How did an Electron Evolve to Know When Man is Looking at It, and Thus Change It's Course?

How did an electron evolve to know when man is looking at it?

  • An electron cannot evolve like this, it is God who controls electrons, and thus what man sees

    Votes: 3 50.0%
  • We should put the study of evolution on hold till we figure this out.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • It does not matter if evolution does not hold up at the quantum level.

    Votes: 2 33.3%
  • I have my answer below.

    Votes: 1 16.7%

  • Total voters
    6

StevenMerten

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A cow cannot evolve to become a cow, until atoms evolve to become the building blocks of what makes up a cow. Everything in the universe is built out of subatomic particles at the quantum level.

In the 'double-slit' experiment, it is proven that, at the quantum level, electrons, protons and neutrons, are in a state of chaos, and only organize into near perfect order, to form immense objects, when, of all things, conscious man is looking at them. So, how did electrons 'evolve', to know when man is looking at them, and thus change their course? Electrons even know when man is going to look at them in the future, and thus change their course ahead of time? Wow! How did an electron evolve to have the capability to see into the future?

 

Halbhh

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More like we just don't know enough. We don't even know whether the Copenhagen Interpretation is really the only true one (we can't entirely rule out some competing speculations), but rather it only looks as if the less-than-satifying Copenhagen interpretation is still the best one, in that it is seemingly true, even if possibly incomplete about what the reality is.

For instance, some more far reaching explanation may end up being true, and we cannot yet say, even such as that the observer helps to create reality (remember, that is only yet another of many speculations). Saying the Copenhagen interpretation is all we can ever do is itself yet another speculation, and also all the alternatives are still speculative so far as the last I read (in December). Not much is proven except that the probability wave equations work great.

Why not just let it remain unknown/mysterious, and wait, and continue to watch and learn.
 
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A_Thinker

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A cow cannot evolve to become a cow, until atoms evolve to become the building blocks of what makes up a cow. Everything in the universe is built out of subatomic particles at the quantum level.

In the 'double-slit' experiment, it is proven that, at the quantum level, electrons, protons and neutrons, are in a state of chaos, and only organize into near perfect order, to form immense objects, when, of all things, conscious man is looking at them. So, how did electrons 'evolve', to know when man is looking at them, and thus change their course? Electrons even know when man is going to look at them in the future, and thus change their course ahead of time? Wow! How did an electron evolve to have the capability to see into the future?


Is it your contention that, there was no organized matter, until there was a person to observe it ?
 
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sfs

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In the 'double-slit' experiment, it is proven that, at the quantum level, electrons, protons and neutrons, are in a state of chaos, and only organize into near perfect order, to form immense objects, when, of all things, conscious man is looking at them.
You keep saying things like that, and they're always wrong. Quantum mechanics and the double slit experiment say nothing like this.
 
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Kaon

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A cow cannot evolve to become a cow, until atoms evolve to become the building blocks of what makes up a cow. Everything in the universe is built out of subatomic particles at the quantum level.

In the 'double-slit' experiment, it is proven that, at the quantum level, electrons, protons and neutrons, are in a state of chaos, and only organize into near perfect order, to form immense objects, when, of all things, conscious man is looking at them. So, how did electrons 'evolve', to know when man is looking at them, and thus change their course? Electrons even know when man is going to look at them in the future, and thus change their course ahead of time? Wow! How did an electron evolve to have the capability to see into the future?


Electrons are field excitations; they did not evolve unless the field evolved. And, the field is axiomatically unchanged (the algebraic and geometric structure space a field creates).

In fact, all energy - macro, or quantum - are field phenomena that can be affected remotely, or locally. The electron you are talking about may just be visiting from a different reality/aeon; the field excitation that produces the charge, mass-energy, and angular momentum associated with the electron is an identical excitation to the electrons in the atmosphere of Jupiter, or the electrons in the DNA of my right arm.

This is a problem for academics, but it has been known for thousands of years in one way or another - especially in terms of philosophy. There is no time; it is an illusion. Its definition is based on the number of hyperfine transitions in a cesium-133 atom: on the whole, arbitrary. This makes the "activities" of fundamental and intermediate particles a little less curious (but, all the same amazing), as electrons 1) are identical excitations and 2) participate in "spooky action at a distance" because of field interactions. This spooky action includes being able carry qubits of information back and forth over space.


The aether is real; the entire aeon shares information through entanglement (unity locally, or remotely). This is why the universe follows the orders of the Most High God - symmetry, equilibrium, and entanglement. Prophecy is an example of entanglement; electrons aren't the only particles that can do this.
 
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StevenMerten

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Hello Halbhh and Thinker,

Albert Einstein accepted the outcome of the 'Double Slit' experiment which indicated that the mere act of human consciousness observing the path of an electron, changed the course the electron took. This lead Albert Einstein to state, 'I would like to think the moon was there, even when I wasn't looking at it'.

If it is God Who is controlling every subatomic particle in the universe, and how individuals see them, this helps to explain how two different groups of people on earth could observe two different realities, when observing the same object, during the same period of time.

In the Miracle of the Sun, 1917, we had all the people of the world experiencing two different realities. 60,000 people, faithful and scoffers alike, experienced a reality where the sun danced in the sky. People up to 25 miles away from the epicenter of God's miracle, experienced the reality of the dancing sun. Some people in the crowd, along with the rest of the world, experienced the reality of the sun being in it's normal position. Now we have personal observation data which indicates that God can operate the 'observer effect' in multiple realities, during the same period in physical time.

Miracle of the Sun - Wikipedia

Never, ever, underestimate the Omnipotence of our Almighty God!
 
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Kaon

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Is it your contention that, there was no organized matter, until there was a person to observe it ?

That is a postulate of quantum mechanics: all possible wavefunctions exist until one makes a measurement of an observable, and then (based on the probability of the state to exist) all the wavefunctions collapse into their respective observed states.

The cat is alive and dead until one opens the box.
 
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com7fy8

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In the 'double-slit' experiment, it is proven that, at the quantum level, electrons, protons and neutrons, are in a state of chaos, and only organize into near perfect order, to form immense objects, when, of all things, conscious man is looking at them.
I don't know.

But in case this were so, it could mean humans can with our minds effect material things around us.

Also, it could mean God is having this happen.

And it could be an illusion.

In any case, God's ways are "past finding out" (in Romans 11:33), and His ways are working in His creation. So, this could be why we have not figured out how a lot of created things work, including in medicine.
 
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Radagast

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A cow cannot evolve to become a cow, until atoms evolve to become the building blocks of what makes up a cow.

Atoms don't evolve.

In the 'double-slit' experiment, it is proven that, at the quantum level, electrons, protons and neutrons, are in a state of chaos, and only organize into near perfect order, to form immense objects, when, of all things, conscious man is looking at them.

No, you completely misunderstand the 'double-slit' experiment.
 
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StevenMerten

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The aether is real; the entire aeon shares information through entanglement (unity locally, or remotely). This is why the universe follows the orders of the Most High God - symmetry, equilibrium, and entanglement. Prophecy is an example of entanglement; electrons aren't the only particles that can do this.

The Strange Link
between the Human Mind and Quantum Physics

by Philip Ball, 16 February 2017​

"(John) Wheeler even entertained the thought that the presence of living beings, which are capable of "noticing", has transformed what was previously a multitude of possible quantum pasts into one concrete history. In this sense, Wheeler said, we become participants in the evolution of the Universe since its very beginning. In his words, we live in a "participatory universe."
The strange link between the human mind and quantum physics
Hello Kaon,
Yes, obviously it is not the electron itself which is evolving; instead it is how the human mind interacts in observing the electron (the electron representing everything physical in the universe), is evolving.

A man takes a trip from Chicago to Seattle. If he is traveling like an electron travels, then immediately there are trillions of the same man, taking every path possible between Chicago and Seattle, and they all start running into one another, causing waves. These waves of other versions of the traveling man, actually, deflect and change, the course traveled by the traveling man, to where he could end up in Tacoma, Portland, Vancouver BC, or even Cincinnati OH, instead of Seattle. The electron, (now in the conscious observer role), looks out to see how man is doing on his trip to Seattle. The electron sees the traveling man driving through South Dakota. Suddenly there has only been one traveling man, unobstructed by his trillions of other, probability traveling man, selves, all the way back to when he started in Chicago. The simple act of the electron, looking at man's progress, and path, made the wave of all other possibilities of the traveling man, fall, and now, never to have existed, all the way back to Chicago, where and when, the man began his trip. This is how electrons, traveling in the quantum realm, actually works. This is why quantum physicists are so puzzled by the strangeness of the quantum world.

What we want to know in the Theistic Evolution forum, is how Adam, opening his eyes upon his Creation, and looking at the past of the universe, eliminates all the trillions of other possible paths the universe could have taken from Day One of Creation, to Day Six of Creation, and leaves only the one past of Creation, 'ever to have existed', since Day One of Creation (The Big Bang), which we see today.

And then, of course, we want to consider multiple pasts from Day One of Creation, which the universe could have taken, which can become the actually past, 'ever to have existed', the universe took, if God tweaks with man's consciousness.

What do you think?
 
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StevenMerten

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Does everyone who is not a quantum physicist understand what is happening in my story about, the traveling man and the electron, in my post 11?

Until conscious man observes the path an electron takes, all possible paths are being taken by the same electron. The same electron, taking all possible paths, is physically bumping into itself, thus causing the wave.

Once conscious observer man looks at the path the electron has 'chosen', then all the other self of the electron, now never existed from the very time of origin, that the electron started its trip. So we can see that these alternate paths of the same electron self, actually physically existed, in the way the wave of them bounce off one another, to end up at the final target. Yet when conscious man observes the path of the electron, there are no other electron selfs and there never were any other electron selfs, so the end results at the target, changes into what you would expect it would look like, when shooting an electron through a double slit.

The path of the electron changes simply because conscience man looked at the electron and the path it took.

Now bring this up to the world we live in, along with the past of our universe, if conscience man was not hear to look at it.
 
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Radagast

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Until conscious man observes the path an electron takes, all possible paths are being taken by the same electron. The same electron, taking all possible paths, is physically bumping into itself, thus causing the wave.

Once conscious observer man looks at the path the electron has 'chosen', then all the other self of the electron, now never existed from the very time of origin, that the electron started its trip. So we can see that these alternate paths of the same electron self, actually physically existed, in the way the wave of them bounce off one another, to end up at the final target. Yet when conscious man observes the path of the electron, there are no other electron selfs and there never were any other electron selfs, so the end results at the target, changes into what you would expect it would look like, when shooting an electron through a double slit.

You completely misunderstand the double slit experiment.
 
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StevenMerten

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You completely misunderstand the double slit experiment.
Hello Radagast,
Instead of just coming in here to tear others down. Please come in and explain the double slit experiment, as to what you see the double slit experiment, indicates to you. Then we can discuss both your incite and my incite.
 
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Radagast

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Please come in and explain the double slit experiment

Your best bet is to read a textbook. But the key idea is:
  • An electron propagates as a wave
  • The electron wave goes through both slits (this is what produces the interference pattern)
  • The electron is "observed" by a screen or other device
  • At the time that it is observed, the electron "collapses" to a particle, and behaves as such
This is not consistent with what you said.
 
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StevenMerten

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Your best bet is to read a textbook. But the key idea is:
  • An electron propagates as a wave
  • The electron wave goes through both slits (this is what produces the interference pattern)
  • The electron is "observed" by a screen or other device
  • At the time that it is observed, the electron "collapses" to a particle, and behaves as such
This is not consistent with what you said.
Hello Radagast,
Thank you for adding to the discussion rather than just a tear down.

First off,
Do you agree that no matter where the electron is measured, before or after the double slit, at the end, or at the beginning of its travel, their is no wave, when man is observing the electron, at any point in the travel of the electron? In other words the electron can see into the future as to whether or not it is going to be measured by man, and thus adjust, whether or not it will have a wave to begin with.
 
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Radagast

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First off,
Do you agree that no matter where the electron is measured, before or after the double slit, at the end, or at the beginning of its travel, their is no wave, when man is observing the electron, at any point in the travel of the electron?

That's absolutely wrong. If that was true, there would be no interference pattern observed, yet there is.

The interference pattern shows that, when it passed through the slits, the electron was a wave that went through both slits. That's the whole point of the experiment.
 
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StevenMerten

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Hello Radagast,
Do you agree that no matter where the electron is measured, before or after the double slit, at the end, or at the beginning of its travel, their is no wave, when man is observing the electron, at any point in the travel of the electron? In other words the electron can see into the future as to whether or not it is going to be measured by man, and thus adjust, whether or not it will have a wave to begin with.

That's absolutely wrong. If that was true, there would be no interference pattern observed, yet there is.

The interference pattern shows that, when it passed through the slits, the electron was a wave that went through both slits. That's the whole point of the experiment.

Hello Radagast,
That is the infinitely, tremendously gigantic, (accidental), discovery, of the double slit experiment! Yes: there is interference, When Man is Not Observing the electron. Yet No: When Man is Observing the electron, there is no interference, and never was any interference, from the beginning of the electron's travel.

The Strange Link
between the Human Mind and Quantum Physics

by Philip Ball, 16 February 2017​

If nature seems to be changing its behavior depending on whether we "look" or not, we could try to trick it into showing its hand. To do so, we could measure which path a particle took through the double slits, but only after it has passed through them. By then, it ought to have "decided" whether to take one path or both.

An experiment for doing this was proposed in the 1970s by the American physicist John Wheeler, and this "delayed choice" experiment was performed in the following decade. It uses clever techniques to make measurements on the paths of quantum particles (generally, particles of light, called photons) after they should have chosen whether to take one path or a superposition of two.

It turns out that, just as Bohr confidently predicted, it makes no difference whether we delay the measurement or not. As long as we measure the photon's path before its arrival at a detector is finally registered, we lose all interference.
The strange link between the human mind and quantum physics
 
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Radagast

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