How Damaging is the Pentacostal / Charismatic Movement?

[Gregory Thompson]

But if you want to discuss the whole North American/Western World church in actuality being the beast of revelation pretending to be the church .. then please step over the boundary line .

 

[will_b_true]

I believe that there is only one "right" interpretation of any given Biblical passage, the meaning God intended when He "breathed" His word into the human author. If this view is correct, it follows that of the many "different interpretations" skeptics refer to, there must be only one that is valid. That is, while a particular passage may have many applications, it must have only one meaning - the one the author (through inspiration of the Holy Spirit) intended.

Interpretation of Scripture will never be an exact science. The beliefs we bring to the text - our theological presuppositions - will inevitably color our interpretation to some degree.

Biblical hermeneutics is the science that teaches the principles and methods of interpreting the Word of God. Proper hermeneutics provide us tools to help ensure that we are basing our interpretations on the truth as God has revealed it, while avoiding error to the greatest degree possible. This method of interpretation focuses attention not only on literary forms but upon grammatical constructions and historical contexts out of which the Scriptures were written. We can never eliminate our presuppositions (nor should we, if they are Scripturally sound), but we can "test all things" - including our interpretations - and "hold to what is good (1 Thessalonians 5:21 ).

Yes, I totally agree with Luther's axiom, which was what the early church held as well. Irenaeus spelled it our elequently in "Contra Heresies" in his definition of the principle of perspecuity of the Scriptures.

However, I am speaking of those that are main and plain being understood fairly easily.
I also agree that we have to remember that we are still sinners, which often gets in the way of interpretting, so we have to be on guard. But as RC Sproul says, "As sinners, the best we can hope for is to get 75-80% right. LOL

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Wof? lol
All i did was agree with you and quote scripture.
Maybe the Scripture is too WOFish

Not sure how "elsewise" you can do from me since ya don't know what it is I "do"

Here's the key. If it's not in the Bible I don't do it (Spiritually speaking)
So.. I don't fall down on the floor.. for one.
I don't speak in tongues in front of people..
And I don't speak of things that are as though they aren't.

That's called .. denial.

after experiencing the unity . i've noticed people are not ready for it .

unity cannot be now . but i do desire it when the time is right .

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Huh huh.....As Paul wrote in 2 Timothy 2:19 "Nevertheless, God's solid foundation stands firm, sealed with this inscription: "The Lord knows those who are His." The Bible clearly says that all Christians are a body of believers indwelt by the Spirit (1 Cor. 12:13). Romans 8:9 says, "If any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of His."

hmm this scripture says that "the Lord" knows those who are His . so that means we cannot know?

 

[JimfromOhio]

Yes, I totally agree with Luther's axiom, which was what the early church held as well. Irenaeus spelled it our elequently in "Contra Heresies" in his definition of the principle of perspecuity of the Scriptures.

However, I am speaking of those that are main and plain being understood fairly easily.
I also agree that we have to remember that we are still sinners, which often gets in the way of interpretting, so we have to be on guard. But as RC Sproul says, "As sinners, the best we can hope for is to get 75-80% right. LOL

I agree with R.C. Sproul. I have some of his books including on biblical interpretations.

 

[will_b_true]

i dunno, i go throguh this same conversation with them about other christians sometimes .. but they "too" have the holy spirit .. really .. or you guys don't .. whatever though . i'm sure when we're all dead God will sort it out.

God has already "sorted it out".

That is why Jesus warned of false prophets and wolves in sheep's clothing, and commanded His sheep to discern the true from the counterfeit.

They can say what they want. They are wrong.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

God has already "sorted it out".

That is why Jesus warned of false prophets and wolves in sheep's clothing, and commanded His sheep to discern the true from the counterfeit.

They can say what they want. They are wrong.

well you know them by their fruit .. but are you Jesus like enough to be their judge?

 

[JimfromOhio]

hmm this scripture says that "the Lord" knows those who are His . so that means we cannot know?

This raises the whole question of the doctrine of regeneration because this is the most serious thing of all. This work is the work of the Holy Spirit, and His work alone, and no one else can do it. And, as it is His work, it is always a thorough work; and is always a work that will show itself.

If anyone brags about "their faith", I often have questions. Faith is from God.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

This raises the whole question of the doctrine of regeneration because this is the most serious thing of all. This work is the work of the Holy Spirit, and His work alone, and no one else can do it. And, as it is His work, it is always a thorough work; and is always a work that will show itself.

If anyone brags about "their faith", I often have questions. Faith is from God.

the fruit of the spirit ..

is love

joy

peace

patience

kindness

goodness

faithfulness

gentleness and

self control

 

[JimfromOhio]

God has already "sorted it out".

That is why Jesus warned of false prophets and wolves in sheep's clothing, and commanded His sheep to discern the true from the counterfeit.

They can say what they want. They are wrong.

God do not need "to sort out". He KNOWS. God knows all. He has known everything from the beginning. Nothing is a surprise to God, nor does He ever come into possession of new knowledge. Did it ever occur to you that nothing occurs to God?

 

[sunlover1]

Whom does that include?
Everybody that claims to be Christian?

Or, does Jesus and Scripture give very specific qualifications as to whom are actually those "building stones" Paul spoke of?

He does.
He said, "You'll know them by their love, one for another"

I believe that there is only one "right" interpretation of any given Biblical passage, the meaning God intended when He "breathed" His word into the human author.

God's ways are not our ways though His thoughts are not ours. High as the heavens
are above the earth His thoughts are above ours!
God could and I believe , did, cause His word to be what he purposes it to be for any
given circumstance.
ONE of the reasons that I say this is because the Apostles used Scripture out of context
sometimes .. IOW they'd quote some passage that was originally written for one purpose
(seemingly) and used it for another point.

Also, because God's name is "I AM"
He is.
Period...

As the rain and the snowcome down from heaven,
and do not return to it
without watering the earth
and making it bud and flourish,
so that it yields seed for the sower and bread for the eater,
so is my word that goes out from my mouth:
It will not return to me empty,
but will accomplish what I desire
and achieve the purpose for which I sent it.

HIS Will be done on earth as it is in Heaven!

Unity in what way?

In Christ

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Do you see the fruit?

Love is patient ..

love is kind

love does not boast

love does not envy .

love is not rude

love does not seek to get its own way .

love does not keep record of wrongs

love is not easily provoked

love does not cheer on injustice .

love rejoices because of truth .

no greater love than this that a man lay down his life for his friends

we know God's love in this that while we were yet sinners Jesus died for us

Jesus said to Judas as he betrayed Him "friend why have you come?"

he called him friend .

do you see the fruit?

 

[Gregory Thompson]

and this one ..

James 3:8-18

8But the tongue can no man tame; it is an unruly evil, full of deadly poison.
9Therewith bless we God, even the Father; and therewith curse we men, which are made after the similitude of God.
10Out of the same mouth proceedeth blessing and cursing. My brethren, these things ought not so to be.
11Doth a fountain send forth at the same place sweet water and bitter?
12Can the fig tree, my brethren, bear olive berries? either a vine, figs? so can no fountain both yield salt water and fresh.
13Who is a wise man and endued with knowledge among you? let him shew out of a good conversation his works with meekness of wisdom.
14But if ye have bitter envying and strife in your hearts, glory not, and lie not against the truth.
15This wisdom descendeth not from above, but is earthly, sensual, devilish.
16For where envying and strife is, there is confusion and every evil work.
17But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy.
18And the fruit of righteousness is sown in peace of them that make peace.

do you see the fruit?

 

[JimfromOhio]

the fruit of the spirit ..

is love

joy

peace

patience

kindness

goodness

faithfulness

gentleness and

self control

Yes.. Appearance is one thing but fruit of the Spirit is the other. The Holy Spirit is within us believers, Christ dwells in our hearts, and "Christ in you, the hope of glory" (Colossians 1:27) is the burning core of the Christian faith. The Bible provides a clear understanding of genuine saving faith-true faith produces good fruit.

 

[sunlover1]

Do you see the fruit?

Love is patient ..

love is kind

love does not boast

love does not envy .

love is not rude

love does not seek to get its own way .

love does not keep record of wrongs

love is not easily provoked

love does not cheer on injustice .

love rejoices because of truth .

no greater love than this that a man lay down his life for his friends

we know God's love in this that while we were yet sinners Jesus died for us

Jesus said to Judas as he betrayed Him "friend why have you come?"

he called him friend .

do you see the fruit?

Awesome words..
I cry each time I remember that he calls me His friend.
I'm so blessed by that ..
Thanks for posting it MC...
God is GOOD!
It's the goodness of God that leads a man to repentance.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

1 John 4:16-18

16 And so we know and rely on the love God has for us.
God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in him. 17 In this way, love is made complete among us so that we will have confidence on the day of judgment, because in this world we are like him. 18 There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love.

This is how we can have confidence on the day of Judgment, that His love is made complete in us .

 

[JimfromOhio]

He does.
He said, "You'll know them by their love, one for another"


God's ways are not our ways though His thoughts are not ours. High as the heavens
are above the earth His thoughts are above ours!
God could and I believe , did, cause His word to be what he purposes it to be for any
given circumstance.
ONE of the reasons that I say this is because the Apostles used Scripture out of context
sometimes .. IOW they'd quote some passage that was originally written for one purpose
(seemingly) and used it for another point.

Also, because God's name is "I AM"
He is.
Period...

As the rain and the snowcome down from heaven,
and do not return to it
without watering the earth
and making it bud and flourish,
so that it yields seed for the sower and bread for the eater,
so is my word that goes out from my mouth:
It will not return to me empty,
but will accomplish what I desire
and achieve the purpose for which I sent it.

HIS Will be done on earth as it is in Heaven!


In Christ

On earth as is in heaven. God's kingdom in heaven is established, the prayer is let it come to this earth. God's name is hallowed in heaven it isn’t always hallowed on earth, although His will is done in heaven it isn’t always done on earth. God’s hallowed name, God’s kingdom, God’s will. Whatever the Lord pleases, He does, in heaven and in the earth, in the seas and in all deeps (Psalm 135:6).

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Good night . i'll catch up on this thread sometime later today .

 

[JimfromOhio]

Good night . i'll catch up on this thread sometime later today .

Same here. Good night

 

[papaJP]

I will only say that if you do not believe in the Holy Spirit and the filling you are denying God in the personification of the Holy Spirit.

Jesus said you can curse the Father, and reject Him but to deny the Holy Spirit you are dammed and lost.

The admosition to not follow man but to seek God and the filling of the Holy Spirit is true. We must study, pray and allow the Holy Spirit to guide and fill us with the knowledge God wants us to have (and He will not give you anything you cannot handle or are not mature enough for).
As for the miracles and workings of the Holy Spriit as was written in the Bible it is happening today. If you have not been blessed with a chance to experience them you need to open your heart and allow the Holy Soirit to fill you and use you.