How do Creationists explain vestigal organs?

[mzungu]

As I said, teenagers always dream of superpowers.
You've not documented one professional opinion on the subject.
Childish fantasies don't count.

SUPERPOWERS? All the advantageous traits I mentioned that animals have are REAL! Are you denying this fact

 

[Loudmouth]

Actually we did have tails in early development of embryo.

Developmental atavisms are another strong piece of evidence that points to evolution.

Vestigial arguments are basically arguments of ignorance just like junk DNA idea.

No, it is based on positive evidence. The human coccyx does not support a tail. It does in other primates. It is vestigial because it has lost its ancestral function as evidenced by other primate species.

Evolutionists loved to claim junk DNA was evidence against design yet the more we learn the more the junk DNA myth crumbles. Some of the so called junk DNA is important during development of the embryo while other only is express in certain cells.

Expressed is not the same as important. The extensor coccygis muscle is expressed between two fused joints in the coccyx. It serves no important function. Heck, people are born without an appendix and they go through life with no problems whatsoever. More importantly, you can remove millions of bases from the mouse genome and the mice are indistinguishable from mice that still have that DNA:

Megabase deletions of gene deserts result in viable m... [Nature. 2004] - PubMed - NCBI

Going from a single cell into a man is very complex and we got so much more to learn exactly this take place.

Can you name a single anti-evolution creationist who is doing research on this problem?

Evolutionist first comes to the conclusion that something is vestigial or junk then tries their best to make the data fit their view.

We start with the data and then arrive at the conclusion that the features is vestigial. We observe that the coccyx is used to support a tail in other primates, and then observe that the homologous structure in humans no longer has this function. Therefore, it is vestigial.

P.S it's just like "why do men have nipples?" Since our knowledge is so limited we don't know males have nipples due to efficiency which is a good thing. Evolutionist dogmatically claims it's because of evolution.

It is only creationists who are having a tough time understanding what the function of a nipple is.

 

[Loudmouth]

As I said, teenagers always dream of superpowers.
You've not documented one professional opinion on the subject.
Childish fantasies don't count.

Dogs have a better sense of smell than we do. Do they have superpowers?

Different species can grow back limbs. Do they have superpowers?

Eagles have better vision than we do. Do they have superpowers?

Perhaps you should familiarize yourself with reality before accusing others of fantasies.

 

[SkyWriting]

Given that they are a source of disease (ingrown toenails and the like), why would we have them?

That's not a supportable position. Not one (other) person in the world thinks toe nails are a source of disease. You may be right, but the odds are very low.

Millions of animals loose limbs and toes and chunks of flesh and survive. Millions of children had their tonsils removed at a certain age because the ignorant thought there was no reason and it was a "source of infection". Turns out it was a source of fighting infection. Doh!

"Your toenails and fingernails protect the tissues of your toes and fingers. They are made up of layers of a hardened protein called keratin, which is also in your hair and skin. Your nails' health can be a clue to your overall health. Healthy nails are usually smooth and consistent in color. Specific types of nail discoloration and changes in growth rate can signal various lung, heart, kidney and liver diseases, as well as diabetes and anemia. White spots and vertical ridges are harmless.

Nail problems that sometimes require treatment include bacterial and fungal infections, ingrown nails, tumors and warts. Keeping nails clean, dry and trimmed can help you avoid some problems. Do not remove the cuticle, which can cause infection." Nail Diseases: MedlinePlus

Did you catch that? Do NOT remove the cuticle! Bad things happen if you mess with the design.

 

[Eliu]

Hi!

It's really simple.
There are no vestigial organs.
"Vestigial" means "unuseful".
Any "vestigial" organ has a specific function.
Any "vestigial" organ is "useful".
Any "vestigial" is not "vestigial".

Coccyx: try to walk without it!
Moving ears: "vestigial" as vochal cords.

Dinosaur fossils in different layers:
Layers are... just layers. Different layer positioning means different transport by waves during the Flood or different height for running away from waves.

Bacteria don't "evolve" anything.
Evolution is appereance of new organic funcional complex structures.
Scientifically, this doesn't happen. Scientifically, evolution doesn't happen.
But variation and adaptation happen (we can observe them!). Bacteria become resistan to antibiotics modifying something ALREADY existing, like modifying an already existing protein.
Interesting to note... resistant "evolved" bacteria who had survived, put in "normal" condition with "normal" bacteria of the same type, are weaker than the starting bacteria! This means not only there were not evolution, but also there was a LOSS of function!

Physical traits are carried down from generation to generation. It happens normally from "parents" to "children", inside the limit of the "kind".

God bless!

 

[SkyWriting]

Dogs have a better sense of smell than we do. Do they have superpowers?

Different species can grow back limbs. Do they have superpowers?

#62. Lizard

Eagles have better vision than we do. Do they have superpowers?

The Blue Eagle

Perhaps you should familiarize yourself with reality before accusing others of fantasies.

You've not documented one professional opinion on the subject.
Saturday morning cartoons are not professional opinions.

The fantasy of having animal super powers is as ancient as mankind.
(51 pages)
A
Achimi
Apedemak
Apis (god)
Apsat (mythology)
Ares Lusitani
Aristaeus
Asar
B
Babi (mythology)
Baco (god)
Bata (god)
Bir Kuar
C
Cernunnos
Chelone (Greek mythology)
Coyote in mythology
E
Ebisu (mythology)
Enten
F
Faunus
G
Ganesha
H
Hanuman
Hermes
Heryshaf
Hinkon
Howler Monkey Gods
I
Inuus
K
Kamapua'a
Kangiten
Kumugwe
Kutkh
L
Lahar (god)
M
Maahes
Mars (mythology)
Matunos
Moccus
Mullo (god)
N
Narasimha
Neptune (mythology)
P
Pan (god)
Pashupati
Poseidon
Pushan
R
Rudiobus
S
Sandon (god)
Sumugan
T
Tarvos Trigaranus
Tū-te-wehiwehi
U
Urcuchillay
V
Varaha
Varahi
Veles (god)
Verminus
W
Wepwawet
Category:Animal gods - Wikipedia

 

[SkyWriting]

SUPERPOWERS? All the advantageous traits I mentioned that animals have are REAL! Are you denying this fact

You have not documented even one ability considered by professionals
to be better than human abilities.

Saturday cartoons don't count.

 

[CabVet]

You have not documented even one ability considered by professionals
to be better than human abilities.

Saturday cartoons don't count.

Is this for real? Or are you being sarcastic?

Dogs have 220 million olfactory receptors in their noses, we have 5 million: ACES Publications : THE DOG'S SENSE OF SMELL : UNP-0066

In a human, the fovea has 200,000 cones per millimeter, giving us wonderful vision. In the central fovea of an eagle there are about a MILLION cones per millimeter: Journey North Bald Eagles

A Cheetah can sprint at 70 mph, fastest human 27 mph: Speed of a Cheetah

 

[Skaloop]

Hi!

It's really simple.
There are no vestigial organs.
"Vestigial" means "unuseful".

No, it doesn't.

Any "vestigial" organ has a specific function.
Any "vestigial" organ is "useful".
Any "vestigial" is not "vestigial".

Not necessarily. Vestigial things can be useful, just not in the way they were initially.

Coccyx: try to walk without it!

True, it's necessary for walking. But surely some other design of the coccyx would be better than fused vertebrae and muscles without joints to work on.

Moving ears: "vestigial" as vochal cords.

I can wiggle my ears. It does not serve any purpose (other than a party trick), let alone anything as complex and important as the vocal chords.

Dinosaur fossils in different layers:
Layers are... just layers. Different layer positioning means different transport by waves during the Flood or different height for running away from waves.

Interesting how the raging turbulent waters of a flood were able to sort things according to the patterns expected from evolution. Especially considering something like dinosaurs, which varied greatly in size and speed. Yet not a single one of them outran any hominids?

Bacteria don't "evolve" anything.
Evolution is appereance of new organic funcional complex structures.
Scientifically, this doesn't happen. Scientifically, evolution doesn't happen.
But variation and adaptation happen (we can observe them!). Bacteria become resistan to antibiotics modifying something ALREADY existing, like modifying an already existing protein.
Interesting to note... resistant "evolved" bacteria who had survived, put in "normal" condition with "normal" bacteria of the same type, are weaker than the starting bacteria! This means not only there were not evolution, but also there was a LOSS of function!

No, it's a change of function. Whales evolved from land mammals due to changes in function. Throw whales back onto land, and of course they'd die, because they are not able to function on land.

Physical traits are carried down from generation to generation. It happens normally from "parents" to "children", inside the limit of the "kind".

That first part is correct. Traits are passed down. Some traits are more beneficial than others, and in a struggle for survival, those traits will eventually spread. That's evolution. So you do accept evolution.

But then you go mentioning "kind." Please define "kind."

 

[SkyWriting]

Is this for real? Or are you being sarcastic?
Dogs have 220 million olfactory receptors in their noses, we have 5 million: ACES Publications : THE DOG'S SENSE OF SMELL : UNP-0066
In a human, the fovea has 200,000 cones per millimeter, giving us wonderful vision. In the central fovea of an eagle there are about a MILLION cones per millimeter: Journey North Bald Eagles
A Cheetah can sprint at 70 mph, fastest human 27 mph: Speed of a Cheetah

Have you shown even one such "advantageous trait" found in humans? No, you didn't. You are comparing the abilities of animals that live shorter lifespans or have far lower mental abilities to humans. And you realize that all attempts to enhance these abilities have led to shorter lifespans, decreased mental abilities, and/or lower fertility, right? You are willing to trade off?

And while there are tens of thousands of DNA diseases or DNA mutations that cause diminished lifespans, mental abilities, and fertility,
not one has been documented to improve the human condition without reducing the biological function in another area.
In other words, there are no sum positive mutations.
All Science Fiction fantasy aside.

 

[Tiberius]

Tail support can't be a primary function because we don't have tails.
And primary and secondary are all in the mind anyway.
It it's needed, it's needed.

So then a Manx cat's lack of tails means a cat's coccyx isn't primarily a tail support?

 

[SkyWriting]

So then a Manx cat's lack of tails means a cat's coccyx isn't primarily a tail support?

Use of the word "primary" is purely a human construct.

 

[CabVet]

Have you shown even one such "advantageous trait" found in humans? No, you didn't. You are comparing the abilities of animals that live shorter lifespans or have far lower mental abilities to humans.

Nice change of subject. You said, and I can quote, that no animals had abilities the were better than humans. I showed you three, want more? The only ability that humans have that is better than other animals is brain capacity, absolutely nothing else.

I would however like to see any evidence to back this claim:

And you realize that all attempts to enhance these abilities have led to shorter lifespans, decreased mental abilities, and/or lower fertility, right? You are willing to trade off?

But I am 100% sure that as usual instead of providing evidence you will just change the subject again.

 

[CabVet]

Use of the word "primary" is purely a human construct.

No, what you really mean is that anything that goes against your opinions are irrelevant human constructs.

 

[Eliu]

@Skaalop
Hello!
-“Not useful in the way they were initially” means actually “useful in another way”, so… “unuseful”!
-Coccyx possesses that design. Confronting a number of different human positions and the relative position of each part, will show that the design of coccyx is “very good”. And gluteus muscles, for their shape, function and power, need obviously a “blocked” structure for their work. How walking and standing up with a “mobile” coccyx? There should be a great loss of stability. Coccyx is really “specific”.
-For the ears muscles… you are forgetting the movement (compression effect) for removing wax from ears (for, we know, wax itself can’t come out from the ears), also pushing out water from the ear after diving, etc…
-“Turbulent waters” while, during layer formations, slow retiring?
And you say “in according to evolution”. But evolution made its schemes in looking at layers. So, you’re making circular reasoning.
If “hominids” pictured dinosaurs in ancient times, it means something.
And they had not to worry for dinosaurs or be afraid of them: they were vegetarian. Also the T-Rex was vegetarian. No danger for men.
-Bacteria don’t gain anything I antibiotic resistant. They just modify something already existing. This is not evolution (for definition of ”evolution”).
Who saw whales evolving from land mammals? We cannot make a movie from 2-3 photograms.
-Traits are “passed”, not “gained”. Evolution is gaining of complex and functional biological structures, in living beings. That doesn’t happen. So evolution doesn’t happen.
-Biblical “kind” is called “baramin”. It means a line of animals which possess a degree of variability who can breed inside it (as tigers and lions). While corruption is going forward, anyway, some lines inside the baramin can lost (because life is losing, not earning, what is observed is the opposite of evolution) ability to interbreed.
God Bless You!

 

[Tiberius]

Use of the word "primary" is purely a human construct.

You go back and forth around this. Do you ever get dizzy?

 

[Eight Foot Manchild]

Reading through this thread, it looks like the answer to the initial question is 'extremely poorly'. Not a bit surprising.

 

[SkyWriting]

Yeah, wouldn't it make much more sense from a design stand point if we had no toes to begin with?

No. They help us run, walk and sense the pressure of the ground on our feet.
And the nails provide the ultimate pressure feedback mechanism with the nails providing a fulcrum into the nerves at the base of the nail. It turns the entire toe into a sensitive feedback mechanism with a padded sensor.

 

[SkyWriting]

Nice change of subject. You said, and I can quote, that no animals had abilities the were better than humans. ...<SNIP>

Dude. DO YOU UNDERSTAND what a "quote" is????

A "QUOTE" is what a person says VERBATIM! You don't just put your own words into BOLD FONT and call it a quote!

And if you claim you are quoting someone, you need to cite the source and link to it correctly, OR quote the entire passage in context VERBATUM. USE the quote button, cut and paste, or use your superhuman memory cells and get the quote correct.

You really need to step it up. Don't make up stuff and claim it's a quote. If you wish to paraphrase me, fine. But don't lie and say your quoting me. Especially if you add your own spelling errors to what you claim I said. Now that you've risen up the the level of someone who actually does some research, you're now in the big league where accurate quoting is expected.

 

[Skaloop]

Dude. DO YOU UNDERSTAND what a "quote" is????

A "QUOTE" is what a person says VERBATIM! You don't just put your own words into BOLD FONT and call it a quote!

And if you claim you are quoting someone, you need to cite the source and link to it correctly, OR quote the entire passage in context VERBATUM. USE the quote button, cut and paste, or use your superhuman memory cells and get the quote correct.

You really need to step it up. Don't make up stuff and claim it's a quote. If you wish to paraphrase me, fine. But don't lie and say your quoting me. Especially if you add your own spelling errors to what you claim I said. You've really taken the cake.

He didn't say he was quoting you. He said, and I quote, "You said, and I can quote..." [emphasis mine].

He can quote you verbatim, but he didn't that time. He paraphrased you, and it doesn't change the substance of what you actually said.

Also, before you start calling someone out for spelling errors, it is 'verbatim' not 'verbatum'. You got it half the time.

Anyway, your original statement was "You have not documented even one ability considered by professionals
to be better than human abilities." Do you still stand by that after he's given you three of many such abilities?