How did an Electron Evolve to Know When Man is Looking at It, and Thus Change It's Course?

How did an electron evolve to know when man is looking at it?

  • An electron cannot evolve like this, it is God who controls electrons, and thus what man sees

    Votes: 3 50.0%
  • We should put the study of evolution on hold till we figure this out.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • It does not matter if evolution does not hold up at the quantum level.

    Votes: 2 33.3%
  • I have my answer below.

    Votes: 1 16.7%

  • Total voters
    6

dad

Undefeated!
Site Supporter
Jan 17, 2005
44,904
1,261
✟25,524.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
I did. Have you ever experienced spiritual warfare, or do you believe the spiritual world is a figurative thing? The spiritual world deals in what we call the fringes of QM as if it were Newtonian Mechanics.
Maybe. Maybe not.

I know how entanglement works, I have seen it in action, and there are other mathematicians and physicists that know how it works as well.

Don't believe you. So tel us then if you know..



They are exploiting us - our swiftness to scoff at things we have been told are woo woo, our ability to psychologically devour each other when we are in competition, and our myopia in general. We are the consumer; our minds are the product/commodity. Most of us don't realize it because it is easier to attack each other than an actual cause that can change the world.
They and us eh? Well, God protects us. They can imagine mischief all the day long for all the good it'll do em.

But, let me be very clear: it is very easy to exploit human psychology because almost everyone has had years of introductory psychological programming, and feel no reason to change their thinking.
He that lives by exploiting will die by it.

That is where people learn how to treat each other according to the world - which is why the world is the way it is. Your response to my posts are a bit of a surprise - but not much; I understand where it comes from. Honestly, I thought someone as familiar with the Most High God as you claim would understand the crushing degeneracy of mathematics and physics as we know it - but also respect the elegance (also assuming you were beyond a bachelor level of study). That was my fault for assuming (or, was I right?)
Creation is elegant. But deeper than science thinks or can think.
 
Upvote 0

Kaon

Well-Known Member
Mar 12, 2018
5,676
2,349
Los Angeles
✟111,507.00
Country
United States
Faith
Other Religion
Marital Status
Celibate
Maybe. Maybe not.



Don't believe you. So tel us then if you know..

If you don't believe me, I don't need to tell you. It would be a waste of my time, and your time. I think we are having an honest conversation, but it would be a distraction to explain entanglement when our last debate was me trying to convince you of one of the postulates of QM (collapse of wavefunctions when state is observed/cat is dead and alive at the same time until someone observes it).


They and us eh? Well, God protects us. They can imagine mischief all the day long for all the good it'll do em.

He that lives by exploiting will die by it.


Creation is elegant. But deeper than science thinks or can think.

"They" have existed since the beginning because we scoff at "their" existence while "they" exploit our ignorance of "them" and "their" devices - this is all despite the warnings throughout history we got from people telling "us" about "them". We usually killed those people who told "us" about "them". So, I think it is worth noting how important it is not to underestimate "them" - since "they" have been exploiting the generations of humanity from the beginning.

God protects us, but He didn't make us ignorant, and doesn't raise us up to stay in ignorance. There is nothing wrong wit realizing the incredible severity of the scheme going on to keep your soul in ignorance while at the same time understanding that you are protected by the Most High God. In fact, He tells us to watch so that we don't get surprised.

Creation is elegant; science is just a tool to study its wonder. Academia is the human way of applying science to logic (human based) and reason (human based) to formulate a picture of the science (knowledge) acquired. On the grand scheme of things, a pithy parable can explain entanglement better than science or academia. That doesn't mean what our rudimentary academics call "entanglement" isn't a piece of the puzzle the Most High God has spread out for us - to be solved with His help.

I don't care about academics, or academia - what they have to say, and why - because I am in a position to understand it and verify on my own. I am sympathetic to your disdain for academia, but I don't think every learned person is 1) part of academia, and 2) an opponent of the Most High God. I think these may be skewing your understanding of my position.
 
Upvote 0

dad

Undefeated!
Site Supporter
Jan 17, 2005
44,904
1,261
✟25,524.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
If you don't believe me, I don't need to tell you. It would be a waste of my time, and your time. I think we are having an honest conversation, but it would be a distraction to explain entanglement when our last debate was me trying to convince you of one of the postulates of QM (collapse of wavefunctions when state is observed/cat is dead and alive at the same time until someone observes it).
No cat was observed..ever. The theories are based on electrons/protons etc. The issue is not whether we know particles entangle. So we need not explain entangled particles, you can't anyhow, all you can do is see how it works. Now if you claim a person needs to observe things for them to be real, well, sorry, that is basically speculation.

"They" have existed since the beginning because we scoff at "their" existence while "they" exploit our ignorance of "them" and "their" devices - this is all despite the warnings throughout history we got from people telling "us" about "them".
So they are anyone you point a finger at? Then they are guilty of whatever you accuse them of!?

We usually killed those people who told "us" about "them". So, I think it is worth noting how important it is not to underestimate "them" - since "they" have been exploiting the generations of humanity from the beginning.
Since Adam and Eve were the first people no one was exploiting them from the beginning actually.
God protects us, but He didn't make us ignorant, and doesn't raise us up to stay in ignorance. There is nothing wrong wit realizing the incredible severity of the scheme going on to keep your soul in ignorance while at the same time understanding that you are protected by the Most High God. In fact, He tells us to watch so that we don't get surprised.
Men always had to look to God for protection etc. I don't recall the verse where He told us to worry (about anything) about THEM? Ha. I would be more worried about yourself.
Creation is elegant; science is just a tool to study its wonder. Academia is the human way of applying science to logic (human based) and reason (human based) to formulate a picture of the science (knowledge) acquired.
Not really, it is a methodology and knowledge set that omits God and so is doomed to never be able to know truth.
On the grand scheme of things, a pithy parable can explain entanglement better than science or academia. That doesn't mean what our rudimentary academics call "entanglement" isn't a piece of the puzzle the Most High God has spread out for us - to be solved with His help.
I am sure it is, but that puzzle involves God and His will, and not just what fallen men observe. Perhaps creation was built to respond to man and God, so that what is possible depends on how we will things to happen!? Who knows? But right now man is fallen, so whatever he observes or tinkers with is really out of his depth.
I don't care about academics, or academia - what they have to say, and why - because I am in a position to understand it and verify on my own. I am sympathetic to your disdain for academia, but I don't think every learned person is 1) part of academia, and 2) an opponent of the Most High God. I think these may be skewing your understanding of my position.
Academia supports the big bang and evolution. They are fable mongers and weavers that weave things very much against God and His word. So anyone from 'academia' that is learned, must denounce large parts of what they were taught to be on God's side.
 
Upvote 0

Kaon

Well-Known Member
Mar 12, 2018
5,676
2,349
Los Angeles
✟111,507.00
Country
United States
Faith
Other Religion
Marital Status
Celibate
No cat was observed..ever. The theories are based on electrons/protons etc. The issue is not whether we know particles entangle. So we need not explain entangled particles, you can't anyhow, all you can do is see how it works. Now if you claim a person needs to observe things for them to be real, well, sorry, that is basically speculation.

So they are anyone you point a finger at? Then they are guilty of whatever you accuse them of!?

Since Adam and Eve were the first people no one was exploiting them from the beginning actually.
Men always had to look to God for protection etc. I don't recall the verse where He told us to worry (about anything) about THEM? Ha. I would be more worried about yourself.
Not really, it is a methodology and knowledge set that omits God and so is doomed to never be able to know truth.
I am sure it is, but that puzzle involves God and His will, and not just what fallen men observe. Perhaps creation was built to respond to man and God, so that what is possible depends on how we will things to happen!? Who knows? But right now man is fallen, so whatever he observes or tinkers with is really out of his depth.
Academia supports the big bang and evolution. They are fable mongers and weavers that weave things very much against God and His word. So anyone from 'academia' that is learned, must denounce large parts of what they were taught to be on God's side.


Ok.
 
Upvote 0

StevenMerten

I Love You, God!
Dec 27, 2005
3,068
434
65
Lynnwood, WA
Visit site
✟69,502.00
Country
United States
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
Albert Einstein's EPR experiment, finally preformed in the 1980s, tells us that electrons, protons and neutrons, making up a star, 13 billion of light years away, know when conscious observers on earth, Adam-kind, are looking at them, and thus they materialize into physical form, for us to see. Time and distance mean nothing. When you look at a subatomic particle, its transformation into physical form for us to see, transends time and space, as proven by Albert Einstein's EPR experiment.

Wow! How did an electron evolve to know when someone is looking at it, from 13 billion light years away, and thus transform into a physical particle, 13 billion years into its past, give off light which will travel 13 billion light years through space, to be visible to Adam, when he first gazes up into the heavens? Einstein's EPR experiment proves this to scientists. You really have to have strong faith in Atheism, to not believe in God, when you see the proof of how Electrons, Protons and Neutrons, act.

Albert Einstein did not like the scientific proof that atoms only become a physical particle when man is looking at them. Einstein could not prove that the universe exists even when man is not looking at it. Through decades of thinking, Einstein came up with the EPR experiment, which would decide who is right, him or Neils Bohr. Einstein felt that there is no way a star, 13 billion light years away from earth, could have subatomic particles which could sense when man is looking at them, and thus materialize into physical form, for Adam and us to see. Scientists tell us, Neils Bohr was right, not Einstein. Electrons 13 billion light years away from us know, instantaneously, when conscious man on earth is looking at them, and they thus transform into physical particles for us to see, 13 billion light years away. Its a miracle! All of Creation is a miracle! God is truly our All Powerful Creator!
 
Upvote 0

dad

Undefeated!
Site Supporter
Jan 17, 2005
44,904
1,261
✟25,524.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Albert Einstein's EPR experiment, finally preformed in the 1980s, tells us that electrons, protons and neutrons, making up a star, 13 billion of light years away, know when conscious observers on earth, Adam-kind, are looking at them, and thus they materialize into physical form, for us to see. Time and distance mean nothing. When you look at a subatomic particle, its transformation into physical form for us to see, transends time and space, as proven by Albert Einstein's EPR experiment.

Wow! How did an electron evolve to know when someone is looking at it, from 13 billion light years away, and thus transform into a physical particle, 13 billion years into its past, give off light which will travel 13 billion light years through space, to be visible to Adam, when he first gazes up into the heavens? Einstein's EPR experiment proves this to scientists. You really have to have strong faith in Atheism, to not believe in God, when you see the proof of how Electrons, Protons and Neutrons, act.

Albert Einstein did not like the scientific proof that atoms only become a physical particle when man is looking at them. Einstein could not prove that the universe exists even when man is not looking at it. Through decades of thinking, Einstein came up with the EPR experiment, which would decide who is right, him or Neils Bohr. Einstein felt that there is no way a star, 13 billion light years away from earth, could have subatomic particles which could sense when man is looking at them, and thus materialize into physical form, for Adam and us to see. Scientists tell us, Neils Bohr was right, not Einstein. Electrons 13 billion light years away from us know, instantaneously, when conscious man on earth is looking at them, and they thus transform into physical particles for us to see, 13 billion light years away. Its a miracle! All of Creation is a miracle! God is truly our All Powerful Creator!
The distance to stars is actually unknown. The way distances are determined involves the assumption time and space are uniform in all the universe. So whatever entanglement we do see from a star is from a distance not known.

Perhaps you could explain simply how particles change because we look at them? Explain how you think stars know when they are being looked at.
 
Upvote 0

StevenMerten

I Love You, God!
Dec 27, 2005
3,068
434
65
Lynnwood, WA
Visit site
✟69,502.00
Country
United States
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
Does everyone else following this thread understand how modern science understands entangled particles? Observing one entangled particle, instantaneously causes its entangled particle's partner's wave function to collapse as well, regardless of physical distance apart and regardless of distance apart in physical time. Even if an entangled particle is 13 billion light years apart, or existing 13 billion years in the past, if you look at one, its partner particle's wave function also collapse. This is how modern science sees entangled particles. If you do not understand this, please watch the following videos.


 
Upvote 0

dad

Undefeated!
Site Supporter
Jan 17, 2005
44,904
1,261
✟25,524.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Does everyone else following this thread understand how modern science understands entangled particles? Observing one entangled particle, instantaneously causes its entangled particle's partner's wave function to collapse as well, regardless of physical distance apart and regardless of distance apart in physical time. Even if an entangled particle is 13 billion light years apart, or existing 13 billion years in the past, if you look at one, its partner particle's wave function also collapse. This is how modern science sees entangled particles. If you do not understand this, please watch the following videos.

You did show the lab on earth where particles being observed respond a certain way. Why are you talking about sextillions of trillions of billions of miles away? Got some data or experiment that applies?
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

FireDragon76

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Apr 30, 2013
30,565
18,498
Orlando, Florida
✟1,257,436.00
Country
United States
Faith
United Ch. of Christ
Marital Status
Legal Union (Other)
Politics
US-Democrat
A cow cannot evolve to become a cow, until atoms evolve to become the building blocks of what makes up a cow. Everything in the universe is built out of subatomic particles at the quantum level.

In the 'double-slit' experiment, it is proven that, at the quantum level, electrons, protons and neutrons, are in a state of chaos, and only organize into near perfect order, to form immense objects, when, of all things, conscious man is looking at them. So, how did electrons 'evolve', to know when man is looking at them, and thus change their course? Electrons even know when man is going to look at them in the future, and thus change their course ahead of time? Wow! How did an electron evolve to have the capability to see into the future?


It is my understanding that is an erroneous New Age intepretation of Quantuum Mechanics. It would be more correct to say that both human observation and the electron's superposition are interdependent: one is not causing the other.
 
Upvote 0

StevenMerten

I Love You, God!
Dec 27, 2005
3,068
434
65
Lynnwood, WA
Visit site
✟69,502.00
Country
United States
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
It is my understanding that is an erroneous New Age intepretation of Quantuum Mechanics. It would be more correct to say that both human observation and the electron's superposition are interdependent: one is not causing the other.

Neils Bohr
"It is meaningless to assign Reality to the universe in the absence of observation; in the intervals between measurement, quantum systems truly exist as a fuzzy mixture of all possible properties (science labels this, 'a superposition of states')."​

Hello firedragon,
We are talking about Neils Bohr's concept of subatomic particles. Neils Bohr is considered 'The Father of Quantum Mechanics' (subatomic particles). Neils Bohr is the scientist who put the electron rings on the atom. 'New Age' did not even exist when Neils Bohr was pioneering Quantum Theory, 100 plus years ago.
 
Upvote 0

FireDragon76

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Apr 30, 2013
30,565
18,498
Orlando, Florida
✟1,257,436.00
Country
United States
Faith
United Ch. of Christ
Marital Status
Legal Union (Other)
Politics
US-Democrat
Neils Bohr
"It is meaningless to assign Reality to the universe in the absence of observation; in the intervals between measurement, quantum systems truly exist as a fuzzy mixture of all possible properties (science labels this, 'a superposition of states')."​

Hello firedragon,
We are talking about Neils Bohr's concept of subatomic particles. Neils Bohr is considered 'The Father of Quantum Mechanics' (subatomic particles). Neils Bohr is the scientist who put the electron rings on the atom. 'New Age' did not even exist when Neils Bohr was pioneering Quantum Theory, 100 plus years ago.

Niels Bohr did not believe that human beings create reality, as is taught in some esoteric New Age circles.


"An especially unusual version of the observer effect occurs in quantum mechanics. Physicists have found that even passive observation of quantum phenomena (i.e. observations that do not directly act upon the phenomena), can actually change the phenomena; the 1998 Weizmann experiment is a particularly famous example. These findings have led to the speculations about whether the conscious mind can actually affect reality, though most physicists today consider this to be a misconception of quantum mechanics. It is rooted in a misunderstanding of the quantum wave function ψ and the quantum measurement process. "

Who is the Mystical Observer in Quantum Mechanics?
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

StevenMerten

I Love You, God!
Dec 27, 2005
3,068
434
65
Lynnwood, WA
Visit site
✟69,502.00
Country
United States
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
Niels Bohr did not believe that human beings create reality, as is taught in some esoteric New Age circles.
Neils Bohr
"It is meaningless to assign Reality to the universe in the absence of observation; in the intervals between measurement, quantum systems truly exist as a fuzzy mixture of all possible properties (science labels this, 'a superposition of states')."​

So FireDragon, You do believe in Neils Bohr's Quantum Theory, where the universe does not exist when man is not looking at it, correct?
 
Upvote 0

FireDragon76

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Apr 30, 2013
30,565
18,498
Orlando, Florida
✟1,257,436.00
Country
United States
Faith
United Ch. of Christ
Marital Status
Legal Union (Other)
Politics
US-Democrat
Neils Bohr
"It is meaningless to assign Reality to the universe in the absence of observation; in the intervals between measurement, quantum systems truly exist as a fuzzy mixture of all possible properties (science labels this, 'a superposition of states')."​

So FireDragon, You do believe in Neils Bohr's Quantum Theory, where the universe does not exist when man is not looking at it, correct?

He isn't saying here that reality doesn't exist when it isn't observed.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

StevenMerten

I Love You, God!
Dec 27, 2005
3,068
434
65
Lynnwood, WA
Visit site
✟69,502.00
Country
United States
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
He isn't saying here that reality doesn't exist when it isn't observed.

Hello FireDragon,
So do you believe that the PBS video, 'The Great Bohr-Einstein Debate', link below, is just a bunch of lunacy? They are talking about Neils Bohr's ' 'Peek A Boo' universe, a universe which does not exist when man is not looking at it.

 
Upvote 0

StevenMerten

I Love You, God!
Dec 27, 2005
3,068
434
65
Lynnwood, WA
Visit site
✟69,502.00
Country
United States
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
A quantum experiment suggests
there’s no such thing as objective reality

Physicists have long suspected that quantum mechanics allows two observers to experience different, conflicting realities. Now they’ve performed the first experiment that proves it.

A quantum experiment suggests there’s no such thing as objective reality
As of a couple months ago, scientists have established multiple realities in the lab. This is much like Miracle of the Sun - Wikipedia where 60,000 people witnessed the reality of the sun dancing in the sky, while the rest of the world witnessed the reality of the sun in its usual place. Multiple realities.

When an electron is in its wave form, it is in a non-particle state of all possibilities. It is only when man looks at the electron, that one reality, out of all possible realities, is chosen, by God, for man to see. It seems to now be proven that God can, in fact, show different observers, different realities.

To the 'Realism' scientist, he must prove how subatomic particles, evolved to know how to display two different realities, to two different sets of observers.
 
Upvote 0

SkyWriting

The Librarian
Site Supporter
Jan 10, 2010
37,279
8,500
Milwaukee
✟410,948.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
A cow cannot evolve to become a cow, until atoms evolve to become the building blocks of what makes up a cow. Everything in the universe is built out of subatomic particles at the quantum level.

In the 'double-slit' experiment, it is proven that, at the quantum level, electrons, protons and neutrons, are in a state of chaos, and only organize into near perfect order, to form immense objects, when, of all things, conscious man is looking at them. So, how did electrons 'evolve', to know when man is looking at them, and thus change their course? Electrons even know when man is going to look at them in the future, and thus change their course ahead of time? Wow! How did an electron evolve to have the capability to see into the future?

No, electrons don't evolve.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Halbhh

Everything You say is Life to me
Site Supporter
Mar 17, 2015
17,184
9,196
catholic -- embracing all Christians
✟1,157,377.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
A quantum experiment suggests
there’s no such thing as objective reality

Physicists have long suspected that quantum mechanics allows two observers to experience different, conflicting realities. Now they’ve performed the first experiment that proves it.

A quantum experiment suggests there’s no such thing as objective reality
As of a couple months ago, scientists have established multiple realities in the lab. This is much like Miracle of the Sun - Wikipedia where 60,000 people witnessed the reality of the sun dancing in the sky, while the rest of the world witnessed the reality of the sun in its usual place. Multiple realities.

When an electron is in its wave form, it is in a non-particle state of all possibilities. It is only when man looks at the electron, that one reality, out of all possible realities, is chosen, by God, for man to see. It seems to now be proven that God can, in fact, show different observers, different realities.

To the 'Realism' scientist, he must prove how subatomic particles, evolved to know how to display two different realities, to two different sets of observers.
That was an interesting article from the MIT Technology Review, though I'd not connect it to the event about the 'sun dancing' which for example could have come from an unusual atmospheric phenomena for example (the atmosphere has a bunch of remarkable phenomena that we wouldn't expect until we learn about them; 'Sprites' is a good example of something few would imagine possible and which was finally captured on video showing it wasn't just the imagination of the airline pilots that claimed to have seen them). Notice that whether God intervened to create alternate experiences or simply did something to the atmosphere above that crowd (which could cause the appearance of the Sun to move around or dance, in some unexpected atmospheric phenomena that would bend the light from the sun (akin to how you see things waver in heated air)), or if it was only a natural event, all of these are possible, and so there are quite a few ways it could have happened.

But the MIT Technology Review article was quite interesting.

Here's another article from Quanta Magazine you may find quite interesting if you liked that MIT TR article:
https://www.quantamagazine.org/a-new-theorem-maps-out-the-limits-of-quantum-physics-20201203/
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0