How do I Choose?

[Occams Barber]

Well, I'm not sure I can be much help to you beyond describing how I approached it.

Naturally, of course, if you live anywhere near me, you should come to my parish, where you will be most welcome, able to contribute of your talents and time to something worthwhile, and appreciate my brilliance.

You have my respect as one of the more rational (in my terms) Christians on the board. Unfortunately you live (I think) in wet, cold and foggy Melbourne.

I've lived in there and I much prefer the hot and sticky north of NSW.
OB

 

[Paidiske]

Yes, Melbourne it is. Too bad; it could have been a beautiful friendship.

 

[SeraTaru]

For the sake of a discussion, imagine that I (a confirmed atheist) have recently come to the conclusion that the Christian God probably does exist. At this stage of my theoretical conversion I have accepted the Nicene Creed as a broad statement of Christian belief.

The problem I’m now faced with is how to put this new belief into practical effect and in expanding my very basic knowledge and understanding of Christian doctrine. A large part of this has to do with choosing a specific religious group/church/denomination to help flesh out my religious practice and provide instruction in a more specific set of beliefs.


Given that there are hundreds of competing Christian denominations/churches/doctrines;

How do I go about making a choice?

Based on opinions I’ve seen expressed in CF, it seems that the right choice may be critical for my salvation and could determine if I become a ‘real’ Christian or not. While, for me, this is a hypothetical question, I am sure that it‘s a real issue faced by many new Christians.


Please Note:

1. The SoP for this Forum asks that you refrain from debating theological differences. I am not asking for an advertorial on your particular Christian doctrine. I am seeking an understanding of how I might go about deciding between competing claims.

2. Christian discussion is often packed with Christian jargon/stock phrases and vague Bible quotes which can be impenetrable for those of us on the outside. I’d be grateful if you could please try to stick to plain English. At the very least, explain your terminology.​

OB

Great question and a great journey! I admire your open-ness.

Let me throw my 2 cents into the mix :

Talk to Jesus. Don't use fancy words, just tell Him how you feel. Ask Him to lead you and guide you.

Tell Him that if He leads you to truth, then you'll jump in with both feet and follow Him.

That's it. Nothing more, nothing less. Don't sweat it, don't worry about it.

I can 100% with absolute confidence say that your prayer will be answered. The Creator that loves you so much will literally move heaven and earth to bring you to the place He wants where you can start a relationship with Him. He WILL bring along the right people and events that you need.

I'd encourage you as well to get a bible and take a few mins a day to read it. I remember one night years ago picking up an old bible and reading about how the religious leaders told Jesus they basically didn't like Him hanging around with drunks and sinners. That struck with me - I literally thought "He can't be that bad if that's what His friends were like". A few days later I became a follower of Christ.

Read the gospel of John, or Mark - those are good places that tell about Christ's life and show what he was like and how he lived out his life.

These are huge steps you're taking - rest assured with COMPLETE peace that Jesus is already on your case - he has the landing lights on, the runways cleared, there's no fire truck in sight and He's about to wave you in for a safe landing

 

[Basil the Great]

I would recommend visiting several different churches, in addition to doing some research, as has been suggested already. However, I would not worry about it all that much. Your salvation depends on your relationship with God and not which denomination you choose, though some will claim that it is more likely that you will go to Heaven if you choose their Church.

 

[Occams Barber]

Yes, Melbourne it is. Too bad; it could have been a beautiful friendship.

Your hypothetical corresponds more or less exactly to having read and agreed with Mere Christianity by C. S. Lewis. So I'll just quote the ending of that. It seems to exactly answer your question (bearing in mind that "are these doctrines true?" is with reference to the Bible):

I hope no reader will suppose that "mere" Christianity is here put forward as an alternative to the creeds of the existing communions--as if a man could adopt it in preference to Congregationalism or Greek Orthodoxy or anything else. It is more like a hall out of which doors open into several rooms. If I can bring anyone into that hall I shall have done what I attempted. But it is in the rooms, not in the hall, that there are fires and chairs and meals. The hall is a place to wait in, a place from which to try the various doors, not a place to live in. For that purpose the worst of the rooms (whichever that may be) is, I think, preferable.

It is true that some people may find they have to wait in the hall for a considerable time, while others feel certain almost at once which door they must knock at. I do not know why there is this difference, but I am sure God keeps no one waiting unless He sees that it is good for him to wait. When you do get into your room you will find that the long wait has done you some kind of good which you would not have had otherwise. But you must regard it as waiting, not as camping. You must keep on praying for light: and, of course, even in the hall, you must begin trying to obey the rules which are common to the whole house. And above all you must be asking which door is the true one; not which pleases you best by its paint and panelling.

In plain language, the question should never be: "Do I like that kind of service?" but "Are these doctrines true: Is holiness here? Does my conscience move me towards this? Is my reluctance to knock at this door due to my pride, or my mere taste, or my personal dislike of this particular door-keeper?"

When you have reached your own room, be kind to those who have chosen different doors and to those who are still in the hall. If they are wrong they need your prayers all the more; and if they are your enemies, then you are under orders to pray for them. That is one of the rules common to the whole house.

Radagast

I was a little short in my earlier reply and I think the Godly CS Lewis might deserve a little more attention.

If you read the bits you've highlighted these, to me, are vague jargon. How do I tell if "Holiness is here" and what is this door I'm knocking at? What are these "house rules and who is in the hall?

I've read a little Lewis and frankly find him overrated although I am aware he's the darling of more liberal Christians. Basically what you've highlighted is a series of metaphors. Poetic perhaps but not particularly informative.
OB

 

[Occams Barber]

I would recommend visiting several different churches, in addition to doing some research, as has been suggested already. However, I would not worry about it all that much. Your salvation depends on your relationship with God and not which denomination you choose, though some will claim that it is more likely that you will go to Heaven if you choose their Church.

Thanks Basil. I've highlighted the problem I see in your reply. As a (theoretical) new Christian how can I tell if you're right or if they are? I prefer your version but who can say that you're right?

My relationship with God will need to be expressed in some way. Should I be speaking in tongues, taking communion or adoring icons? Which is the path to salvation?
OB

 

[Cat Loaf You]

If I study the bible and develop my own doctrines wouldn't they be "man made" (by me)?

If you've developed your own interpretation of the Bible isn't that interpretation"man made' (by you)?
OB

There is no own interpretations . Just read what it says . There are so many denominations because people make up doctrines that are not here.

I see what you really asking , why Christianity and not Islam or Hindu ? If there is God why is he in this and not the other . It's simple , in every religion in this world you have to pay.

In Hinduism - you have to pay offering and pray
In Islam -you have to pay ,pray and be obedient
In Buddhism - you try to not want anything so you don't have to pay , but untill then you pay with meditiation
In Judaism - you have to pay by keeping law , sacrifices and obedience with prayer
In Catholicism- you have to pay with sacraments , mass , obedience to law and doctrines of Catholic Church
Paganism - you have to do offering , sometimes human offerings to please gods
Christian Baptism - most of them you have to pay by baptism
Christian Presbyteranism - you pay by speaking in tongues


In every religion you have to pay , and every Christian denomination have something to make you pay.
Only in Biblical Christianity you don't have to pay for anything because Jesus paid in full for you on cross with his blood.
That's why it's distinct from other religions/denominations.

Moreover i would never believe in any word of Bible if it was not proven , i don't believe in Qu'ran or in Mormon's , because they don't have any proof that God write them.

Only Bible has proof of prophecy that this is from God , he is using his atribute - that he is outside of time so you know that it's from him. Here is list of fullfilled prophecy (Bible is about 30% prophecy ).You will not find any prophecy in any religion apart from Biblical Christianity.

AccordingtotheScriptures.org :: 353 Prophecies Fulfilled in Jesus Christ

If you are scientist you can estimate using math the probability of somebody fullfilling them , even if you don't believe some of them are 700-2000 years before Christ , all of them were translated from Hebrew to Greek in LXX before Christ came to fullfill them so there is no excuse .

If you don't know probability this guy did it for you.

There are 3 options really :
a) Christ is Lord , you call him and do what he says
b) Christ is Lier , you know that God exist but say that he is not Christ so you move on to other religions
c) Christ is Lunatic , you stop wasting your time on religion and move on


But since you are seeking God by attempting this forum then there is something inside of you which drag you here , you want to choose option B because you still want to have charge over your own life instead of being Atheist , but you want to douse that burn inside of you by attending church and being religious .

God said be Hot or Cold , so you either believe in him and do what he says or you don't and stay atheist , you choose lukewarm to not feel guilty but it will profit you nothing.

Love you

 

[Occams Barber]

Great question and a great journey! I admire your open-ness.

Let me throw my 2 cents into the mix :

Talk to Jesus. Don't use fancy words, just tell Him how you feel. Ask Him to lead you and guide you.

Tell Him that if He leads you to truth, then you'll jump in with both feet and follow Him.

That's it. Nothing more, nothing less. Don't sweat it, don't worry about it.

I can 100% with absolute confidence say that your prayer will be answered. The Creator that loves you so much will literally move heaven and earth to bring you to the place He wants where you can start a relationship with Him. He WILL bring along the right people and events that you need.

I'd encourage you as well to get a bible and take a few mins a day to read it. I remember one night years ago picking up an old bible and reading about how the religious leaders told Jesus they basically didn't like Him hanging around with drunks and sinners. That struck with me - I literally thought "He can't be that bad if that's what His friends were like". A few days later I became a follower of Christ.

Read the gospel of John, or Mark - those are good places that tell about Christ's life and show what he was like and how he lived out his life.

These are huge steps you're taking - rest assured with COMPLETE peace that Jesus is already on your case - he has the landing lights on, the runways cleared, there's no fire truck in sight and He's about to wave you in for a safe landing

You're suggesting I open the Bible and work it out for myself yet there are others here who will tell me that understanding the Bible takes years of study and a good understanding of context. What little I've read I find fairly vague and not particularly useful.

Are they right (the Bible studiers) or are you? How do I know if you're right?

OB

 

[A_Thinker]

For the sake of a discussion, imagine that I (a confirmed atheist) have recently come to the conclusion that the Christian God probably does exist. At this stage of my theoretical conversion I have accepted the Nicene Creed as a broad statement of Christian belief.

The problem I’m now faced with is how to put this new belief into practical effect and in expanding my very basic knowledge and understanding of Christian doctrine. A large part of this has to do with choosing a specific religious group/church/denomination to help flesh out my religious practice and provide instruction in a more specific set of beliefs.


Given that there are hundreds of competing Christian denominations/churches/doctrines;

How do I go about making a choice?

Based on opinions I’ve seen expressed in CF, it seems that the right choice may be critical for my salvation and could determine if I become a ‘real’ Christian or not. While, for me, this is a hypothetical question, I am sure that it‘s a real issue faced by many new Christians.


Please Note:

1. The SoP for this Forum asks that you refrain from debating theological differences. I am not asking for an advertorial on your particular Christian doctrine. I am seeking an understanding of how I might go about deciding between competing claims.

2. Christian discussion is often packed with Christian jargon/stock phrases and vague Bible quotes which can be impenetrable for those of us on the outside. I’d be grateful if you could please try to stick to plain English. At the very least, explain your terminology.​

OB

Allow God/circumstances to GUIDE you to what your heart is craving.

Most christians are shepherded into their CHOSEN groups via circumstance (i.e. where they live, to whom they are related, what group provided that initial commitment, etc.). If you are a fairly independent person (i.e. from other people), you will be drawn to where your heart leads. It might not be a direct flight (i.e. there might be some stopovers), ... but you will ultimately at the place/room (from C. S. Lewis' thesis) where your heart is at home.

We all have our human biases, ... and these, in many cases, form the bases of the DIFFERENCES between christian groups. As we grow in LOVE/EMPATHY, these will fade ... and we will all come out into the hall (i.e. from C. S. Lewis' portrait) together.

I do believe that, if you are drawn to God, ... that He will draw you to Him, ... and that you will reach your final destination.

from Matthew chapter 7 ...

7 Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. 8 For everyone who asks receives; he who seeks finds; and to him who knocks, the door will be opened .…

Jeremiah 29

13 And you will seek Me and find Me, when you search for Me with all your heart.

 

[Basil the Great]

Thanks Basil. I've highlighted the problem I see in your reply. As a (theoretical) new Christian how can I tell if you're right or if they are? I prefer your version but who can say that you're right?

My relationship with God will need to be expressed in some way. Should I be speaking in tongues, taking communion or adoring icons? Which is the path to salvation?
OB

While some claim that it is more likely you will go to Heaven if you join their Church, very few would ever say that such is a necessity in order to be saved. Hence, again, I would not worry that much about which branch of Christianity you choose, especially at first. You can always switch later, once you have had a chance to do more research.

 

[SeraTaru]

You're suggesting I open the Bible and work it out for myself yet there are others here who will tell me that understanding the Bible takes years of study and a good understanding of context. What little I've read I find fairly vague and not particularly useful.

Are they right (the Bible studiers) or are you? How do I know if you're right?

OB

Not at all,

I'm suggesting that you ask Christ to guide you into the path He has for you and that He will do that.

I suggested that it would be helpful to read a little about the life of Christ.

If anyone tells me that it takes years of study as a requirement to salvation, then I'll punch them in the face. I'll pray for them afterwards of course and ask for forgiveness, but the punch comes first

But let me ask you a simple question before 1000 people give you 1000 opinions and your head spins -

IF it's the case that your Creator exists, and IF it's the case that said Creator wants you discover Him, then isn't the best place to go to ask for help is to said Creator?

Opinions are valuable. There is wisdom in discussion. But this is very simple and doesn't need debate.

Ask Christ to get you to the place and point where you have an encounter with Him.

Jeremiah 29 v 13 says "You will seek me and find me, when you seek me with all your heart."

That's a promise. From God. If it's lies then we're all damned anyway because God isn't the person He claims to be. So take God at His promise to you - seek him and you will find him.

 

[Goatee]

My advice would be to do some research on the roots of the early church. See where it all started.

Look at early writings, especially the early church fathers.

Pray about it if you can. Ask God to guide you.

God bless you

 

[Petros2015]

At this stage of my theoretical conversion I have accepted the Nicene Creed as a broad statement of Christian belief.

Ok. That's a starting point.

Given that there are hundreds of competing Christian denominations/churches/doctrines; How do I go about making a choice?

There were not always hundreds of competing denominations, and in those that exist some assign variations of importance to the Creed. Follow history back, until you get to the point where that Nicene Creed is created. See what you find.

 

[ToBeLoved]

Many Christians on this Forum would argue that there are right and wrong choices. Are they right or wrong? What if I choose a set of doctrines at odds with all the others? Am I right or wrong?

OB

This forum is a place where Christians can come and discuss theology and differences in beliefs
And understandings. That is not a bad thing

 

[paul1149]

I agree with @Red Economist's post. I also think you're making this hypothetical more difficult and more critical than it should be. And that is because you approach it on a purely intellectual level. Christianity is about the person and work of Christ. All the details are about conforming ourselves to them more fully.

And the fundamental dynamic of Christianity is faith. In faith, you take a step to believe. In faith, you then seek to grow in knowledge and understanding, and to be fully reconciled to God's will for your life. It's all by faith. Heb 11.6 says it is impossible to please God, but by faith that He is God and He is good.

If you're serious about God, you take it one step at a time, one day at a time, just as He counsels in the Sermon (Mt 5-7). Here on Earth we are not given perfect comprehensive Light. We "see through a glass darkly". But we are given enough light to survive, grow and be fruitful in "all things pertaining to life and godliness".

So as one newly pursuing Christianity, you look for a church where you are fed. You run some basic doctrinal filters on it. You look for the love Jesus speaks of. You may make a mistake, but if you're following Christ, not man, you will see it and correct it in due season. And the Lord can certainly show you when it's time to move on to something different.

 

[Tolworth John]

For the sake of a discussion, imagine that I (a confirmed atheist) have recently come to the conclusion that the Christian God probably does exist. At this stage of my theoretical conversion I have accepted the Nicene Creed as a broad statement of Christian belief.

The problem I’m now faced with is how to put this new belief into practical effect and in expanding my very basic knowledge and understanding of Christian doctrine. A large part of this has to do with choosing a specific religious group/church/denomination to help flesh out my religious practice and provide instruction in a more specific set of beliefs.


Given that there are hundreds of competing Christian denominations/churches/doctrines;

How do I go about making a choice?

Based on opinions I’ve seen expressed in CF, it seems that the right choice may be critical for my salvation and could determine if I become a ‘real’ Christian or not. While, for me, this is a hypothetical question, I am sure that it‘s a real issue faced by many new Christians.


Please Note:

1. The SoP for this Forum asks that you refrain from debating theological differences. I am not asking for an advertorial on your particular Christian doctrine. I am seeking an understanding of how I might go about deciding between competing claims.

2. Christian discussion is often packed with Christian jargon/stock phrases and vague Bible quotes which can be impenetrable for those of us on the outside. I’d be grateful if you could please try to stick to plain English. At the very least, explain your terminology.​

OB

Most people come to faith through talking with a Christian or by attending a church event. So thelogical option would be to attend the same church as the person one was talking to, or the church that put on the event.

 

[Cat Loaf You]

This approach would suggest that any choice is the right choice i.e.. it will bring me closer to the truth (whatever that means).

Many Christians on this Forum would argue that there are right and wrong choices. Are they right or wrong? What if I choose a set of doctrines at odds with all the others? Am I right or wrong?


Cat
You tell me I don't need a doctrine and then proceed to lay out what I should believe. In other words your telling me what you believe. It may be an informal belief but it's still a doctrine. I specifically asked you not to do that.

I asked how I should go about choosing a doctrine/church/etc. You've also committed the cardinal sin of quoting slabs of Bible with no explanation.
OB

I don't understand you really . All you do is talking about choosing but as Atheist you must believe in big bang , and therefore you have no free will because everything was decided at that moment and your brain which is made out of these atoms make you do certain things , so you can't choose and be Atheist at same time , also there is no right or wrong when you are Atheist , moral values do not exist according to that point of view .

Everything will eventually die to 1st and 2nd Thermodynamic law so why would you care anyway

 

[JoeP222w]

For the sake of a discussion, imagine that I (a confirmed atheist) have recently come to the conclusion that the Christian God probably does exist. At this stage of my theoretical conversion I have accepted the Nicene Creed as a broad statement of Christian belief.

The problem I’m now faced with is how to put this new belief into practical effect and in expanding my very basic knowledge and understanding of Christian doctrine. A large part of this has to do with choosing a specific religious group/church/denomination to help flesh out my religious practice and provide instruction in a more specific set of beliefs.


Given that there are hundreds of competing Christian denominations/churches/doctrines;

How do I go about making a choice?

Based on opinions I’ve seen expressed in CF, it seems that the right choice may be critical for my salvation and could determine if I become a ‘real’ Christian or not. While, for me, this is a hypothetical question, I am sure that it‘s a real issue faced by many new Christians.


Please Note:

1. The SoP for this Forum asks that you refrain from debating theological differences. I am not asking for an advertorial on your particular Christian doctrine. I am seeking an understanding of how I might go about deciding between competing claims.

2. Christian discussion is often packed with Christian jargon/stock phrases and vague Bible quotes which can be impenetrable for those of us on the outside. I’d be grateful if you could please try to stick to plain English. At the very least, explain your terminology.​

OB

Have you come to understand the holiness of God and the magnitude of your sins against Him and have you repented of your sin (turn from them, forsaken them) and are you trusting in Jesus Christ?

If you believe you have chosen God in and of yourself (i.e. by your own efforts) or gone through a "theoretical" conversion, you have not yet fully grasped the truth of God. The Nicene Creed, while helpful, is not inerrant or the defining authority for the Christian. The Bible is the ultimate authority for the Christian.

If you have repented of your sin and trusting in Jesus Christ for your salvation, your foundation needs to be in the Bible to start with, since it is the inerrant and all sufficient word of God. Then seek a church that believes the Bible is the word of God and seeks to be obedient to Him. Do not focus necessarily on Denomination. It is not wrong to visit several different churches and have conversations with the associated Pastors or Elders.

Denomination is not critical for your salvation, and anyone who tells you that is giving you false teaching. There were no Denominations in the early church. Denomination has nothing to do with your salvation.

 

[Albion]

Occams Barber,

I think that the first thing might be to decide (from researching Scripture, Christian history, and etc.) whether or not your salvation does indeed depend upon which church you join. If the answer is NO, which is what most Christian churches would say, I would think that the choice of denominations would be close to immaterial (if, as you said, the issue is salvation and not something else in addition).

 

[A_Thinker]

There were not always hundreds of competing denominations, and in those that exist some assign variations of importance to the Creed. Follow history back, until you get to the point where that Nicene Creed is created. See what you find.

And there ARE NOT hundreds of competing denominations.

Most denominations consider themselves to be FLAVORS of the SAME BASIC CAKE.

As to those groups which claim to be "the one and only", ... I would counsel avoidance ...