How can we know if God is speaking vs. our own minds?

[tturt]

We're never going to be a 100% accurate but with practice we can improve our percentage. You know you don't come up with the yes or no response yourself.

"My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me." John 10:27

 

[CrystalDragon]

Crystal Dragon - I'm afraid your question is two steps ahead of Christianity right now.

At least someone gets it—I feel like my questions fall on either deaf ears or people who cover their ears or sidestep the questions most of the time.

We're never going to be a 100% accurate but with practice we can improve our percentage. You know you don't come up with the yes or no response yourself.

"My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me." John 10:27

People have followed what they thought was God's voice and they did terrible things.

 

[tturt]

It's not just us hearing and acting on it. Sorry my posts were not complete.

It's checking what we heard. Foremost there's Holy Scripture, The Holy Spirit, prayer, spiritual discernment, confirmation (Acts 9;9-19 especially v 10-12; II Cor 13:1), and Godly counsel (Prov 11:14).

 

[Albion]

Well, those early Church fathers are not on par with Holy Scriptures, but throughout the early centuries in combating the several Christological and Pneumatological heresies that arose, their writings were instrumental in defining the Faith of the Church.

That's certainly so, but this is something that could be said of innumerable theologians, bishops, teachers, and witnesses to church happenings through the years. To say that the "Church Fathers" are more than that or unimpeachable in whatever some of them have written or endowed with divine authority is going too far.

But if you now say that they are NOT on a par with Scripture, the point may be moot. That's not what I understood you to be saying in your earlier post ("God pretty exclusively speaks to us through His Word: Scripture, and the commentaries on Scripture found in the writings of the ancient fathers of the Church").

 

[Emli]

We can ask ourselves questions that have yes or no answers as well and get an answer. And sometimes we hear an answer that one might think is from God but it ends up not working out. Again, how can we know?
But thing is how can we know if what we hear is relying on God? How can we tell it's not just our own minds?

Let me say it like this: we cannot tell if it's God or not, because a human cannot discern it on our own. However, the Spirit teaches us how to do it. By praying, being still and listening to the Spirit, eventually we will learn how to recognize His voice. He has to reveal his presence to us first. He does this when we obey His commandments. John 14:21

We are told to test all the spirits. 1 John 14:3 The passage refers to false prophets, but since false prophets are created by Satan's lies, this passage can be applied to ourselves as well.

We cannot ask a question, and then listen for a voice. Our brains will just make something up. We have to wait for God. Sometimes it takes a while, and He teaches through Scripture mostly, and through experience and trials. And through mistakes.

It comes with practice. We get to know Him better through reading His word, prayer and most of all doing the commandments. Then it will just happen easily, and God will make it clear to you that it is Him. He is not a God of confusion.

 

[tturt]

There you have it - asks a question and expect an answer or don't expect an answer. So if you're needing to know whether to turn right or left at the next traffic light and need His help right then, the choice is yours - asks and don't expect an answer or expect Him to answer.

 

[CrystalDragon]

Let me say it like this: we cannot tell if it's God or not, because a human cannot discern it on our own. However, the Spirit teaches us how to do it. By praying, being still and listening to the Spirit, eventually we will learn how to recognize His voice. He has to reveal his presence to us first. He does this when we obey His commandments. John 14:21

We are told to test all the spirits. 1 John 14:3 The passage refers to false prophets, but since false prophets are created by Satan's lies, this passage can be applied to ourselves as well.

We cannot ask a question, and then listen for a voice. Our brains will just make something up. We have to wait for God. Sometimes it takes a while, and He teaches through Scripture mostly, and through experience and trials. And through mistakes.

It comes with practice. We get to know Him better through reading His word, prayer and most of all doing the commandments. Then it will just happen easily, and God will make it clear to you that it is Him. He is not a God of confusion.

But "being still and listening to the Spirit"
has the same problem. People are able to think of things on their own when they get quiet and think, so how can we tell if it's the Spirit or our own minds?

 

[JoeP222w]

To the original question: By testing it in accordance with the scripture, the inerrant word of God.

If it disagrees with any part of scripture, it is not from God.

 

[truefiction1]

That's certainly so, but this is something that could be said of innumerable theologians, bishops, teachers, and witnesses to church happenings through the years. To say that the "Church Fathers" are more than that or unimpeachable in whatever some of them have written or endowed with divine authority is going too far.

But if you now say that they are NOT on a par with Scripture, the point may be moot. That's not what I understood you to be saying in your earlier post ("God pretty exclusively speaks to us through His Word: Scripture, and the commentaries on Scripture found in the writings of the ancient fathers of the Church").

Given what has come from individual readings of Scripture without any consideration of the faith of the ancient fathers, I think I'll stick with considering what the fathers have had to say as being sort of a guide. For example, one thing that the fathers did was to compose a statement of Christian belief, which we read, or sing, in Church to this day. This is the Creed. The Creed protects against interpretations of Scripture that lead to an understanding that the Christ is no the Divine Word of the Father, of one essence with Him. The Fathers fought this heresy, called "Arianism", which was the production of an Alexandrian priest whose own interpretation of Scripture was that the Christ was the first "created" being. There are those today whose own reading of Scripture leads them to this conclusion. Some of these people are members of this very forum. These would do well to read the fathers. They should start with the polemical works of St. Athanasius the Great.

 

[Albion]

Given what has come from individual readings of Scripture without any consideration of the faith of the ancient fathers, I think I'll stick with considering what the fathers have had to say as being sort of a guide. For example, one thing that the fathers did was to compose a statement of Christian belief, which we read, or sing, in Church to this day. This is the Creed.

But that's the doing of the wider church, not the select group called "the Fathers."

 

[tturt]

I'm not referring to different interpretations of Scripture. One thing we need is answers to questions that aren't addressed in Scripture. Scripture says we can hear His voice. If we didn't need to hear His voice, Scripture would say just keep reading and studying and you'll realize the answer to your questions.

If we have the mindset we can't hear His voice and/or more fearful that we're miss it, we need to pray and asks Yahweh to help us believe His Word.

 

[Albion]

I'm not referring to different interpretations of Scripture. One thing we need is answers to questions that aren't addressed in Scripture.

Why would we? What makes us think that God somehow failed to make his revelation correct or complete in Scripture?

If we didn't need to hear His voice, Scripture would say just keep reading and studying and you'll realize the answer to your questions..

It's said that over 400 times in the Bible we find the words “thus says the Lord.” The Bible is also described as proceeding from the mouth of God, as in Matthew 4:4.

 

[tturt]

Yahweh doesn't fail us.

If your doctor recommends surgery, you just do it without asking Yahweh. If you have a trip planned but somehow you don't feel "right" about following through, you don't asks Yahweh? If your child is telling you about a bully and sometimes they exaggerate, you don't asks Yahweh what to do?

btw, the results of each one of these questions can mean life or death.

 

[FireDragon76]

That's certainly so, but this is something that could be said of innumerable theologians, bishops, teachers, and witnesses to church happenings through the years. To say that the "Church Fathers" are more than that or unimpeachable in whatever some of them have written or endowed with divine authority is going too far.

But if you now say that they are NOT on a par with Scripture, the point may be moot. That's not what I understood you to be saying in your earlier post ("God pretty exclusively speaks to us through His Word: Scripture, and the commentaries on Scripture found in the writings of the ancient fathers of the Church").

In Lutheranism the Church Fathers actually have a role in recognizing the layers of authority of various Scriptures. We have the homolegomena/antilegomena distinction, for instance. It's not simply like the Reformed understanding that the Scriptures themselves are self-authenticating. I find this to be a higher view of the Church's authority, one that is more appealing to me.

The biblical inerrantist position of many modern evangelicals, on the other hand, actually renders the Bible unintelligible, because it starts with the Bible rather than Christ as the divine revelation.

 

[NothingIsImpossible]

I tend to say if the speaking tells me to do something unbiblical, then its not Him. If the voice makes me feel some sort of hesitation or guilt, its not Him. THOUGH... sometimes I know He may have us do something we are uncomfortable with, so being hesitant could be nerves. Like I am a shy person who can't handle crowds or attention. So if He put on my heart to share my testimony at church, I'd panic. But He always has a reason for what He asks.

Now even with all that said it doesn't mean I know for sure its Him. Earlier in life I would confuse my "inside voice" as Him sometimes.

 

[Albion]

I tend to say if the speaking tells me to do something unbiblical, then its not Him. If the voice makes me feel some sort of hesitation or guilt, its not Him. THOUGH... sometimes I know He may have us do something we are uncomfortable with, so being hesitant could be nerves. Like I am a shy person who can't handle crowds or attention. So if He put on my heart to share my testimony at church, I'd panic. But He always has a reason for what He asks.

All right, but this is what was posted:

One thing we need is answers to questions that aren't addressed in Scripture. Scripture says we can hear His voice.

You see, that refers to NEW revelation. That's not what you're describing.

 

[truefiction1]

But that's the doing of the wider church, not the select group called "the Fathers."

That is actually not correct. The wider Church was in turmoil over the Arian controversy, with many either not knowing what the Church actually believed or even worse, accepting the Arian teaching. The Church's understandings were discussed and defined by Church leaders at ecumenical councils. These councils and their proclamations have been a large part of forming Christian Tradition, which believes in God as a Triunity of Divine Persons.

I understand your concern, and your objections. We don't hold any mere man to be infallible. But like it or not, we do indeed have fathers in the Gospel. St. Paul the Apostle even said so in the Word of God, so the Word of God says it is so. The Word of God instructs us regarding these in Hebrews 13:7.

 

[Albion]

That is actually not correct. The wider Church was in turmoil over the Arian controversy, with many either not knowing what the Church actually believed or even worse, accepting the Arian teaching.

Very well, the WHOLE church wasn't initially on the same page, but the councils were not gatherings of those people revered today as "the Church Fathers."

 

[S.O.J.I.A.]

if what you are hearing doesn't match of with Scripture then you did not hear anything from the LORD.

 

[Left]

if what you are hearing doesn't match of with Scripture then you did not hear anything from the LORD.

But if it does, can we be certain that it does?:

Let me give an example. A good cop bad spirit tells you everything Biblical except for the last thing it tells you, and just the last thing it tells you is really evil, to make you think it was all from God and God wants you to do X.