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How could you tell?

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Yamaha06R6Guy

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It depends on how God is defined. Some for example believe that cows and snakes and animals are gods. Surely those that define god in those creatures do not view god as flawless perfection continually.

The accepted definition of God by Christiandom is a perfect being who is incapable of sin and indeed the Scriptures portray Him as Light in whom there is no darkness neither shadow of turning.

If you define God this way, He is incapable of error or deceit. It is only possible to think God could have any corruptness whatsoever if you defined Him as the gods of paganism do.


Precisely the point I am making.

The God of Christianity is by definition Good.

So asking how do we know if God is not lying or how do we know He is not evil is like asking us how do we know if a triangle is not a four-sided shape or how do we know a triangle is not a five-sided shape.....

A triangle, by definition, is none of those things, so it is not hard at all to answer.

A triangle must be a three sided shape. If it lacks this property of "three-sidedness" it is not a triangle.

Likewise, if God lacked this "Goodness" He is not God at all!
 
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You're questioning why God must be good by definition. You should have just asked for me to explain why God is good by definition instead of accusing me of comitting a fallacy.

The word "God" as I use it and as philosophers use it refers to The Greatest Conceivable Being.

Whatever you can conceive of as being the "Greatest Being" that is God. In Spanish the word is Dios, in English, God, in Latin Deus, Italian Dio etc etc....

You can call the concept ghdhd if you like. The point is is that The Greatest Conceivable Being in order to be aptly labeled as such MUST possess certain attributes. One of them is goodness.

The ontological argument creates a contradiction using the equivocation fallacy.

And doesn't arrive at "good".
 
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It depends on how God is defined. Some for example believe that cows and snakes and animals are gods. Surely those that define god in those creatures do not view god as flawless perfection continually.

The accepted definition of God by Christiandom is a perfect being who is incapable of sin and indeed the Scriptures portray Him as Light in whom there is no darkness neither shadow of turning.

If you define God this way, He is incapable of error or deceit. It is only possible to think God could have any corruptness whatsoever if you defined Him as the gods of paganism do.

You are talking about it being illogical after-the-(accepted) fact.

The question is, how could you tell if the accepted definition was true or not.
 
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Yamaha06R6Guy

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The ontological argument creates a contradiction using the equivocation fallacy.

And doesn't arrive at "good".

LOL....

Who said anything about the ontological argument?

And please stop listing these fallacies, we are talking about God as has been defined in Western Philosophy.

We are not arguing anything. We are simply telling you that God, by definition is Good.
 
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LOL....

Who said anything about the ontological argument?

And please stop listing these fallacies, we are talking about God as has been defined in Western Philosophy.

We are not arguing anything. We are simply telling you that God, by definition is Good.

Because that is the modern version (verbiage) of Anselm's ontological argument?

So, I guess the answer would be "lol you did".

Anyway, if you say it is good, how are you able to determine this?

(Again without, I know you hate this word, using any fallacies that you have previously used.)
 
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super animator

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*sigh* What I'm trying to say here, is that you can question the premises of a conclusion, which in turn question the premises of that conclusion that is used as a premises used for another concluiton, repeatedly until you reach a dead end.( In which in this case you have to assume it's true without any premises to justify it otherwise all the conclusions following up will render false.) If it isn't a dead end, but rather continues in a infinite behavior like faction, than how do you know that isn't any false conclusions that is used as a premises following after, that is simply out of your reach?
Frankly if you trying to "owned" them by asking a question of "how can you tell?" without them resorting predicable yet understandable answers which is the result of their (to-them) self-evident philosophical worldview that they used as a premises for their conclusions, while thinking that you don't have any that you consider to be self-evident philosophical worldview, and every concluiton that you have doesn't rely on any self-evident philosophical worldview, that every conclusion that you have is back with it's own premises, which in turn think that the conclusions used in as a premises in turn have it's own premises in a self-evident contradictory belief that the infinite like chain is without any false conclusion that is used as a premises for other contradictory.
I can't help to think of the pathetic person insecurity that gain the feeling of security by pointing out in a form of a question, "how can you tell" while ignoring his own.

By all means tell us what are you trying to achieve here by questioning the Christians? Frankly you spun my curiosity.
 
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Archaeopteryx

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It depends on how God is defined. Some for example believe that cows and snakes and animals are gods. Surely those that define god in those creatures do not view god as flawless perfection continually.

The accepted definition of God by Christiandom is a perfect being who is incapable of sin and indeed the Scriptures portray Him as Light in whom there is no darkness neither shadow of turning.

If you define God this way, He is incapable of error or deceit. It is only possible to think God could have any corruptness whatsoever if you defined Him as the gods of paganism do.

That's fine as a definition, but it's important to recognise that it ultimately strips God of his omnipotence. If God can't be evil in any way because he is by definition good, then there are certain states of being that are closed off to him by his nature, meaning that there are things he has no power to do (e.g., act wickedly).
 
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*sigh* What I'm trying to say here, is that you can question the premises of a conclusion, which in turn question the premises of that conclusion that is used as a premises used for another concluiton, repeatedly until you reach a dead end.( In which in this case you have to assume it's true without any premises to justify it otherwise all the conclusions following up will render false.) If it isn't a dead end, but rather continues in a infinite behavior like faction, than how do you know that isn't any false conclusions that is used as a premises following after, that is simply out of your reach?
Frankly if you trying to "owned" them by asking a question of "how can you tell?" without them resorting predicable yet understandable answers which is the result of their (to-them) self-evident philosophical worldview that they used as a premises for their conclusions, while thinking that you don't have any that you consider to be self-evident philosophical worldview, and every concluiton that you have doesn't rely on any self-evident philosophical worldview, that every conclusion that you have is back with it's own premises, which in turn think that the conclusions used in as a premises in turn have it's own premises in a self-evident contradictory belief that the infinite like chain is without any false conclusion that is used as a premises for other contradictory.
I can't help to think of the pathetic person insecurity that gain the feeling of security by pointing out in a form of a question, "how can you tell" while ignoring his own.

By all means tell us what are you trying to achieve here by questioning the Christians? Frankly you spun my curiosity.

"Word Salad" for $800.

I see how your ending to the no-spaces paragraph ended with essentially NO U, but I'll ignore it.

I'm trying to achieve an understanding, and it applies to any person with a personal deity, of how they could tell if what they know about it is true. That's it.
 
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intojoy

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Archaeopteryx said:
That's fine as a definition, but it's important to recognise that it ultimately strips God of his omnipotence. If God can't be evil in any way because he is by definition good, then there are certain states of being that are closed off to him by his nature, meaning that there are things he has no power to do (e.g., act wickedly).

Maybe the product of evil is not produced by power but is the absence of preventative power.
 
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super animator

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"Word Salad" for $800.
So essentially you shown to me that you not interested at all by ignoring what I wrote by which in doing so,

"I see how your ending to the no-spaces paragraph ended with essentially NO U, but I'll ignore it."
having a lack of understanding by making this asinine comment.

You're not showing that you're taking this conversation seriously.
 
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Yamaha06R6Guy

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"Word Salad" for $800.

I see how your ending to the no-spaces paragraph ended with essentially NO U, but I'll ignore it.

I'm trying to achieve an understanding, and it applies to any person with a personal deity, of how they could tell if what they know about it is true. That's it.

I am going to answer the way you want me to for the sake of seeing where this is going and say that I would have no way of knowing if God was lying or not.

Now what?
 
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So essentially you shown to me that you not interested at all by ignoring what I wrote by which in doing so,


having a lack of understanding by making this asinine comment.

You're not showing that you're taking this conversation seriously.

I am, it is you that I thought was not.

Your responses appeal to the supposed inevitable quandary of "how can you know anything" and make appeals to "self-evidential philosophical views".

This, however, does not answer the question.

It's quite a simple question, really.
 
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I am going to answer the way you want me to for the sake of seeing where this is going and say that I would have no way of knowing if God was lying or not.

Now what?

I want you to answer truthfully. That is the way I want you to.

Is that the truth?
 
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No that is not what I believe, but I want to see what your point is?

So what is your point?

I don't have a "point". I have a question.

Kind of like "x+3=5, what is x?" My question gives me an answer. The answer would tell me, how can you solve for x.

So, I guess, the point would be, how one could tell/discern if a deity was telling the truth?
 
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super animator

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I am, it is you that I thought was not.

Your responses appeal to the supposed inevitable quandary of "how can you know anything" and make appeals to "self-evidential philosophical views".

This, however, does not answer the question.

It's quite a simple question, really.
Your question is just another form of "how can you know anything" only narrowed down to a category.
 
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intojoy

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Non sequitur said:
I'm just curious.

I know theists assume their god is good, wrote/directly influenced the bible, talks to you, etc., but how would you know if your god was either evil or a trickster and lying?

I liked your question because the answer is: I don't know. My question is: you got a better deal? Cause the God of the Bible is giving away full pardons for free. I gotta say tho that I do not believe God is sending in audibles to anyone and if some says "god told me this" be very cautious they're makin it up.
 
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Your question is just another form of "how can you know anything" only narrowed down to a category.

You said that, like there's not a big difference.

Which there is.
 
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