Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.
Dr.Strangelove: Okay...I'll bite. "Godly teachers"? The Apostle Peter. "Respective teachings"? Will this suffice?
I don't know them.. the wolves OR the godly ones.
Just as I don't know the wolves or godly baptist preachers
or the wolves or godly of the RCC's preachers or the
Presbyterians preachers.
Yep.. he does try to trick.
But the devil is always bad
God is always good.
Who IS damaging?
Those who misrepresent the Bible are damaging, but they're in every camp, so it's not a pent/charis thang.
Nope. I love them all... I will break bread with any of them.. I will worship with any of the.
My only qualification is that they are part of the one church.
And what else is there?
I sure can't say i will only worship with those who have it all correct lol.
That'd be maybe none of us.
Who IS damaging?
Those who misrepresent the Bible are damaging, but they're in every camp, so it's not a pent/charis thang.
Here's the key. If it's not in the Bible I don't do it (Spiritually speaking)
So.. I don't fall down on the floor.. for one.
I don't speak in tongues in front of people..
And I don't speak of things that are as though they aren't.
That's called .. denial.
God has already "sorted it out".
That is why Jesus warned of false prophets and wolves in sheep's clothing, and commanded His sheep to discern the true from the counterfeit.
Why is this so hard for you to believe? I've seen you ask a question along these lines more than once, of more than one Pentecostal/Charismatic...myself included...face it Doc, we're not all like you think we are.So theres nothing like that going on in your church?
Why is this so hard for you to believe? I've seen you ask a question along these lines more than once, of more than one Pentecostal/Charismatic...myself included...face it Doc, we're not all like you think we are.
It's okay to be wrong, really, it is.
If you go back and read my posts in this thread you'll see that I have not been being evasive, and I have given a few names...most the people I know and respect there's no sense in me listing their names because you wouldn't be able to do any research on them, as they are just local ministers.So then why dont you help me to understand? Don't just say "we're not all the same" ....tell me WHY your not the same. Tell me the difference. You say there are 750 million Pentacostals and crow about them like they are the CORRECT MAJORITY. And then you chastise ME for grouping them all together!?
Why dont you tell me who are the wolves in the movement and how their 'spiritual gift' practices differ from your own? What seperates the unbiblical pente churches from the biblical ones. Gimme a list.
Why are you so scared to name the pastors who you endorse?
Whats with all the evasiveness?
Can you please invite some of your friends on the Pente / Charis forums to come and take part in this thread please. I don't see much involvement from them.
If you go back and read my posts in this thread you'll see that I have not been being evasive, and I have given a few names...most the people I know and respect there's no sense in me listing their names because you wouldn't be able to do any research on them, as they are just local ministers.
I've also listed some of the differences...and others have done well at naming the ones that have questionable practices.
As far as folks in the Pentecostal forum...I don't go in there that much, and, well, the few people I do know from that forum...it's probably in their best interest that they stay out of a thread such as this, because they could end up posting something that may be against the rules...not everyone can handle belittling of their faith as graciously as some.
It's not hard to find my posts though...I was fairly active in the first 8 or so pages of the thread...
As I believe sunlover already pointed out, things that are done that are not in scripture....i.e. being slain in the spirit, should not be practiced. Personally, I don't have a problem if I happen to hear someone praying in tongues while they're at the altar, or during praise and worship time...in my church, at least, the sanctuary is so large where if it's only one or two then it's not really a distraction. But I do believe there is error when several are speaking in tongues simultaneously.Didn't see anything that you posted regarding practices in the church.
1) Why don't we just start by you listing how 'spiritual gifts' are used UNBIBLICALLY in some Pente / Charis churches, and then tell me how your church does it different?
2) Are there ANY well know leaders in the Pente / Charis movement TODAY that you would endorse? Is there a single one?
I'm not a fan of anyone you can watch on TBN...the only one that really sticks out, though, is Rod Parsley...I happened to catch his show one day and he was teaching people how to speak in tongues...tongues is not something that can be learned, it's a gift given to us by the Holy Spirit...after watching that program I lost any respect I could have for Mr. Parsley's teaching.3) Can you name ANY WOLVES that you know of in the movement? Can you tell me why they are wolves?
4) What percentage of the 750 million Pente's do you think are following wolves and practicing unbilblical things in their churches? You've talked about how ALL of them are a shining light to the world so is that true or whats the deal do you think?
If we could just honestly talk about these points one on one, quoting eachother in a proper communication I would much appreciate it Drew.
Doc.
As I believe sunlover already pointed out, things that are done that are not in scripture....i.e. being slain in the spirit, should not be practiced.
Personally, I don't have a problem if I happen to hear someone praying in tongues while they're at the altar, or during praise and worship time...in my church, at least, the sanctuary is so large where if it's only one or two then it's not really a distraction. But I do believe there is error when several are speaking in tongues simultaneously.
I see no error with active worship...raising hands, clapping, dancing...these are all scriptural, and we should worship God with our entire being...not just our heart or mind...however, folks should worship in the way they are comfortable, and they should not be ridiculed because they choose to stand or sit silently during praise and worship time...I've seen this happen, where one was persuading the other to raise their hands...let people worship how they choose.
There's no need to harp on the gifts...and contrary to what many may think, Pentecostals don't spend all of their time learning, teaching, or manifesting the gifts...most of us simply believe that they are available today, and the Spirit gives certain gifts to certain people for His glory...not ours.
At most of the P/C churches I've visited, ministered at or been a member of, the sermons are pretty much what you would hear in any other evangelical church...salvation, sanctification, the person of Christ, etc...though I have been to some that constantly preach on money and blessings...and of course the blessing come from giving them money...this is prosperity doctrine, and I'm completely opposed to that...as are the majority of Classical Pentecostals and Charismatics.
Healing is one of the gifts...at my church we have prayer time at the end of every service...the pastor and elders are at the altar to pray with anyone who needs it...this could be for healing, salvation, prayer for a loved one, or whatever...we believe God can and does heal people, but it's His will who is healed and who is not...the man at the pool of Bethesda in John's Gospel is a good example of this...there are some, typically Word of Faith, who believe that we can claim our healing, and God will do it...then when it doesn't happen they're quick to say that it was because the person's faith wasn't strong enough...this is in error, IMO.
I guess I would endorse Mark Driscoll...he's a bit different...calls himself a continuist as opposed to a cessationist...there may be others I would endorse, but I don't really keep up with who's hot and who's not.
I'm not a fan of anyone you can watch on TBN...the only one that really sticks out, though, is Rod Parsley...I happened to catch his show one day and he was teaching people how to speak in tongues...tongues is not something that can be learned, it's a gift given to us by the Holy Spirit...after watching that program I lost any respect I could have for Mr. Parsley's teaching.
First of all, 750 million is a combined estimate of Pentecostals and Charismatics...Pentecostals are those who have their own denominations...Assemblies of God, Church of God, IPHC, Foursquare, etc...Some groups that prefer to be called Charismatic have their own denominations...Vineyard, Calvary Chapel, Sovereign Grace, perhaps a few others...but you can also find Charismatic Catholics, Methodists, Presbyterians, Anglicans, etc...Word of Faith also gets lumped into this...
So, to give you an exact percentage would be hard. I don't know the number that fall into the WoF category as they're lumped together with the Charismatics.
So then why dont you help me to understand? Don't just say "we're not all the same" ....tell me WHY your not the same. Tell me the difference. You say there are 750 million Pentacostals and crow about them like they are the CORRECT MAJORITY. And then you chastise ME for grouping them all together!?
Why dont you tell me who are the wolves in the movement and how their 'spiritual gift' practices differ from your own? What seperates the unbiblical pente churches from the biblical ones. Gimme a list.
Why are you so scared to name the pastors who you endorse?
Whats with all the evasiveness?
Can you please invite some of your friends on the Pente / Charis forums to come and take part in this thread please. I don't see much involvement from them.
Aye but then comes to remembrance the scripture "who are you to judge another man's servant? By God he stands or falls"
Doc said:I'll have a look at Driscoll and get back to you. Thank you.
That guy seems to be a Calvinist. Arn't there any pastors in the Pentecostal / Charismatic denominations that you would endorse? Any leaders of note at all?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?