How do I Choose?

[Occams Barber]

For the sake of a discussion, imagine that I (a confirmed atheist) have recently come to the conclusion that the Christian God probably does exist. At this stage of my theoretical conversion I have accepted the Nicene Creed as a broad statement of Christian belief.

The problem I’m now faced with is how to put this new belief into practical effect and in expanding my very basic knowledge and understanding of Christian doctrine. A large part of this has to do with choosing a specific religious group/church/denomination to help flesh out my religious practice and provide instruction in a more specific set of beliefs.


Given that there are hundreds of competing Christian denominations/churches/doctrines;

How do I go about making a choice?

Based on opinions I’ve seen expressed in CF, it seems that the right choice may be critical for my salvation and could determine if I become a ‘real’ Christian or not. While, for me, this is a hypothetical question, I am sure that it‘s a real issue faced by many new Christians.


Please Note:

1. The SoP for this Forum asks that you refrain from debating theological differences. I am not asking for an advertorial on your particular Christian doctrine. I am seeking an understanding of how I might go about deciding between competing claims.

2. Christian discussion is often packed with Christian jargon/stock phrases and vague Bible quotes which can be impenetrable for those of us on the outside. I’d be grateful if you could please try to stick to plain English. At the very least, explain your terminology.​

OB

 

[Apologetic_Warrior]

When I was a baby in the faith, I could not give an order of salvation, I suppose I did not even give consideration to an order. At the time I did not realize that God had already performed His work of regeneration in my heart and mind, before I cried out to Him in repentance and made a conscience decision to follow Christ. To even repent, God granted saving faith, replacing the heart of stone, the dead faith in self. I wasn't looking for God, I didn't care about the Bible or want much of anything to do with religion, but God found me, and changed and rearranged my desires, set them on Him. I hope this meets the jargon free request.

 

[Shadow]

For the sake of a discussion, imagine that I (a confirmed atheist) have recently come to the conclusion that the Christian God probably does exist. At this stage of my theoretical conversion I have accepted the Nicene Creed as a broad statement of Christian belief.

The problem I’m now faced with is how to put this new belief into practical effect and in expanding my very basic knowledge and understanding of Christian doctrine. A large part of this has to do with choosing a specific religious group/church/denomination to help flesh out my religious practice and provide instruction in a more specific set of beliefs.


Given that there are hundreds of competing Christian denominations/churches/doctrines;

How do I go about making a choice?

Based on opinions I’ve seen expressed in CF, it seems that the right choice may be critical for my salvation and could determine if I become a ‘real’ Christian or not. While, for me, this is a hypothetical question, I am sure that it‘s a real issue faced by many new Christians.


Please Note:

1. The SoP for this Forum asks that you refrain from debating theological differences. I am not asking for an advertorial on your particular Christian doctrine. I am seeking an understanding of how I might go about deciding between competing claims.

2. Christian discussion is often packed with Christian jargon/stock phrases and vague Bible quotes which can be impenetrable for those of us on the outside. I’d be grateful if you could please try to stick to plain English. At the very least, explain your terminology.​

OB

Speaking as a non-christian this may not be you're looking for but the best thing to do is probably to trust your own judgement. It is not necessarily the case that your choice will be a final one, so trial and error could work as a way to approach your beliefs. You just have to trust yourself to make the right choice eventually, or at least a better one as you get closer to the truth even if there are going to be some mistakes along the way. It would seem to be a necessary part of personal (and arguably spiritual) growth.

 

[Occams Barber]

When I was a baby in the faith, I could not give an order of salvation, I suppose I did not even give consideration to an order. At the time I did not realize that God had already performed His work of regeneration in my heart and mind, before I cried out to Him in repentance and made a conscience decision to follow Christ. To even repent, God granted saving faith, replacing the heart of stone, the dead faith in self. I wasn't looking for God, I didn't care about the Bible or want much of anything to do with religion, but God found me, and changed and rearranged my desires, set them on Him. I hope this meets the jargon free request.

I'm sorry AW but your response is choked with incomprehensible jargon and I have no idea what you mean. I've highlighted the more obvious stuff. Unfortunately it's a classic example of the vagueness I often see associated with Christian belief.

This is also a personal testimony about something vaguely connected to your beliefs. It does not explain how I might go about choosing a particular church/group/denomination nor does it explain how you made your particular choice.
OB

 

[Cat Loaf You]

For the sake of a discussion, imagine that I (a confirmed atheist) have recently come to the conclusion that the Christian God probably does exist. At this stage of my theoretical conversion I have accepted the Nicene Creed as a broad statement of Christian belief.

The problem I’m now faced with is how to put this new belief into practical effect and in expanding my very basic knowledge and understanding of Christian doctrine. A large part of this has to do with choosing a specific religious group/church/denomination to help flesh out my religious practice and provide instruction in a more specific set of beliefs.


Given that there are hundreds of competing Christian denominations/churches/doctrines;

How do I go about making a choice?

Based on opinions I’ve seen expressed in CF, it seems that the right choice may be critical for my salvation and could determine if I become a ‘real’ Christian or not. While, for me, this is a hypothetical question, I am sure that it‘s a real issue faced by many new Christians.


Please Note:

1. The SoP for this Forum asks that you refrain from debating theological differences. I am not asking for an advertorial on your particular Christian doctrine. I am seeking an understanding of how I might go about deciding between competing claims.

2. Christian discussion is often packed with Christian jargon/stock phrases and vague Bible quotes which can be impenetrable for those of us on the outside. I’d be grateful if you could please try to stick to plain English. At the very least, explain your terminology.​

OB

Hey , i come here to represent Biblical Christianity .
First of all to be Christian you don't have to attend any church or any denominations . In nowdays world about 99% of denominations are literally preaching doctrines of devils and wicked stuff which are contradicting Bible .

You don't have to kneel , stand up and do disco dance in church to be saved . You don't have to give money to some priest or pastor to be saved . I would even say that you don't have to love God to be saved . Jesus said if you love me keep my commandments not that you need to keep commandments to be saved .

Salvation literally costs you nothing . It's free gift of God , because Just God had to provide salvation for everybody . It's like if you put mouse under bucket , who would be responsible for leaving it here to die , you or that mouse because it did not manage to get out ?

Same goes for people , God put us here knowing that we will sin and earth will be cursed and we will die , so he had to provide a way out or else it would be his foult just like you and that mouse .

Ephesians 2:8-9

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

God literally sit on his throne right now , and because he is Holy and is Just , he can't let you in if you don't ask him to . Just ask him so he has ability to let you in .

Romans 10:13
For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.


You don't have to kneel or lay face down to floor , but if you want to do that . Now go and call on the name of YAHWEH and you will be saved . Ask him in your words "YAHWEH if you exist please show yourself to me , forgive me my sins against you because I don't want to go to hell ".

And then watch what will happen in your life .


If you have something which is not allowing you to do that like you believe in theory of evolution which is keeping you from believing God , i can present to you math proof of it not working ( that's why it's called Theory after 150 years because it's not proven ) .

 

[Norbert L]

For the sake of a discussion, imagine that I (a confirmed atheist) have recently come to the conclusion that the Christian God probably does exist. At this stage of my theoretical conversion I have accepted the Nicene Creed as a broad statement of Christian belief.

The problem I’m now faced with is how to put this new belief into practical effect and in expanding my very basic knowledge and understanding of Christian doctrine. A large part of this has to do with choosing a specific religious group/church/denomination to help flesh out my religious practice and provide instruction in a more specific set of beliefs.


Given that there are hundreds of competing Christian denominations/churches/doctrines;

How do I go about making a choice?

Based on opinions I’ve seen expressed in CF, it seems that the right choice may be critical for my salvation and could determine if I become a ‘real’ Christian or not. While, for me, this is a hypothetical question, I am sure that it‘s a real issue faced by many new Christians.


Please Note:

1. The SoP for this Forum asks that you refrain from debating theological differences. I am not asking for an advertorial on your particular Christian doctrine. I am seeking an understanding of how I might go about deciding between competing claims.

2. Christian discussion is often packed with Christian jargon/stock phrases and vague Bible quotes which can be impenetrable for those of us on the outside. I’d be grateful if you could please try to stick to plain English. At the very least, explain your terminology.​

OB

Here's an analysis about all the different denominations and choosing one of them, given by a scholar who gets invited to speak at various church organizations and is employed by one of the major bible software companies in the world. He starts by making an interesting point from our perspective, there are naturally going to be some problems with interpretation because we are not omniscient.

 

[Paidiske]

When I was contemplating a similar sort of issue (I believe, but where should I belong?) for me it came down to a couple of things, at least as an initial sorting exercise:

- Does this group hold any major beliefs with which I fundamentally cannot agree?
- Does this group give me the opportunity to get involved, participate, learn and grow?

I was willing to try groups to which the answers were no and yes, respectively, and found that while I've worshipped in different denominations and participated with different groups/organisations over time, I settled fairly easily into somewhere that was able to be "home."

 

[Radagast]

For the sake of a discussion, imagine that I (a confirmed atheist) have recently come to the conclusion that the Christian God probably does exist. At this stage of my theoretical conversion I have accepted the Nicene Creed as a broad statement of Christian belief.

Your hypothetical corresponds more or less exactly to having read and agreed with Mere Christianity by C. S. Lewis. So I'll just quote the ending of that. It seems to exactly answer your question (bearing in mind that "are these doctrines true?" is with reference to the Bible):

I hope no reader will suppose that "mere" Christianity is here put forward as an alternative to the creeds of the existing communions--as if a man could adopt it in preference to Congregationalism or Greek Orthodoxy or anything else. It is more like a hall out of which doors open into several rooms. If I can bring anyone into that hall I shall have done what I attempted. But it is in the rooms, not in the hall, that there are fires and chairs and meals. The hall is a place to wait in, a place from which to try the various doors, not a place to live in. For that purpose the worst of the rooms (whichever that may be) is, I think, preferable.

It is true that some people may find they have to wait in the hall for a considerable time, while others feel certain almost at once which door they must knock at. I do not know why there is this difference, but I am sure God keeps no one waiting unless He sees that it is good for him to wait. When you do get into your room you will find that the long wait has done you some kind of good which you would not have had otherwise. But you must regard it as waiting, not as camping. You must keep on praying for light: and, of course, even in the hall, you must begin trying to obey the rules which are common to the whole house. And above all you must be asking which door is the true one; not which pleases you best by its paint and panelling.

In plain language, the question should never be: "Do I like that kind of service?" but "Are these doctrines true: Is holiness here? Does my conscience move me towards this? Is my reluctance to knock at this door due to my pride, or my mere taste, or my personal dislike of this particular door-keeper?"

When you have reached your own room, be kind to those who have chosen different doors and to those who are still in the hall. If they are wrong they need your prayers all the more; and if they are your enemies, then you are under orders to pray for them. That is one of the rules common to the whole house.

 

[Occams Barber]

Speaking as a non-christian this may not be you're looking for but the best thing to do is probably to trust your own judgement. It is not necessarily the case that your choice will be a final one, so trial and error could work as a way to approach your beliefs. You just have to trust yourself to make the right choice eventually, or at least a better one as you get closer to the truth even if there are going to be some mistakes along the way. It would seem to be a necessary part of personal (and arguably spiritual) growth.

This approach would suggest that any choice is the right choice i.e.. it will bring me closer to the truth (whatever that means).

Many Christians on this Forum would argue that there are right and wrong choices. Are they right or wrong? What if I choose a set of doctrines at odds with all the others? Am I right or wrong?

Hey , i come here to represent Biblical Christianity .
First of all to be Christian you don't have to attend any church or any denominations . In nowdays world about 99% of denominations are literally preaching doctrines of devils and wicked stuff which are contradicting Bible .

You don't have to kneel , stand up and do disco dance in church to be saved .

Salvation literally costs you nothing . It's free gift of God .

Ephesians 2:8-9

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

God literally sit on his throne right now , and because he is Holy and is Just , he can't let you in if you don't ask him to . Just ask him so he has ability to let you in .

Romans 10:13
For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.


You don't have to kneel or lay face down to floor , but if you want to do that . Now go and call on the name of YAHWEH and you will be saved . Ask him in your words "YAHWEH if you exist please show yourself to me , forgive me my sins against you because I don't want to go to hell ".

And then watch what will happen in your life .


If you have something which is not allowing you to do that like you believe in theory of evolution which is keeping you from believing God , i can present to you math proof of it not working ( that's why it's called Theory after 150 years because it's not proven ) .

Cat
You tell me I don't need a doctrine and then proceed to lay out what I should believe. In other words your telling me what you believe. It may be an informal belief but it's still a doctrine. I specifically asked you not to do that.

I asked how I should go about choosing a doctrine/church/etc. You've also committed the cardinal sin of quoting slabs of Bible with no explanation.
OB

 

[Occams Barber]

Your hypothetical corresponds more or less exactly to having read and agreed with Mere Christianity by C. S. Lewis. So I'll just quote the ending of that. It seems to exactly answer your question (bearing in mind that "are these doctrines true?" is with reference to the Bible):

I hope no reader will suppose that "mere" Christianity is here put forward as an alternative to the creeds of the existing communions--as if a man could adopt it in preference to Congregationalism or Greek Orthodoxy or anything else. It is more like a hall out of which doors open into several rooms. If I can bring anyone into that hall I shall have done what I attempted. But it is in the rooms, not in the hall, that there are fires and chairs and meals. The hall is a place to wait in, a place from which to try the various doors, not a place to live in. For that purpose the worst of the rooms (whichever that may be) is, I think, preferable.

It is true that some people may find they have to wait in the hall for a considerable time, while others feel certain almost at once which door they must knock at. I do not know why there is this difference, but I am sure God keeps no one waiting unless He sees that it is good for him to wait. When you do get into your room you will find that the long wait has done you some kind of good which you would not have had otherwise. But you must regard it as waiting, not as camping. You must keep on praying for light: and, of course, even in the hall, you must begin trying to obey the rules which are common to the whole house. And above all you must be asking which door is the true one; not which pleases you best by its paint and panelling.

In plain language, the question should never be: "Do I like that kind of service?" but "Are these doctrines true: Is holiness here? Does my conscience move me towards this? Is my reluctance to knock at this door due to my pride, or my mere taste, or my personal dislike of this particular door-keeper?"

When you have reached your own room, be kind to those who have chosen different doors and to those who are still in the hall. If they are wrong they need your prayers all the more; and if they are your enemies, then you are under orders to pray for them. That is one of the rules common to the whole house.

In other words all choices are correct. You can't all be right and many of your fellow Christians would agree.
OB

 

[Radagast]

In other words all choices are correct. You can't all be right and many of your fellow Christians would agree.
OB

Can you please read the quote again? Nowhere does it say that "all choices are correct." It says quite explicitly that there are better and worse choices.

In fact, C. S. Lewis does exactly what you said you wanted: he refuses to say which door is best, but he gives (in plain English) a methodology for choosing.

Or was your O.P. a cover for something else?

 

[Apologetic_Warrior]

I'm sorry AW but your response is choked with incomprehensible jargon and I have no idea what you mean. I've highlighted the more obvious stuff. Unfortunately it's a classic example of the vagueness I often see associated with Christian belief.

This is also a personal testimony about something vaguely connected to your beliefs. It does not explain how I might go about choosing a particular church/group/denomination nor does it explain how you made your particular choice.
OB

Forget about choosing a particular church/group/denomination, none of them can save a soul. Salvation is in Christ alone. You've assumed the God of Christianity, with that comes certain beliefs about the attributes of God and beliefs concerning Christ. To be clear (perhaps not) my choice did not save me, I chose Christ because He first chose me. The kind of faith that saves, is a gift from God (granted, imparted by God). Salvation can be understood by a child, and yet be studied by an adult for their entire life without fully comprehending every detail. There is no way I can explain a person into the faith, first it requires a divine initiative, regeneration, to be "born again", spiritual rebirth. The process where God does surgery, wherein He removes the heart of stone and replaces it with flesh. Sorry this response was likely not helpful in the manner you're seeking, but I am not looking for debate or arguments, just trying to be helpful on a non-technical scale without loads of terminology that is common in theological discussions. Read the Bible, start with one of the Gospels...that's really the best advice I could give.

 

[Paidiske]

OB, it might be helpful to distinguish between different orders or levels of wrongness.

On the one hand, there are what I might call first-order issues: does this group believe in Jesus' incarnation, ministry, death, resurrection and ascension? Does it believe in God as Trinity? If they don't, they're outside the boundaries of what most would consider Christian, and they're not in the house that Lewis was writing about.

Then there are what we might call second-order issues; important, but not issues which are about salvation. Can women lead and teach, how do we integrate science and faith, what's the relationship between Scripture and tradition; those are examples of second-order issues. Finding the right door, with regard to these issues, might be important for your growth in faith and your well-being as a person, but it's not going to be a salvation issue.

Then there are what we might call "indifferent" matters; matters of preference but not actually going to impede your relationship with God. What robes should clergy wear (if any), should we forbid musical instruments or embrace Christian rock, should I wear a cross as jewellery; matters which go much more to personality and taste than to morality or salvation. Here one might well asks which door "feels" best to you personally.

And so on. Not all differences are of the same magnitude.

 

[Occams Barber]

- Does this group hold any major beliefs with which I fundamentally cannot agree?
- Does this group give me the opportunity to get involved, participate, learn and grow?

Does this group hold any major beliefs with which I fundamentally cannot agree?
Since I'm (theoretically) new to Christianity how do I know what to agree with. If for instances I disagree with the Bible on issues connected with SSM/gender etc. many here would tell me I'm not a true Christian.
Does this group give me the opportunity to get involved, participate, learn and grow?
These characteristics are commendable but do they demonstrate the rightness of the doctrine. I could find another church with the same doctrine but lacking the social amenity you describe. My concern as a (potential) Christian is have I chosen the 'right' path.
OB

 

[Apologetic_Warrior]

Since I'm (theoretically) new to Christianity how do I know what to agree with. If for instances I disagree with the Bible on issues connected with SSM/gender etc. many here would tell me I'm not a true Christian.

And the can O' worms is opened, n'joy peeps.

 

[Paidiske]

Does this group hold any major beliefs with which I fundamentally cannot agree?
Since I'm (theoretically) new to Christianity how do I know what to agree with. If for instances I disagree with the Bible on issues connected with SSM/gender etc. many here would tell me I'm not a true Christian.

I found, as a newbie looking into it all, that I was able to work out what the deal breakers were for me fairly easily. (Actually the biggest at the time was the claim of infallibility. I could not then, and still cannot, accept any claim by a human or group of humans to being infallible; and the requirement that I accept that made some decisions for me, really).

Does this group give me the opportunity to get involved, participate, learn and grow?

These characteristics are commendable but do they demonstrate the rightness of the doctrine. I could find another church with the same doctrine but lacking the social amenity you describe. My concern as a (potential) Christian is have I chosen the 'right' path.
OB

And I'm suggesting that experiential learning will help you figure that out. That is, you have to actually try being part of a Christian community to learn and grow in order to be able to reflect on your experience and discern the rightness or completeness of some things.

For what it's worth, I don't think there is a perfect church that has everything right and sorted out. I think each person needs to find the one that's going to support that person's growth as a person and as a Christian, and the answer won't be the same for all of us.

 

[Cat Loaf You]

This approach would suggest that any choice is the right choice i.e.. it will bring me closer to the truth (whatever that means).

Many Christians on this Forum would argue that there are right and wrong choices. Are they right or wrong? What if I choose a set of doctrines at odds with all the others? Am I right or wrong?


Cat
You tell me I don't need a doctrine and then proceed to lay out what I should believe. In other words your telling me what you believe. It may be an informal belief but it's still a doctrine. I specifically asked you not to do that.

I asked how I should go about choosing a doctrine/church/etc. You've also committed the cardinal sin of quoting slabs of Bible with no explanation.
OB

Choosing not to choose is still a choice.
Just saying that if you want to be religious person it will not get you into heaven , might aswell stay atheist to save time for pleasure.

 

[Occams Barber]

OB, it might be helpful to distinguish between different orders or levels of wrongness.

On the one hand, there are what I might call first-order issues: does this group believe in Jesus' incarnation, ministry, death, resurrection and ascension? Does it believe in God as Trinity? If they don't, they're outside the boundaries of what most would consider Christian, and they're not in the house that Lewis was writing about.

Then there are what we might call second-order issues; important, but not issues which are about salvation. Can women lead and teach, how do we integrate science and faith, what's the relationship between Scripture and tradition; those are examples of second-order issues. Finding the right door, with regard to these issues, might be important for your growth in faith and your well-being as a person, but it's not going to be a salvation issue.

Then there are what we might call "indifferent" matters; matters of preference but not actually going to impede your relationship with God. What robes should clergy wear (if any), should we forbid musical instruments or embrace Christian rock, should I wear a cross as jewellery; matters which go much more to personality and taste than to morality or salvation. Here one might well asks which door "feels" best to you personally.

And so on. Not all differences are of the same magnitude.

This may be true for you but many Christians here would disagree. For some biblical literalness is a critical issue or, you're not communicating with God unless you're speaking in tongues. Some would have me ignore the world and see it as an evil place. Others would commend me too be involved with my society. Some believe that Catholicism is the correct religion. Others will argue that it isn't even Christianity.

How do I decide who's right? Remember its my soul hanging in the balance.
OB

 

[Paidiske]

Well, I'm not sure I can be much help to you beyond describing how I approached it.

Naturally, of course, if you live anywhere near me, you should come to my parish, where you will be most welcome, able to contribute of your talents and time to something worthwhile, and appreciate my brilliance.

 

[Occams Barber]

Choosing not to choose is still a choice.
Just saying that if you want to be religious person it will not get you into heaven , might aswell stay atheist to save time for pleasure.

See this is the problem. You are telling me that even if I follow the tenets of a particular (Christian) religion I still won't get into heaven. And you still haven't told me how to choose the right set of tenets.
OB