How did the universe come into existence?

[ToddNotTodd]

God's Truth MUST agree with every other discovered Truth or it is NOT God's Truth. That's what the people of the last days are being shown from Genesis chapter One. A good example is the Fact that God told us more than 3k years ago that "every living creature that moveth" came forth from WATER. Gen 1:21

Science confirmed this Fact in July 2016. https://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/26/science/last-universal-ancestor.html

It's proof of God and the beginning of God pouring out His Spirit of Truth upon ALL the people of the last days, including scientists, skeptics and unbelievers:

Act 2:17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of My Spirit upon ALL flesh:

No, like I said before, you can't get from "Genesis says that all life came from water" to "a god exists". It's a non sequitur. If two religious books with contradictory gods both predict the same thing, you can't imply that both gods exist. Again, books predict things all the time. It's not evidence a god exists.

 

[redleghunter]

I am aware of only 2 possible answers to this question.

1) A random chance happening.
2) A Superior Being that had the knowledge to create.

The question is: Is there any other possible ways the universe could have come into existence besides the 2 ways that I have given above?

Thank you for your response.

"In the Beginning God..."

 

[Aman777]

No, like I said before, you can't get from "Genesis says that all life came from water" to "a god exists". It's a non sequitur. If two religious books with contradictory gods both predict the same thing, you can't imply that both gods exist. Again, books predict things all the time. It's not evidence a god exists.

Genesis 1:21 KJV says exactly that. It says that God made Whales, Birds and "every living creature that moveth" and brought them forth from WATER:

Gen 1:21 And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

If you disagree, please tell us your view.

 

[Aman777]

LOLOLOLOL Okay that actually made my day lolol "Your theory lacks power" lololol

rofl

The Gospel of Jesus Christ IS the power of God unto Salvation...Scripturally.

Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation

You left God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit out of your creation. As I posted, your theory lacks power. God Bless you

 

[Moral Orel]

Why don't you just phrase it the way you wish, then you will feel better.

I am just looking for all ways that the universe could come into existence. Tell me how many ways you think that could have happened. That's all. Thanks.

Okay, so what about the multiverse theory? There's an eternal multiverse that burps up universes. Is your question about the universe still, or would the question be about the multiverse itself since that would actually encompass all of existence?

I would add "eternally existing" to your list, not because I think this universe is eternally existing, but because the multiverse is, and that encompasses all of existence (the universe does not). If we were to only talk about the universe existing with this theory in mind, it would be like wondering about how the planet came to be if there was just one universe.

 

[ToddNotTodd]

Genesis 1:21 KJV says exactly that. It says that God made Whales, Birds and "every living creature that moveth" and brought them forth from WATER:

Gen 1:21 And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

If you disagree, please tell us your view.

I disagree with the idea that a correct fact in a book implies that a god exists. Muslims claim that the Quran contains the scientific foreknowledge below. Do you believe the Quran proves that Allah is the true god?

• Astronomy

• That planets have orbits: "A New Astronomical Quranic Method for The Determination Of The Greatest Speed C#Orbit"
• That the Big Bang happened: "The Coming of the Universe into Existence"
• That there was inflationary expansion after the Big Bang: "The Expansion of the Universe"
• That the Big Crunch will happen: "From Big Bang to Big Crunch"

• Biology/Zoology

• Several elements of embryology: "A Scientist's Interpretation of References to Embryology in the Qur'an"
• That water is necessary for life: "Water is a must have for having life in any planet in the Universe"
• That worker bees are female: "The Miracle of Honey"

• Climatology

• That clouds have weight: "The Weight of Clouds"
• Several qualities of rain: "About the Rain in the Qur'an"
• That the atmosphere has seven layers: "The Layers of the Atmosphere"

• Medicine

• That honey has medical benefits: "The miracle of honey as an alternative medicine"

• Physics

• That it is possible for humans to enter space: "The Conquest of Space"
• The speed of light: "A New Astronomical Quranic Method for The Determination Of The Greatest Speed C#Light"
• That the alternate dimensions of string theory exist: "Seven Heavens in Quran"

 

[variant]

So, did anyone actually explain how the universe exists in this thread or was it the usual?

 

[St_Worm2]

So, did anyone actually explain how the universe exists in this thread or was it the usual?

I did, but it didn't go over very well, because it was the Biblical explanation of how everything got started, and how it continues to exist today.

Come to think of it, that explanation should have had a little better reception around a place like this It just goes to show, you never know

 

[Moral Orel]

So, did anyone actually explain how the universe exists in this thread or was it the usual?

He said he'll get to a point after all the possibilities are listed. He hasn't been around in a while though. I voted eternal multiverse, but he hasn't noticed and updated his list yet.

 

[variant]

I did, but it didn't go over very well, because it was the Biblical explanation of how everything got started, and how it continues to exist today.

Come to think of it, that explanation should have had a little better reception around a place like this It just goes to show, you never know

Well when I said explanation there I meant the how, and "God did it" doesn't really explain anything because you don't understand how God would operate.

God is a proposed mysterious entity so you are left with two mysteries (how the universe was created by God, and how God works) instead of one (how is there a universe).

Then you call William of Occam and demand your money back.

 

[variant]

He said he'll get to a point after all the possibilities are listed. He hasn't been around in a while though. I voted eternal multiverse, but he hasn't noticed and updated his list yet.

And what happens if the truth lies outside the narrow band of human hypothetical power of the folks in this thread?

 

[variant]

Okay, so what about the multiverse theory? There's an eternal multiverse that burps up universes. Is your question about the universe still, or would the question be about the multiverse itself since that would actually encompass all of existence?

The problem with multiverses is that we have no way at present of demonstrating them via objective observation that they exist or do not exist.

We usually leave the unfalsifiable hypothetical ideas, where we don't really know how they operate to the religious folks.

 

[Moral Orel]

The problem with multiverses is that we have no way at present of demonstrating them via objective observation that they exist or do not exist.

We usually leave the unfalsifiable hypothetical ideas, where we don't really know how they operate to the religious folks.

Multiverse theory is doing better than all that these days though. It isn't the old "multi-worlds theory" it used to be. Inflation theory predicts multiple universes, so if inflation theory is true, then the multiverse is true. So if we have, say, 30 hypotheses that all point to a multiverse, and we can test 29 of them and they all pass, but we can't test the 30th, it's still a safe bet the 30th will pass too. I think I heard Krauss say that recently. So since we have inflation theory and all the testing we can do to confirm that, we have a lot more tests to support a multiverse than a lot of other theories.

I heard Sean Carroll talk about them too. The way he explained it is that theoretical physicists build models. If they build a model that is plausible, then you can look for ways to test it. There are a lot of things we used to think were unfalsifiable and untestable in the past. No sense abandoning things because we think they're unfalsifiable as of right now.

I'm not a "believer" in the multiverse, or however you would phrase that. I think it's the most interesting, and I think it's entirely plausible, and that's all it takes to refute all of these arguments about "something doesn't come from nothing" or "the universe had a beginning therefore it had an intelligent designer" arguments.

 

[Peter1000]

It is? How did you determine that a god existing is reasonable?

That is the 64 million dollar question. Since there are 4 or 5 different possibilities as to how the universe came into existence, which one of those ways is the most reasonable.

Thank you for your thoughts, keep going.

 

[Peter1000]

Okay, so what about the multiverse theory? There's an eternal multiverse that burps up universes. Is your question about the universe still, or would the question be about the multiverse itself since that would actually encompass all of existence?

I would add "eternally existing" to your list, not because I think this universe is eternally existing, but because the multiverse is, and that encompasses all of existence (the universe does not). If we were to only talk about the universe existing with this theory in mind, it would be like wondering about how the planet came to be if there was just one universe.

The multiverse theory came about, I believe from Stephen Hawking, to counter the existence of God and the mathmatical probability that a universe could not come into existence with these special, fine-tuned qualities and characteristics by a random chance happening.

His answer to the existence of God the 0 probability of our universe, was to invent the multiverse theory.
His theory said: There are billions of billions of trillions of trillions of universes. And because there are so many universes, it is now not impossible that 1 of them just happened to have the special, fine-tuned qualities of a life giving universe.

We could add this to our list. Multivere theory. But to a certain extent it belongs in the 'random chance happening' line, because all the billions of universes sprang up as random chance happenings. But because of the ageless nature of the multiverse, I will add it to the list.
1) random chance happening
2) the multiverse, (eternal existing) theory
3) a Superior Being, with the knowledge and abiltity to create
4) an inevitable happening
5) we don't know or understand.

Any other ideas that we can add to the list?

 

[Peter1000]

And what happens if the truth lies outside the narrow band of human hypothetical power of the folks in this thread?

We will not know the whole truth until that narrow band is enlarged. That is why Christians tend to have a 'faith' attitude, with a belief that at some time, full knowledge will be given.

 

[Peter1000]

The problem with multiverses is that we have no way at present of demonstrating them via objective observation that they exist or do not exist.

We usually leave the unfalsifiable hypothetical ideas, where we don't really know how they operate to the religious folks.

Both science and religion have unfalsibiable hypothetical ideas. The tendency toward 'faith' is not a monopoly of religion. Science too, leans heavily on 'faith', they just use other words like 'hypothesis', and 'theory', etc.

 

[doubtingmerle]

The multiverse theory came about, I believe from Stephen Hawking, to counter the existence of God and the mathmatical probability that a universe could not come into existence with these special, fine-tuned qualities and characteristics by a random chance happening.

His answer to the existence of God the 0 probability of our universe, was to invent the multiverse theory.
His theory said: There are billions of billions of trillions of trillions of universes. And because there are so many universes, it is now not impossible that 1 of them just happened to have the special, fine-tuned qualities of a life giving universe.

We could add this to our list. Multivere theory. But to a certain extent it belongs in the 'random chance happening' line, because all the billions of universes sprang up as random chance happenings. But because of the ageless nature of the multiverse, I will add it to the list.
1) random chance happening
2) the multiverse, (eternal existing) theory
3) a Superior Being, with the knowledge and abiltity to create
4) an inevitable happening
5) we don't know or understand.

Any other ideas that we can add to the list?

6) we are living in a simulated universe, created in something like a computer.
7) you dreamed it all, and one day will wake up to find you never existed!
8) Backward causation: Future creatures somehow caused the universe to start in such a way as to create themselves. (Sorta like Marty McFly got Chuck Berry to write Johnny be Good by having him hear the Johnny be Good that he had written.)

Personally I think #3, the multiverse, is the most likely.

 

[variant]

Both science and religion have unfalsibiable hypothetical ideas. The tendency toward 'faith' is not a monopoly of religion. Science too, leans heavily on 'faith', they just use other words like 'hypothesis', and 'theory', etc.

Nope, scientists tend toward skepticism, where as religion is built upon a foundation of "faith".

I can tell the difference between the two because the scientists are doing the work of looking for a way to falsify or support their idea.

If religious folks did that we would just a call them scientists too and there would be no need for distinction.

 

[variant]

We will not know the whole truth until that narrow band is enlarged. That is why Christians tend to have a 'faith' attitude, with a belief that at some time, full knowledge will be given.

Religious theists tend toward the idea that an invisible magical person is an explanation rather than a projection.

If you make the invisible magical person all powerful they can literally do anything you wish to explain with their invisible magic. So, there isn't much you can do to find observations that could ever convince you that your person isn't how things work.