How Damaging is the Pentacostal / Charismatic Movement?

[JimfromOhio]

Wow....uhm....thanks for that post Ih. Very honest of you.

Can we say then there is a HUGE problem in the Pente movement. Like, a high percentage are being led away from solid doctrine.

I'm gonna try not to throw the baby out with the bathwater. I just need to get to the bottom of this issue.

How do the apostate Pente / Charis church operations of the 'spiritual gifts' DIFFER from what all you guys keep supporting in all the other threads where we have been talking about the 'gifts'?

Pentecostals and Charismatics are not in the same group. This is the first difference.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

That guy seems to be a Calvinist.

Calvinist is a broad term like charismatic, or fundamentalist, it applies across denominations .

 

[Gregory Thompson]

I think it is more edifying just to identify bad teachings . nowadays the pedestal teachers are failing miserably and falling than faster before .. so .. just knowing what is bad and what is good is better .

 

[JimfromOhio]

I can say that most Pentacostals do not discern doctrines which is why many of them are failing. Discernment is needed today to help guide the sheeps to discern the from false to truth.

 

[Tangible]

Can you show me please where raising hands, clapping, dancing is considered to be part of a Christians worship? I'm not saying your wrong but I havn't spotted those things in scripture personally.

Where do you draw the line? Running around church? Is that acceptable? Does it happen in your church, or is it frowned upon?

This is what New Testament worship looks like:

Heb 12:28 Therefore let us be grateful for receiving a kingdom that cannot be shaken, and thus let us offer to God acceptable worship, with reverence and awe, 29 for our God is a consuming fire.

Acts 2:42 And they devoted themselves to

- the apostles' teaching [Scripture]
- and the fellowship, to the breaking of bread [fellowship=[I] koinonia[/I], communion]
- and the prayers. [Definite article. 'The prayers' are the Psalms.]

A handy rule of thumb for worship is this: If you wouldn't do it in front of the President of the United States, you shouldn't be doing it in the worship of Almighty God.

 

[Dr.Strangelove]

Pentecostals and Charismatics are not in the same group. This is the first difference.

Do their church activities, as in...their operations in the 'gifts'.....differ much?

Which group are more over the top when it comes to unbiblical disorderly behaviour?

 

[Dr.Strangelove]

Calvinist is a broad term like charismatic, or fundamentalist, it applies across denominations .

Ok well, can I have the name of a respectable pastor who has Biblical doctrines AND who calls himself either Pentacostal or Charismatic?

Are there any Pentacostals or Charismatics hanging out on the GT forum?

Hellooooooooooooo??

I think it is more edifying just to identify bad teachings . nowadays the pedestal teachers are failing miserably and falling than faster before .. so .. just knowing what is bad and what is good is better .

Doesn't hurt to shine alight on false teachers MC. We're certainly called to do so in scripture.

​

7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

Beware, means to be AWARE. And we can certainly help our brethren to be aware too! It's late in the day guys. We need to get everything out in the open and expose those who bear bad fruit.​

 

[Optimax]

I am wOF and I agree that our beliefs are different than some, especially regarding faith.

What faith is, how it works and how to do it on purpose.

Is it dangerous to those who do not agree?

The answer is YES!

Those who do not understand faith are already in danger because the just(Christians) are told over and over to live by faith.

Hab 2:4

4 Behold, his soul which is lifted up is not upright in him: but the just shall live by his faith .
KJV

Rom 1:17

17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith : as it is written, The just shall live by faith .
KJV

Gal 3:11

11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith .
KJV

Heb 10:38

38 Now the just shall live by faith : but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.
KJV

I will be obedient and live by faith as well as I can and that is fun.

 

[Frogster]

Do their church activities, as in...their operations in the 'gifts'.....differ much?

Which group are more over the top when it comes to unbiblical disorderly behaviour?

You know, i do not care for the extreme types either, the Todd bentley crowd, animal noises and such. I agree on that..really..

but why is it, that when i read your posts, i feel like you want old fuddy duddy, stiff, boring, dull, unfestive, plastic, run of the mill, unjoyus, repetitive, unartistic, dated, act like a statue, sleepy old people style of worship?

Are you sure you did not make a mistake, on your age, when you registered?:o

 

[Dr.Strangelove]

This is what New Testament worship looks like:

Heb 12:28 Therefore let us be grateful for receiving a kingdom that cannot be shaken, and thus let us offer to God acceptable worship, with reverence and awe, 29 for our God is a consuming fire.

Acts 2:42 And they devoted themselves to

- the apostles' teaching [Scripture]
- and the fellowship, to the breaking of bread [fellowship=[I] koinonia[/I], communion]
- and the prayers. [Definite article. 'The prayers' are the Psalms.]

A handy rule of thumb for worship is this: If you wouldn't do it in front of the President of the United States, you shouldn't be doing it in the worship of Almighty God.

All of that makes sense to me. Thank you Tang.

Any response from those who say dancing around in church is proper? Is there scripture to support hand raising, clapping and dancing?

I can say that most Pentacostals do not discern doctrines which is why many of them are failing. Discernment is needed today to help guide the sheeps to discern the from false to truth.

I guess thats what this thread is for. To help the Pentes out with their discernment.

 

[Dr.Strangelove]

You know, i do not care for the extreme types either, the Todd bentley crowd, animal noises and such. I agree on that..really..

but why is it, that when i read your posts, i feel like you want old fuddy duddy, stiff, boring, dull, unfestive, plastic, run of the mill, unjoyus, repetitive, unartistic, dated, act like a statue, sleepy old people style of worship?

Are you sure you did not make a mistake, on your age, when you registered?:o

I guess I'm just old fasioned Frogmeister. And um...I like to test church activities against scripture?

Whats artistic worship?

Do you need fancy frills to make your worship.........interesting?

 

[Frogster]

I guess I'm just old fasioned Frogmeister. And um...I like to test church activities against scripture?

Whats artistic worship?

Do you need fancy frills to make your worship.........interesting?

Sunday, I will put on a tux, and do a waltz...

 

[Dr.Strangelove]

Wheres all the Pentecostals?

 

[Dr.Strangelove]

Sunday, I will put on a tux, and do a waltz...

Who's the lucky lady?


I'll be doing the Lord's prayer in private. Boring I know.

 

[Frogster]

Who's the lucky lady?

I'll

Good one...

 

[sunlover1]

Really? You can't name a single wolf in the Pente / Charis movement?

Can't you tell the difference between good and bad?

Oh believe me, I can tell good from bad.
But i can't name wolves that i dont know can I?
Shall i name some that I've heard gossiped about?
I don't think that would be too Christlike..
do you?

Are you sure you can't recognise the bad fruit?

7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep’s clothing,
but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
7:16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of
thorns, or figs of thistles?
7:17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree
bringeth forth evil fruit.​

So...do you know them by their fruits?

Know em well.

Yeah but were talking about the Pente/Charis in this thread.

So WHO are the ones who misrepresent the Bible in that movement?

WHAT unbiblical practices are they doing in church?

And HOW do those practices differ from Biblical Pente/Charis practices?

Please tell us which leaders/teachers in the movement you say are respectful and Biblical and then we can compare their practices to those of the wolves.

Thats the point of this thread.

I havent gone to their churches. I havent studied their doctrines
And If I had, I wouldn't throw them under the bus. (to the wolves lol)

So you are happy to embrace anyone who calls themself Christian..no matter what their doctrines?

I am happy to embrace anyone that is a child of God.
Doctrine is not the key.
He said you'll know them by their LOVE
ONE for ANOTHER.

IOW,, folks that arent haters on each other.
THOSE are who I embrace as brothers.

FINALLY.

Someones actually talkig about the topic. Ok let's examine this.

You don't 'speak in tongues' in front of people. I assume your not talking about foreign languages here but instead...uhm....gibberish. So you would say that any church where people 'speak in tongues' in public is unbiblical correct?

Not correct.
I would say that "people" who speak in tongues in public
"without an interpreter" MAY be incorrect.

Do you think that those who gossip about another man's servants are "incorrect"?

And also any church where people are falling around on the floor or in other ways acting in a disorderly fashion is unbiblical yes? i.e. uncontrollable giggling, 'drunk in the spirt'...'slain in the spirit'....running up and down the aisles etc.

I have no idea if someone falls if that's unbiblical. They did fall in the bible ..
I don't do it and it's not practiced in my own church.

So theres nothing like that going on in your church?

Nothing like that goes on at my church but i can only imagine what goes on at yours
What is your denomination again?
No reason not to say it,, right?

 

[sunlover1]

Wheres all the Pentecostals?

Probably praying for your soul.

 

[sunlover1]

I can say that most Pentacostals do not discern doctrines

You can say that, but it doesn't make it so.

which is why many of them are failing.

Many are falling huh?
Because men of God from all denoms arent attacked regularly and fall?

Discernment is needed today to help guide the sheeps to discern the from false to truth.

A little good old fashioned study and a prayer for some wisdom would go a long ways imo.

 

[Ih8s8n]

I am happy to embrace anyone that is a child of God.
Doctrine is not the key.
He said you'll know them by their LOVE
ONE for ANOTHER.

IOW,, folks that arent haters on each other.
THOSE are who I embrace as brothers.

sunlover1: A couple of things. First of all, Biblical "love" isn't always mushy-wushy or ooey-gooey. In other words, such things as reproof/rebuke are also part of what constitutes Biblical "love". I'm not saying that you don't agree with this already (I don't know your position), but I'm just sayin'. Secondly, doctrine is extremely important. If the type of "love for one another" that you described can be separated from doctrine/scripture, then are the folks who attended Woodstock, for example, your brothers and sisters?

"While he yet talked to the people, behold, his mother and his brethren stood without, desiring to speak with him. Then one said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to speak with thee. But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren? And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren! For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother." (Matthew 12:46-50)

 

[Dr.Strangelove]

Oh believe me, I can tell good from bad.
But i can't name wolves that i dont know can I?
Shall i name some that I've heard gossiped about?
I don't think that would be too Christlike..
do you?

Here you say you don't know them

Know em well.

And here you say you know them well. So whats it to be Sunlover? Do you know them or not?

I'm not asking for gossip. Thats the least of my concerns. Gossip is IDLE chatter about people personal lives that have no real importance. Please don't start with all the 'oh your not allowed to talk about people coz its not nice!' stuff. We're allowed to discern false prophets and practices. We are commanded to in fact.

Would you warn your brethren if they were attending a congregation pastored by a WOLF? Or would that be gossip?

I havent gone to their churches. I havent studied their doctrines
And If I had, I wouldn't throw them under the bus. (to the wolves lol)

Why havn't you studies their doctrines. Are you not interested in being aware of apostacy?

I am happy to embrace anyone that is a child of God.
Doctrine is not the key.
He said you'll know them by their LOVE
ONE for ANOTHER.
IOW,, folks that arent haters on each other.
THOSE are who I embrace as brothers.

I'm afraid doctrine IS key.

1:9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ,
hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath
both the Father and the Son.
1:10 If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him
not into your house, neither bid him God speed:
1:11 For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.​

Not correct.
I would say that "people" who speak in tongues in public
"without an interpreter" MAY be incorrect.

Do you think many churches in the Pente / Charis movement are misusing 'tongues'? Give us a rough estimate please.

How do you know if they are correct even with an interpreter? Why does having an interpreter legitamize talking gibberish? How do you know if the interpretation is of God?

Have you ever had 2 interpreters write down what one 'tonguer' has spoken and then compared the two accounts?

Do you think that those who gossip about another man's servants are "incorrect"?

Definatley. Gossip is wrong and also a complete waste of time. Gossip is NOT what we are doing here. You are getting very defensive already.

I have no idea if someone falls if that's unbiblical. They did fall in the bible ..
I don't do it and it's not practiced in my own church.

Can you cite scripture where God causes someone to fall over? As in, they are thrown to the floor?

Can you give me a rough percentage of Pentacostal / Charis churches where there is falling down happening in their congregation. Just an estimate. Thanks. Majority? Minority? Half 'n half?

Nothing like that goes on at my church but i can only imagine what goes on at yours
What is your denomination again?
No reason not to say it,, right?

I don't have a denomination. I've never set foot in a church in all my life and never had a non-RC church even CLOSE to me in my 2 years of being a Christian.

Why? What do you think would go on at a church that I would attend?

Shock horror...lots of feisty, inquisitive Christians asking awkward but honest questions about the faith? . Not your kinda place eh?