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jcright

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How comfortable do you feel correcting your pastor?

There was a song that we sang sometime ago. I didn't particulary care for one of the lines so I e-mailed my concern to the Worship Arts Pastor. My sister thinks I'm brave for doing so.

Anyone else feel free to correct your pastor if you see/hear a mistake?
 

ZiSunka

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I dropped by the Wed night services at the church down the street from my house. Just about every word the pastor spoke was a lie. He even lied about the content of the Bible (Romans 12:1 is not about patriotism and there is no Psalm 151). After the service, I went to speak to him and said that although I understand his motive, lying never serves God. He said that telling white lies to make a point is okay. I said that it isn't and he told me not to come back to his church. I didn't.

With my own pastor, he is very easy to talk to and if I want to talk to him about something he said, I will email him and ask him questions to clarify what I heard. He opens the word and shows me Biblically what he is talking about. I have learned to really respect him because he always goes back to the Bible as his source and final say.
 
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SumTinWong

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Additional Psalm 151
Superscription

1 This psalm was written by David himself (even though it lies outside the accepted number of psalms)
after he fought single-handedly with Goliath.
The Lord’s Selection of David
I was the smallest among my brothers,
and the youngest in my father’s household.
I used to take care of my father’s sheep.

2 My hands constructed a musical instrument;
my fingers tuned a harp.

3 Who will announce this to my Lord?
The Lord himself—he is listening.

4 He himself sent his messenger
and took me from my father’s sheep,
and anointed me with his anointing oil.

5 My brothers were handsome and big,
but the Lord was did not approve of them.
David’s Victory over Goliath

6 I went out to meet the foreigner;
he called down curses on me by his idols.

7 But I pulled out his own sword;
I beheaded him and thereby removed reproach from the Israelites.


Although this psalm is not accepted as canonical by Jews, Catholics, or Protestants, it is usually included in Greek Bibles

As it stands in the Greek text this apocryphal psalm celebrates David’s rise from humble beginnings to become a famous figure in ancient Israel. After describing David’s boyhood life as a shepherd and his surprising selection by the Lord (vv. 1-5), this psalmist emphasizes David’s role as a hero responsible for the defeat of the giant Goliath who mocked the Israelite army (vv. 6-7). As such the psalm assumes familiarity with and draws ideas and phraseology from certain portions of biblical material (e.g., 1 Sam 16-17; Ps 78:70-72; 89:20; cf. 2 Sam 6:5; 2 Chr 29:26). Although in the early part of the twentieth century H. B. Swete had to acknowledge that “there is no evidence that it [i.e., Psalm 151] ever existed in Hebrew” (H. B. Swete, Introduction to the Old Testament in Greek, 253), we now know from the Dead Sea scrolls that this psalm did in fact exist in Hebrew and was actually a part of the psalter used by the Qumran community. Psalm 151 appears along with a number of canonical and non-canonical psalms in 11QPsa, a first century A.D. scroll discovered in 1956. (The editio princeps of this manuscript first appeared in J. A. Sanders, “Ps. 151 in 11QPss,” ZAW 75 [1963]: 73-86, and was slightly revised in J. A. Sanders, ed., The Psalms Scroll of Qumrân Cave 11 (11QPsa), DJD 4, 54-64. On details of translation, structure, and meaning of this psalm see especially the following: P. W. Skehan, “The Apocryphal Psalm 151,” CBQ 25 [1963]: 407-09; W. H. Brownlee, “The 11Q Counterpart to Ps 151,1-5,” RevQ 4 [1963]: 379-87; J. Carmignac, “La forme poétique du Psaume 151 de la grotte 11,” RevQ 4 [1963]: 371-78; J. Carmignac, “Précisions sur la forme poétique du Psaume 151,” RevQ 5 [1965]: 249-52; J. Strugnell, “Notes on the Text and Transmission of the Apocryphal Psalms 151, 154 (= Syr. II) and 155 (= Syr. III),” HTR 59 [1966]: 257-81; I. Rabinowitz, “The Alleged Orphism of 11QPss 28 3-12,” ZAW 76 [1964]: 193-200; A. Dupont-Sommer, “Le Psaume CLI dans 11QPsa et le problème de son origine essénienne,” Semitica 14 [1964]: 25-62. On the Qumran evidence for the Psalter in general see the following: P. W. Flint, The Dead Sea Psalms Scrolls and the Book of Psalms, STDJ 17 [Leiden: Brill, 1997].)

In the Qumran Hebrew scroll Psalm 151 actually consists of two separate poems that have been brought together; they are now known as Psalm 151A and Psalm 151B (which is only partially preserved). The Hebrew form of the psalm is thus quite different from that known previously through Greek, Latin, and Syriac translations. In some ways the Greek version of Psalm 151 does not seem to make good sense, and the Hebrew text provides a basis for a better understanding what transpired in the creation of the Greek version. It appears that two earlier psalms have been brought together in the Greek version in such a way that their original structure and even meaning have been modified to a significant degree. In comparison to the Hebrew text Sanders regards the Greek text of this psalm to be in places “desiccated,” “meaningless,” “truncated,” “ridiculous,” “absurd,” “jumbled,” and “disappointingly different,” all this the result of its having been “made from a truncated amalgamation of the two Hebrew psalms” (see J. A. Sanders, The Dead Sea Psalms Scroll, 94-100). The present translation is based on the Göttingen edition of the Greek text, but with attention given especially to the Qumran evidence and to the Syriac translation. (The Leiden edition presents two Syriac texts for this psalm, the first being that of a number of west Syrian liturgical Psalters, and the other being that of certain east Syrian biblical manuscripts. References to the Syriac translation in the present notes have the second of these two Syriac texts in view.)
 
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Monica02

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jcright said:
How comfortable do you feel correcting your pastor?

There was a song that we sang sometime ago. I didn't particulary care for one of the lines so I e-mailed my concern to the Worship Arts Pastor. My sister thinks I'm brave for doing so.

Anyone else feel free to correct your pastor if you see/hear a mistake?

I have never corrected my pastor because he is very aloof and frankly rarely says anything incorrect, but I did flip-out once when we had a priest speaker who tried to defend keeping partial birth abortion legal. I did not even wait for him to call on me (he probably would not have because I have written to the bishop about him before and I think he might know me by sight). I just blurted out "There is a difference between "life of the mother" and "health of the mother". A person would have to be really stupid to think that there is any health benifit for a mother to kill her baby while it is being born. How on earth could killing a late term baby save a mother's life?" This priest is sooooooooo arrogant ----yuuuk, I do not think he liked being called stupid. His lecture (full of nonsense) was not received well by the audience and he left early-saying he had another engagement. Good riddance.
 
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ZiSunka

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I see. I don't think this pastor was quoting from the dead sea scrolls, especially since his "Psalm 151" was about the God-given values of democracy and the great nation of USA. He said it talked about a great nation that would rise up and establish freedom around the world. Although, I guess you could make that application from the psalm you posted.
 
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SumTinWong

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lambslove said:
I see. I don't think this pastor was quoting from the dead sea scrolls, especially since his "Psalm 151" was about the God-given values of democracy and the great nation of USA. He said it talked about a great nation that would rise up and establish freedom around the world. Although, I guess you could make that application from the psalm you posted.
I don't know where he got his materia, and I am saying this is a legit Psalm of David as I don't know that much about it. It is in the NET Bible (online version) which is the only reason i knew of it's existance.

I do agree with you by the way on the points you mentioned above about what that preacher was teaching.
 
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DiscipleOfIAm

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I recently sent an email correcting a former pastor. I never got a response back from him. It was in referral to the "Hell on Earth" hoax. The one where scientists supposedly dug on the bottom of the ocean and placed microphones and sound equipment there. They recorded screams and chains dragging. He thought it was real and talks about how Hell physically exists on earth. Anyway, I sent him the hoax proof and never heard back from him.

That brings up another question my wife has always asked. Do pastors enjoy listening to other pastor's sermons? Or do they secrelt critique them and their theology? Example, if you are a pastor and you've spent your life studying God's Word and preaching, when you retire do you really get anything out of church or do you already know it all and know it better?

I told her that just like reading a book over again, there is always something you missed.

God Bless
 
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Ave Maria

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lambslove said:
I see. I don't think this pastor was quoting from the dead sea scrolls, especially since his "Psalm 151" was about the God-given values of democracy and the great nation of USA. He said it talked about a great nation that would rise up and establish freedom around the world. Although, I guess you could make that application from the psalm you posted.
Well, I personally think this guy needs to be exposed to his congregation. It's sad that the church members haven't noticed such fallacies.
 
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Ave Maria

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I think that with some pastors but definitely not all, pride is a major issue. This can be a huge block to correcting them when they are wrong. They have the education and they know it. Of course, they're just human and I can easily see how something like that might go to one's head.
 
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rural_preacher

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DiscipleOfIAm said:
That brings up another question my wife has always asked. Do pastors enjoy listening to other pastor's sermons? Or do they secrelt critique them and their theology? Example, if you are a pastor and you've spent your life studying God's Word and preaching, when you retire do you really get anything out of church or do you already know it all and know it better?

I told her that just like reading a book over again, there is always something you missed.

God Bless
We pastors need to fed too. I definitely enjoy listening to other preachers. I learn, I'm motivated, I'm persuaded to change. That's what preaching should do for every listener including other preachers. My father preached for more than fifty years and he never tired of listening to other preachers to the day he died.

For instance, conferences are a refreshing time for pastors because we are always feeding our flocks and at conferences we get to be fed.

I think you will find that most pastors continue to enjoy the spiritual meal of other's sermons...they are not simply critiquing or evaluating.

--
 
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jcright

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I know Lamb already answered this: Would you feel comfortable correcting a pastor from another church?

For some reason, I'm not. I know I should be able to do it without fear, but I'm not at that point. I've been to two services recently where I should have said something. One was at a church for Carin'as friend. The speaker was way off on his message and I knew it...in fact, I don't even know what the point of his message was. I was stunned by the fact that no else either new it or seemed to care. It was a different denomination so I came here to CF to see what people from that denom thought and they backed me up. Anyhow, I never said anything to the speaker but I did write a letter to Carina's friend explaining what the scripture means.

The second message was at a Baptist church we were visiting. Honestly, I more or less fell asleep so I didn't hear anything. Carina repeated everything to me later. I didn't bother to send a letter to that Pastor though I really should have.
 
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Cright

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jcright said:
I know Lamb already answered this: Would you feel comfortable correcting a pastor from another church?

For some reason, I'm not. I know I should be able to do it without fear, but I'm not at that point. I've been to two services recently where I should have said something. One was at a church for Carin'as friend. The speaker was way off on his message and I knew it...in fact, I don't even know what the point of his message was. I was stunned by the fact that no else either new it or seemed to care. It was a different denomination so I came here to CF to see what people from that denom thought and they backed me up. Anyhow, I never said anything to the speaker but I did write a letter to Carina's friend explaining what the scripture means.

The second message was at a Baptist church we were visiting. Honestly, I more or less fell asleep so I didn't hear anything. Carina repeated everything to me later. I didn't bother to send a letter to that Pastor though I really should have.
sorry for the delayed reply - I'm just now seeing this thread for the first time.

It's a good point. wierd that I've never even THOUGHT of correcting a pastor outside of my church, or in it for that matter.

When you went to the pastor for the song that was the first time I'd known anyone to do it personally. I always thougth if something 'bothered' someone that they should speak to the person that bothered them.. for some reason I'm so passive I never took it upon myself to speak of things that bothered me.

I should have gone with you to speak to the person at my friends church and encouraged 'truth' with you.

I should have also written a letter to the pastor of the church we visited together since I did hear all of his message :wink: too.

to answer your question, I do believe that it's appropriate to correct someone speaking false teachings (out of laziness, or belief or whatever) when you witness it happening. Especially if it's obvious like the times we saw.

Carina
 
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C.I. Scofield

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lambslove said:
I dropped by the Wed night services at the church down the street from my house. Just about every word the pastor spoke was a lie. He even lied about the content of the Bible (Romans 12:1 is not about patriotism and there is no Psalm 151). After the service, I went to speak to him and said that although I understand his motive, lying never serves God. He said that telling white lies to make a point is okay. I said that it isn't and he told me not to come back to his church. I didn't.
I hate to say it, I would have done the same thing. Although, I don't condon his lying, and yes, he was lying... but you coming at him with an attitude, which it did sound like you had one, was just as wrong. Most Pastor's don't take too kindly to some stranger coming into thier Church and telling them how to do thier jobs. It's just simply human nature. and for what it's worth, Psalms 151 was NEVER accepted as Cannonized Scripture.

With my own pastor, he is very easy to talk to and if I want to talk to him about something he said, I will email him and ask him questions to clarify what I heard. He opens the word and shows me Biblically what he is talking about. I have learned to really respect him because he always goes back to the Bible as his source and final say.
This is prolly because he's too nice to tell you to quit correcting him.

Not to be mean. But I speak the truth.

and By the way...:

He even lied about the content of the Bible (Romans 12:1 is not about patriotism
It's not. It talking about Christian Life and Service, more specifically Consecration.


CIS
:preach:
 
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12volt_man

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I've known my pastor since long before he was a pastor, back when he was still a new Christian.

So I'm in kind of a unique situation in that, even though I've decided to put myself under his teaching, we have a closer and much more informal relationship than most people have with their pastors.

About two years ago, he said some things in his message that amounted to modalism.
Another man in the church and I approached him about this.

The three of us reviewed the tape of that morning's message and decided that his mistake was a rhetorical one, not a doctrinal one. He did follow orthodox teachings on the Trinity and the nature of God but, in an attempt to make a complex thing simple, he simply misspoke.

The next Sunday, he got up and apologized, repented and spent the next 45 minutes correcting his mistake. It ended up being one of the most brilliant messages concerning the nature of God and the divinity of Christ I've ever heard.
 
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daveleau

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jcright said:
How comfortable do you feel correcting your pastor?

There was a song that we sang sometime ago. I didn't particulary care for one of the lines so I e-mailed my concern to the Worship Arts Pastor. My sister thinks I'm brave for doing so.

Anyone else feel free to correct your pastor if you see/hear a mistake?


I'd be very hesitant to correct my pastor. I would feel very comfortable asking him after the service about the issue to see what his thinking was. I'd pose my concern in the form of a non-threatening question to ask what his intent was. If I disagreed, I'd ask something like "well How does that relate to what this passage says?"
 
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