleasure seeking, plus fear and worry and unforgiveness about not getting the pleasures we are so desperate to use to make ourselves feel good.

And in Romans 1:18-32 we have how people were not "thankful". They did not appreciate and enjoy God, but instead they were about worshiping things of His creation > going after pleasure which they could use to try to make themselves feel good . . . instead of personally and sensitively sharing with God. So, God let them go . . . so they could discover where their pleasure seeking could take them.

Their preference, then, is not really for sexual reproduction, but for the pleasure they treasure. And sexual sensation can be rather easy to get, not necessarily costing money, not needing much intelligence to get it. And ones desperate for some treasure pleasure can use sexual sensations in different ways. This is a way of loneliness, trying to use pleasure to give us company . . . merely using people, maybe, in order to get it; and so we miss out on love which would deeply bless us with God and one another as His family.

Indeed, then, heterosexuals also can be dragged and driven by their so-called sexual drives which have nothing to do with reproducing children of God's family caring and sharing love.

Sexual stuff can be an idol, then, and church culture people, then, can be very aghast against gays, since gays are not going along with how sex for some number is a kind of an idol they worship. And ones so criticizing gays can themselves can be very into using each other for pleasure, and they can easily, then, break down in arguing and complaining as they struggle for the pleasure and control they treasure > and their horrible example can ruin their children so they do not know how to love > they are not reproducing children holy in God's gentle and humble and pleasantly quiet love.

Lust in marriage, then, can keep people weak for pleasure, so also they stay weak for suffering pain in many ways, and can help produce America's fifty-percent or so divorce rate among ones claiming to be Christians.

So, I see why our Apostle Paul says our marital relating needs to be "not in passion of lust" > in 1 Thessalonians 4:5.