How Could God allow this?

[dcalling]

There have been many different threads which have asked this question about Corona virus. Many of the posters assert that God is the creator of all things (agreed) that He is omnipotent and omniscient (agreed) and that given these criteria coronavirus could not have taken place without His allowing it (agreed). He foresaw it would happen (omniscient), He created it (creator of all things) and He had the power to prevent it (omnipotent). I agree with all of this.

Others, also quoting scriptures point out that God is love (agreed), He is a merciful and good God (agreed), in Him is no darkness (agreed), His thoughts for us are good and not evil (agreed). How do you reconcile these two?

This is commonly known as the problem of evil and is a logical argument used by atheists to deny that God exists. Their argument is that the definition of God is that He is the creator of all things (agreed). Evil exists (agreed). Therefore God created evil (disagree and will explain). There are many ways that Christians try to squirm out of this and they are not scriptural. They make Satan (Lucifer was also created by God) into some kind of powerful being who has the ability to create evil and sin even though he is a created being by God (this does not change the fact that if evil exists, it was part of the creation that God created). For example the Bible says God cannot lie. How then could he create a universe in which there are lies and liars?

Therefore I wanted to open this thread up to Christians so that we could examine the scriptures and understand "How could God allow this to happen?"

From a software engineer's point of view:
Engineers design things that try to simplify things, make things easier. Usually those are repeated things.
However we are now trying to design things that can evolve and fix issues that are not designed for.
The smarter the designer, the better his design can handle exceptions. But even our best designs are not live, they can't exceed our design specifications (i.e. think for themselves).

God made the best design, something that are self aware and can think for themselves, which is all living things (humans and animals, we can do it better). When we are first created we are good. But God also give us the capacity to do what ever we want, because we are a better design, not like machines. God also give us law (don't eat from the tree of knowledge).

So God is good, God created good things. But the things He created is so "good" that they are capable of disobey God's command, to create a big show for all to see. And that is why we call history His-Story, it is all a story, for all to see, for the good of the believers.

 

[Bruce Leiter]

There have been many different threads which have asked this question about Corona virus. Many of the posters assert that God is the creator of all things (agreed) that He is omnipotent and omniscient (agreed) and that given these criteria coronavirus could not have taken place without His allowing it (agreed). He foresaw it would happen (omniscient), He created it (creator of all things) and He had the power to prevent it (omnipotent). I agree with all of this.

Others, also quoting scriptures point out that God is love (agreed), He is a merciful and good God (agreed), in Him is no darkness (agreed), His thoughts for us are good and not evil (agreed). How do you reconcile these two?

This is commonly known as the problem of evil and is a logical argument used by atheists to deny that God exists. Their argument is that the definition of God is that He is the creator of all things (agreed). Evil exists (agreed). Therefore God created evil (disagree and will explain). There are many ways that Christians try to squirm out of this and they are not scriptural. They make Satan (Lucifer was also created by God) into some kind of powerful being who has the ability to create evil and sin even though he is a created being by God (this does not change the fact that if evil exists, it was part of the creation that God created). For example the Bible says God cannot lie. How then could he create a universe in which there are lies and liars?

Therefore I wanted to open this thread up to Christians so that we could examine the scriptures and understand "How could God allow this to happen?"

Satan is a fallen angel who took many angels in rebellion against God, who is never responsible for the coronaviruses of the world. But how could a perfectly good angel decide to rebel against God, and how could sin have entered God's perfect universe. Neither sin nor Satan's rebellion is God's fault.

There is no biblical answer to those questions, because their answers are mysteries. A little glimpse, however, into a partial answer is found in Job 1 and 2, where Satan proposes tests of Job's faith. Notice there that though Satan's tests are extremely severe, God limits each one. The result is the theme of the book that true faith withstands all testing from the evil one.

The real question all believers must answer is whether we can submit to God's will even when the answers haven't been revealed. That test involves all the mysteries in the Bible, including the presence of sin and evil invading God's good creation, God's nature being three Persons in one God, and Jesus being all-God and all-human.

 

[ZNP]

There is no biblical answer to those questions, because their answers are mysteries.

Colossians 2:3 says that all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge are hidden in Him. I think that includes this particular mystery. see my posts #6, #14 and #20.

 

[ZNP]

So God is good, God created good things. But the things He created is so "good" that they are capable of disobey God's command, to create a big show for all to see. And that is why we call history His-Story, it is all a story, for all to see, for the good of the believers.

OK, but if God is omniscient He foresaw this, if He is omnipotent He had the power and authority to prevent evil, and if He is a morally perfect God He would not allow the sadistic and evil treatment of his creation. See my posts #6, #14 and #20. I think it is a Biblical response that a software engineer would appreciate.

 

[Salvadore]

So we have to look at the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, that is where man chose to disobey God's command.

 

[zoidar]

There have been many different threads which have asked this question about Corona virus. Many of the posters assert that God is the creator of all things (agreed) that He is omnipotent and omniscient (agreed) and that given these criteria coronavirus could not have taken place without His allowing it (agreed). He foresaw it would happen (omniscient), He created it (creator of all things) and He had the power to prevent it (omnipotent). I agree with all of this.

Others, also quoting scriptures point out that God is love (agreed), He is a merciful and good God (agreed), in Him is no darkness (agreed), His thoughts for us are good and not evil (agreed). How do you reconcile these two?

This is commonly known as the problem of evil and is a logical argument used by atheists to deny that God exists. Their argument is that the definition of God is that He is the creator of all things (agreed). Evil exists (agreed). Therefore God created evil (disagree and will explain). There are many ways that Christians try to squirm out of this and they are not scriptural. They make Satan (Lucifer was also created by God) into some kind of powerful being who has the ability to create evil and sin even though he is a created being by God (this does not change the fact that if evil exists, it was part of the creation that God created). For example the Bible says God cannot lie. How then could he create a universe in which there are lies and liars?

Therefore I wanted to open this thread up to Christians so that we could examine the scriptures and understand "How could God allow this to happen?"

Remember God created Lucifer, He didn't create Satan. Does that help?

 

[ZNP]

There is another "choice" that can be made in life that wasn't really a choice before the tree of Knowledge was put there and that is the choice to accept/love God and the choice to reject/not love God. I believe God wants us to love him and to truly love someone that may be allowed to "not love" that someone also.
One could in the end say that not loving God could be considered evil to him as to not love God means rejecting his love shown to us on the cross and to reject so great of a gift is IMO the ultimate evil.

I agree. I think the Tree of the Knowledge of good and evil has been maligned (our fellowship used to call it the tree of death). It was created by God, planted in the garden by God, and man was clearly given the choice to choose it or not, though there was a warning (like the warning on a cigarette pack) that if you do choose it you will die.

I think we have misunderstood that Death to be something evil or horrible. But if that is true Psalm 116 wouldn't make sense: Precious in the sight of the Lord Is the death of His godly ones.

 

[ZNP]

Remember God created Lucifer, He didn't create Satan. Does that help?

Do you believe God is omniscient? If so He foresaw that Lucifer would become Satan. Do you believe He is omnipotent? If so He could prevent any evil that you ascribe to Satan. Just like Truman, "the buck stops here". God is the creator, therefore He is responsible for His creation.

 

[Dave L]

I don't believe we are judged by Adam's sins but our own. I don't believe God corrupted his creation because of Adam's sin, I believe Adam's sin which allowed him choice over his world and allowed his offspring choice brought on the world we are in today. I believe if ALL of mankind turned to God today he would step in and clean up the mess gladly.

Paul refutes you in Romans 5.

 

[Sophrosyne]

Do you believe God is omniscient? If so He foresaw that Lucifer would become Satan. Do you believe He is omnipotent? If so He could prevent any evil that you ascribe to Satan. Just like Truman, "the buck stops here". God is the creator, therefore He is responsible for His creation.

I believe he is omniscient and I believe that he saw from the beginning all the way to the cross and beyond.
I believe that God created the world and everything because he saw all the people that wanted to love him all through history and felt it was worth it all.
You know the history of the Nobel Prize... is the Nobel responsible for how his creation was used both good and bad or not? Is God responsible for all evil even though he allows people to be evil? The problem is I believe that he allows evil, NOT creates it because it is an alternative choice to allowing love/good.
God wanted people to be with him forever to love him and for him to love them back and in order for them to love him they must be given a choice to also hate him (evil).
Is God responsible for Eve eating the apple because he saw her eating it in the future? If you were to know the evil a child of yours would do beforehand and didn't kill that child in birth are you responsible for the evil the child does when it grows up and is an adult?
I believe we are given a choice and just because we are a part of creation through Adam and procreation to make God responsible for everything...... ALL evil is the excuse ourselves to be allowed to sin at will and blame God for it all and some people do just that. Some people reject God because of the reasoning that he is the root of all evil and thus must be rejected when in fact he is the root of all good, and those who wish to oppose him are the creator of evil itself.

 

[Strong in Him]

He foresaw it would happen (omniscient), He created it (creator of all things)

I don't believe he created it.
He created man in his image, and he said that his creation was very good, Genesis 1:31.
Sickness came into the world when sin did. Mankind rebelled against, and disobeyed, their Creator - and from then on, they, and creation, were spoiled.

Besides, if God had created it, then the question of why did he let it happen is moot; it was something that he deliberately and purposefully made.

 

[ZNP]

I believe we are given a choice and just because we are a part of creation through Adam and procreation to make God responsible for everything...... ALL evil is the excuse ourselves to be allowed to sin at will and blame God for it all and some people do just that. Some people reject God because of the reasoning that he is the root of all evil and thus must be rejected when in fact he is the root of all good, and those who wish to oppose him are the creator of evil itself.

It seems difficult for me to tell someone that God is the creator of all things but is not responsible for creating Ted Bundy.

I think the explanation I gave in Posts #6, #14 and #20 answer this question you ask about "Is God responsible".

 

[Dave L]

It seems difficult for me to tell someone that God is the creator of all things but is not responsible for creating Ted Bundy.

I think the explanation I gave in Posts #6, #14 and #20 answer this question you ask about "Is God responsible".

How do you explain Hitler? God could have prevented both him and Bundy.

 

[ZNP]

How do you explain Hitler? God could have prevented both him and Bundy.

I've already explained it in Posts #6, #14 and #20. If you have questions about those let's talk.

 

[Dave L]

I've already explained it in Posts #6, #14 and #20. If you have questions about those let's talk.

No questions from me. I guess I'm more interested in the help Hitler received from "Christians". How would God play into this?

 

[Religiot]

There have been many different threads which have asked this question about Corona virus. Many of the posters assert that God is the creator of all things (agreed) that He is omnipotent and omniscient (agreed) and that given these criteria coronavirus could not have taken place without His allowing it (agreed). He foresaw it would happen (omniscient), He created it (creator of all things) and He had the power to prevent it (omnipotent). I agree with all of this.

Others, also quoting scriptures point out that God is love (agreed), He is a merciful and good God (agreed), in Him is no darkness (agreed), His thoughts for us are good and not evil (agreed). How do you reconcile these two?

This is commonly known as the problem of evil and is a logical argument used by atheists to deny that God exists. Their argument is that the definition of God is that He is the creator of all things (agreed). Evil exists (agreed). Therefore God created evil (disagree and will explain). There are many ways that Christians try to squirm out of this and they are not scriptural. They make Satan (Lucifer was also created by God) into some kind of powerful being who has the ability to create evil and sin even though he is a created being by God (this does not change the fact that if evil exists, it was part of the creation that God created). For example the Bible says God cannot lie. How then could he create a universe in which there are lies and liars?

Therefore I wanted to open this thread up to Christians so that we could examine the scriptures and understand "How could God allow this to happen?"

Atheists are fools.

"The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God." --Psalm 14:1

--Man cannot fly, yet he can build a plane. ...c'mon, folks, let's avoid their foolish questions about God:

"But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes." --2 Timothy 2:23

--All of the thoughts of the wicked, are without God!

"The wicked, through the pride of his countenance, will not seek after God: God is not in all his thoughts." --Psalm 10:4

If a man will not allow himself to realize, that there is a God, I assure you, that answering any of there questions about God, is a total waste of time.

The fool must chose to abandon his foolishness for himself, within himself; any other way, outside of the fool, to remove his foolishness, is a complete impossibility:

"Though thou shouldest bray a fool in a mortar among wheat with a pestle, yet will not his foolishness depart from him." --Proverbs 27:22

 

[nolidad]

There have been many different threads which have asked this question about Corona virus. Many of the posters assert that God is the creator of all things (agreed) that He is omnipotent and omniscient (agreed) and that given these criteria coronavirus could not have taken place without His allowing it (agreed). He foresaw it would happen (omniscient), He created it (creator of all things) and He had the power to prevent it (omnipotent). I agree with all of this.

Others, also quoting scriptures point out that God is love (agreed), He is a merciful and good God (agreed), in Him is no darkness (agreed), His thoughts for us are good and not evil (agreed). How do you reconcile these two?

This is commonly known as the problem of evil and is a logical argument used by atheists to deny that God exists. Their argument is that the definition of God is that He is the creator of all things (agreed). Evil exists (agreed). Therefore God created evil (disagree and will explain). There are many ways that Christians try to squirm out of this and they are not scriptural. They make Satan (Lucifer was also created by God) into some kind of powerful being who has the ability to create evil and sin even though he is a created being by God (this does not change the fact that if evil exists, it was part of the creation that God created). For example the Bible says God cannot lie. How then could he create a universe in which there are lies and liars?

Therefore I wanted to open this thread up to Christians so that we could examine the scriptures and understand "How could God allow this to happen?"

Well we do know that God in His omniscience and omnipotence did allow this.

But what most believers forget is that once God created the universe He also had created what we call the natural laws to govern the universe. (gravity, thermodynamics etc.) When Adam fell the entire universe was cursed as we know form Gen. 3 and Romans 8. So little tiny orgsanisms became viruses and things that were created "good" (Genesis1) now started becoming "ungood". IOW things started mutationg and came under the laws God set in place to govern His creation. The covid-19 virus is simply a natural result of a fallen world and things mutating in that fallen world and affecting the fallen in habitants in a fallen world.

 

[setst777]

Do you believe God is omniscient? If so He foresaw that Lucifer would become Satan. Do you believe He is omnipotent? If so He could prevent any evil that you ascribe to Satan. Just like Truman, "the buck stops here". God is the creator, therefore He is responsible for His creation.

God could just as easily have created the angels with free will as well. While God created them perfect, as Scripture states, that does not mean that, by their own choice Lucifer and 1/3 of the other angels couldn't have fallen by choosing to disobey God. Perfection does not guarantee faithfulness.

God knew this would happen, but allowed it to happen because God will not sacrifice free will just so no one will fall from grace or disobey Him.

God punished the angels who fell, and they will be thrown into the Lake of Fire when all things are complete. But for those who did not disobey, God honors and counts worthy to be with Him in His Kingdom with all the rewards, blessings, and promises that go with that Kingdom forever.

As well, God is even using the sin of those angels who fell, as part of His Salvation Plan... For instance, during Jesus' ministry Satan tried to prevent Jesus from carrying out His Plan, and it was Satan entering Judas by which Jesus was delivered to the Romans to be crucified for our sins. As well, in the Book of Revelation, Satan and his demons fulfill a vital roll in Salvation.

Blessings.

 

[Sophrosyne]

It seems difficult for me to tell someone that God is the creator of all things but is not responsible for creating Ted Bundy.

I think the explanation I gave in Posts #6, #14 and #20 answer this question you ask about "Is God responsible".

One could say like the Bible says.... God created everything in the beginning, and created it all to be self sustaining and corruption (sin) has caused the Bundy's of the world to exist.

 

[ZNP]

Atheists are fools.

"The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God." --Psalm 14:1

--Man cannot fly, yet he can build a plane. ...c'mon, folks, let's avoid their foolish questions about God:

"But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes." --2 Timothy 2:23

--All of the thoughts of the wicked, are without God!

"The wicked, through the pride of his countenance, will not seek after God: God is not in all his thoughts." --Psalm 10:4

If a man will not allow himself to realize, that there is a God, I assure you, that answering any of there questions about God, is a total waste of time.

The fool must chose to abandon his foolishness for himself, within himself; any other way, outside of the fool, to remove his foolishness, is a complete impossibility:

"Though thou shouldest bray a fool in a mortar among wheat with a pestle, yet will not his foolishness depart from him." --Proverbs 27:22

Agreed, but I think it is good to be prepared to give an account. I also think investigating truths like the Tree of knowledge, and death are very important.