How Christ became superfluous

graysparrow · Apr 12, 2006

CaDan said:
1. Go float the idea that "Baptists are Protestants" over in Baptists/Anabaptists. Bet you get some interesting arguments!

Most certainly.

CaDan · Apr 12, 2006

Redwolf said:
No Christian kills for Christ. It is not required.

True. Too bad so many do it, though.

Redwolf said:
It is, however, required to kill for Mahomet, or Allah.

Off to NCR for that, please.

Redwolf said:
Just because the house flies Christ's banner, doesn't mean He is in residence.

The Son of Man has nowhere to lay his head . . . .

Redwolf · Apr 12, 2006

jckstraw72 said:
and what does any of this have to do with the possibility of salvation for individual Muslims?

and yes, i know about Islam, im a religious studies major.

Why do you leave out the ONLY essential part?
Individual muslims who avail themselves of the Saviour, Jesus, have as great a chance as any.

Redwolf · Apr 12, 2006

graysparrow said:
Try again yourself,

nobody says protestants are doomed...

and if you disagree you can denounce Miguel de Luis y Espinosa (that's me) to my bishop

unlike you I have much to lose

Really? No one?

Source: Papal Bull

Unam Sanctam, by Pope Boniface VIII, 1302.

The most Holy Roman Church firmly believes, professes and preaches that none of those existing outside the Catholic Church, not only pagans, but also Jews and heretics and schismatics, can have a share in life eternal; but that they will go into the eternal fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels, unless before death they are joined with Her; and that so important is the unity of this ecclesiastical body that only those remaining within this unity can profit by the sacraments of the Church unto salvation, and they alone can receive an eternal recompense for their fasts, their almsgivings, their other works of Christian piety and the duties of a Christian soldier. No one, let his almsgiving be as great as it may, no one, even if he pour out his blood for the Name of Christ, can be saved, unless he remain within the bosom and the unity of the Catholic Church.

Show me a church document that says otherwise.

Redwolf · Apr 12, 2006

CaDan said:
True. Too bad so many do it, though.

Off to NCR for that, please.

The Son of Man has nowhere to lay his head . . . .

You like Kueng?

QuantaCura · Apr 12, 2006

These are my favorite threads:

"Catholics believe [insert myth]!!"

"Um, no we don't."

"Yes you do! See here:" [cut and paste out of context statement with anti-Catholic commentary from crazy website]

"Um, that's not what that is saying." [explains true meaning of statement within the context of Catholic Tradition]

"No, I know more about your religion than you or the pope!" [spoken ex cathedra computatralis (from the computer chair) to ensure infalliblilty]

[rinse and repeat.]

Redwolf · Apr 12, 2006

CaDan said:
Come on in!

We got bingo!

bin dere don dat

QuantaCura · Apr 12, 2006

Redwolf said:
Really? No one?

Source: Papal Bull

Unam Sanctam, by Pope Boniface VIII, 1302.
The most Holy Roman Church firmly believes, professes and preaches that none of those existing outside the Catholic Church, not only pagans, but also Jews and heretics and schismatics, can have a share in life eternal; but that they will go into the eternal fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels, unless before death they are joined with Her; and that so important is the unity of this ecclesiastical body that only those remaining within this unity can profit by the sacraments of the Church unto salvation, and they alone can receive an eternal recompense for their fasts, their almsgivings, their other works of Christian piety and the duties of a Christian soldier. No one, let his almsgiving be as great as it may, no one, even if he pour out his blood for the Name of Christ, can be saved, unless he remain within the bosom and the unity of the Catholic Church.

Show me a church document that says otherwise.

I knew it was only a matter of time . Awww, I hadn't edited my bingo card in time to include it

QuantaCura · Apr 12, 2006

Protestants who are Baptised into Christ and are not culpable for schism, heresy, or apostacy (which only God can judge) are united to the Church and therefore by definition are subject to the Roman Pontiff (even if they don't realize it) and may therefore be saved

CaDan · Apr 12, 2006

[size=+3]
BINGO!

[/size]

We have achieved Unam Sanctum!

BTW, the answer to your challenge is, of course, Lumen Gentium and Nostra Aetate. But you don't like those either.

Anyway, I have a bingo. Woot! $25.00 gift certificate at St. Patrick's Guild!

I'm gonna get me a big ol' Celtic cross!

QuantaCura · Apr 12, 2006

We believe that Jesus gave authority to St. Peter and His successors (you may not) and therefore to culpably reject he who Jesus gave authority to would be to reject Jesus ("He who rejects you, rejects Me.") Again though, God will judge our hearts as to whether or not folks are culpable. Most people who have been raised in other traditions and are less educated as to Catolic belief are less likely to be culpable (ie most protestants) .

CaDan · Apr 12, 2006

Redwolf said:
You like Kueng?

Nah . . . .

Redwolf · Apr 12, 2006

CaDan said:
Nah . . . .

Didn't think so.

Redwolf · Apr 12, 2006

QuantaCura said:
We believe that Jesus gave authority to St. Peter and His successors (you may not) and therefore to culpably reject he who Jesus gave authority to would be to reject Jesus ("He who rejects you, rejects Me.") Again though, God will judge our hearts as to whether or not folks are culpable. Most people who have been raised in other traditions and are less educated as to Catolic belief are less likely to be culpable (ie most protestants) .

That gets me right here...........
points at mid-section

CaDan · Apr 12, 2006

QuantaCura said:
"No, I know more about your religion than you or the pope!" [spoken ex cathedra computatralis (from the computer chair) to ensure infalliblilty]

[rinse and repeat.]

On the internet, no one knows you're not the Pope.

Or the Pope's no good brother-in-law from Tulsa.

Yeah, that's it. I'm Charlie Daniels "CaDan" Ratzinger!

Redwolf · Apr 12, 2006

QuantaCura said:
Protestants who are Baptised into Christ and are not culpable for schism, heresy, or apostacy (which only God can judge) are united to the Church and therefore by definition are subject to the Roman Pontiff (even if they don't realize it) and may therefore be saved

Is that true?

[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif] "Remember and understand well that where Peter is, there is the Church; that those who refuse to associate in communion with the Chair of Peter belong to Antichrist, not to Christ. He who would separate himself from the Roman Pontiff has no further bond with Christ." Pope Leo XIII, Satis Cognitum, quoted in "Acts of Leo XIII: Supreme Pontiff", Rome: Vatican Press, 1896, (quoted in Apostolic Digest, by Michael Malone, Book 4: "The Book of Christians", Chapter 4: "There is No Allegiance to Christ Without Submission to the Pope").[/FONT]

QuantaCura · Apr 12, 2006

Redwolf said:
Is that true?

[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]"Remember and understand well that where Peter is, there is the Church; that those who refuse to associate in communion with the Chair of Peter belong to Antichrist, not to Christ. He who would separate himself from the Roman Pontiff has no further bond with Christ." Pope Leo XIII, Satis Cognitum, quoted in "Acts of Leo XIII: Supreme Pontiff", Rome: Vatican Press, 1896, (quoted in Apostolic Digest, by Michael Malone, Book 4: "The Book of Christians", Chapter 4: "There is No Allegiance to Christ Without Submission to the Pope").[/FONT]

Yeah, again, context and the subtleties and nuance of theology are not your strong point.

You have to put this into the same context which reveals that neither the Church nor any Pope has ever declared any individual to be definitely damned. This above is the same as St. Paul (or was it Jesus) saying murders and fornicators cannot enter the kingdom of God. The admonition against judging the hearts of men and condemning must be balanced against it. St. Paul never said any individual was definitely doomed because he could not judge the secrets of the hearts of men.

Again, culpability is implied in Leo XIII's statement as well as St. Paul's. (by the way, you don't happen to have a link to the entire document you quoted do you?)

CaDan · Apr 12, 2006

Satis Cognitum:

http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/l...hf_l-xiii_enc_29061896_satis-cognitum_en.html

I can't find that passage.

QuantaCura · Apr 12, 2006

CaDan said:
Satis Cognitum:

http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/leo_xiii/encyclicals/documents/hf_l-xiii_enc_29061896_satis-cognitum_en.html

I can't find that passage.

Anti-Catholic webmasters should be required to take a course in citations. I guess there is no Bluebook for that field

JCrawf · Apr 12, 2006

Redwolf said:
you set the criteria for bashing.
that is not acceptable.

Sorry, but I fail to see where Mea Culpa is doing anything more than asking for a person to consider the call to love. Didn't see anywhere where the person was trying to imply any set criteria for anything else.

Pax Tecum,

John

How Christ became superfluous

My life is for the kids who have it rough

I remember orange CF

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Rejoice always.

Rejoice always.

I remember orange CF

Rejoice always.

I remember orange CF

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I remember orange CF

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Rejoice always.

I remember orange CF

Rejoice always.

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