How can we know if God is speaking vs. our own minds?

[tturt]

So if it's not in white and black in Scripture, we don't need Yahweh's help with things such as posted #33 above? Is that what you're saying? We don't need His help or He can't help us?

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

I think that if we try and seek God's voice we might end up getting other voices that pretend to be God and might be quite unsavory. I have heard of people thinking they are hearing God's voice and when they have done what it told them they have gone into serious error, sometimes causing great damage to their church and the body of Christ in general. We have seen big-name preachers claiming to hear God's voice and presenting themselves as someone special and closer to God than the common herd, and yet they have been committing adultery with their mistress or mishandling the finances.

My view is that when God speaks, there is no doubt about it, but I don't hang around waiting for it. God gave us a brain and the ability to think things through, look at the alternatives and plan what is the best path to follow. The Scripture says that man may plan his way but God directs His steps. Another verse says for us to commit our way to the Lord, lean not to our understanding. and He will guide our path. Some have perverted that verse to teach that we should not trust our own decision-making ability but to do things in blind faith, listening to mental voices and impressions. I think that not leaning to our understanding means that when we encounter closed doors, contrary circumstances, we don't give up and lose hope, but we go to the Lord and acknowledge that He is Lord and He will make a way for us. Then we consider all our alternatives and press on in faith believing that God will make a way for us, even create one if necessary.

I have found in my experience that I have been quite free to do what I think is right and appropriate in the decisions I have had to make. I have sensed a red, amber, or green light about things, and an amber light in me means to be very careful about a doubtful decision, a red light means, don't go there, and a green light means that I can have confident that I am making the right decision. The scripture says that mature believers by means of experience are able to discern between good and evil, or right and wrong. So, a novice in the faith may need more direct guidance from the Holy Spirit, but a mature believer has developed a discernment between what would be a good or bad decision. I have done things against my better judgement (discernment) and have messed up and God has had to bail me out. But there are other decisions which I have felt are right, and they have been a blessing to me.

The scripture says that we should not be led around like a mule that needs a bit and a bridle. People who are waiting for voices and impressions or some discipler to tell them what to do before making decisions is like a mule that has to be led that way. I believe that when we walk in the light with Jesus, the Holy Spirit makes sure that we keep on the path. My view is that there is an "electric fence" on each side of the path and if I stray over to the right or the left, I get a jolt of conviction that I am straying and in danger of getting off the path. Maybe guidance is like an airplane coming into the airport on instruments and is following the heads-up display in front of the pilot to show him the glide path to ensure that he is pointed in the right direction and coming down at the right height and speed. I believe the Bible is that indicator.

 

[Emli]

But "being still and listening to the Spirit"
has the same problem. People are able to think of things on their own when they get quiet and think, so how can we tell if it's the Spirit or our own minds?

It's just a feeling I guess. You just know that it's Jesus. When He talks to you through His word, then it's the same presence. You are not to listen for words, but rather a different way of thinking. Like there is something beautiful transforming your thought patterns. It's what makes you able to love God. It cries out "Father". Or when someone hurts you, and you feel a sudden urge to forgive them. It's that feeling. Hope, love and a longing for Jesus. It's deep within you. He dwells in your spirit, not in your brain.

After I was saved, I just felt the Holy Spirit. There was this new, strange feeling and conviction within me. I didn't know what it was at first, but I could tell that it was holy and different from anything I've felt before. (until I read about the Holy Spirit in the Bible, and then I was like whaaaaat?!?)

You have to ask God to teach you. Pray about it everyday. Tell Jesus that you give Him access to all of your thoughts, and fill you with His Spirit. Just stay committed to Him, and He will teach you.

 

[CrystalDragon]

It's just a feeling I guess. You just know that it's Jesus. When He talks to you through His word, then it's the same presence. You are not to listen for words, but rather a different way of thinking. Like there is something beautiful transforming your thought patterns. It's what makes you able to love God. It cries out "Father". Or when someone hurts you, and you feel a sudden urge to forgive them. It's that feeling. Hope, love and a longing for Jesus. It's deep within you. He dwells in your spirit, not in your brain.

After I was saved, I just felt the Holy Spirit. There was this new, strange feeling and conviction within me. I didn't know what it was at first, but I could tell that it was holy and different from anything I've felt before. (until I read about the Holy Spirit in the Bible, and then I was like whaaaaat?!?)

You have to ask God to teach you. Pray about it everyday. Tell Jesus that you give Him access to all of your thoughts, and fill you with His Spirit. Just stay committed to Him, and He will teach you.

But one person might hear the Spirit tell them one thing, and the other another contradictory thing. Not to mention people might think it's Jesus when it's actually not. And I'm sure other people of other religions get that "hopeful and longing feeling", not toward Jesus but toward (insert some mythical deity here)

 

[tturt]

-Saul went to the prophet to asks for help locating donkeys (I Sam 9)
-Several asks Yahweh for children such as Hannah (I Sam 1)
-Tax money found in fish's mouth (Matt 17).
-loaves and fishes to feed thousands (Matt 14)
-Solomon asks for wisdom (I Kings 3)
ETC

They ask for Yahweh's help concerning a variety of situations.

 

[Left]

I think that if we try and seek God's voice we might end up getting other voices that pretend to be God and might be quite unsavory. I have heard of people thinking they are hearing God's voice and when they have done what it told them they have gone into serious error, sometimes causing great damage

I just think anything speaking to you can be dangerous, based on my experience: it might be a demon.

 

[NothingIsImpossible]

All right, but this is what was posted:

You see, that refers to NEW revelation. That's not what you're describing.

Well this whole topic depends on ones denomination really.

 

[Emli]

I think that if we try and seek God's voice we might end up getting other voices that pretend to be God and might be quite unsavory. I have heard of people thinking they are hearing God's voice and when they have done what it told them they have gone into serious error, sometimes causing great damage to their church and the body of Christ in general. We have seen big-name preachers claiming to hear God's voice and presenting themselves as someone special and closer to God than the common herd, and yet they have been committing adultery with their mistress or mishandling the finances.

My view is that when God speaks, there is no doubt about it, but I don't hang around waiting for it. God gave us a brain and the ability to think things through, look at the alternatives and plan what is the best path to follow. The Scripture says that man may plan his way but God directs His steps. Another verse says for us to commit our way to the Lord, lean not to our understanding. and He will guide our path. Some have perverted that verse to teach that we should not trust our own decision-making ability but to do things in blind faith, listening to mental voices and impressions. I think that not leaning to our understanding means that when we encounter closed doors, contrary circumstances, we don't give up and lose hope, but we go to the Lord and acknowledge that He is Lord and He will make a way for us. Then we consider all our alternatives and press on in faith believing that God will make a way for us, even create one if necessary.

I have found in my experience that I have been quite free to do what I think is right and appropriate in the decisions I have had to make. I have sensed a red, amber, or green light about things, and an amber light in me means to be very careful about a doubtful decision, a red light means, don't go there, and a green light means that I can have confident that I am making the right decision. The scripture says that mature believers by means of experience are able to discern between good and evil, or right and wrong. So, a novice in the faith may need more direct guidance from the Holy Spirit, but a mature believer has developed a discernment between what would be a good or bad decision. I have done things against my better judgement (discernment) and have messed up and God has had to bail me out. But there are other decisions which I have felt are right, and they have been a blessing to me.

The scripture says that we should not be led around like a mule that needs a bit and a bridle. People who are waiting for voices and impressions or some discipler to tell them what to do before making decisions is like a mule that has to be led that way. I believe that when we walk in the light with Jesus, the Holy Spirit makes sure that we keep on the path. My view is that there is an "electric fence" on each side of the path and if I stray over to the right or the left, I get a jolt of conviction that I am straying and in danger of getting off the path. Maybe guidance is like an airplane coming into the airport on instruments and is following the heads-up display in front of the pilot to show him the glide path to ensure that he is pointed in the right direction and coming down at the right height and speed. I believe the Bible is that indicator.

I believe this is true. I was in need of a lot of direct guidance in the beginning, and then things just started getting easier. What you are describing is what I have experienced as well.

But here is what I've learned and believe. Discernment, understanding and wisdom comes from God, through the Holy Spirit. It is He who guides your thought patterns, not yourself (I hope). You just are so used to it, that you can't tell the difference by now. That is how it should be. This is how we deal with everyday life decisions. And that is how His sheep hears His voice.

But I want to be more in tune to His voice when I pray, which is almost always, because I cannot live without Him. I want Him to direct my life fully, in big and small decisions, and always teach me. And I have committed everything to Him, and have asked Him to take all of my life and use it for His will. So when I listen to Him, I can get closer to Him. I've found that I can have conversations with Him through the Spirit, and feel His presence and holiness easier if I'm in tune with Him. I've found that I can grow much faster this way, because He can convict me easier, and I never have to worry if it's Him, because I know Him so well by now. This kind of connection comes with time though, and it requires a lot of sacrifice.

 

[Albion]

Well this whole topic depends on ones denomination really.

Denominations do differ on the point, but the point stands on its own, I'd think. Either the Scriptures are God's revelation and nothing is to be added to them OR, if not that, we believe that personal revelation, latter day prophets, or something else is a valid addition to the Bible's information.

It looked to me initially that the first of these was the real issue; but later it looked like the issue was really whether or not God would guide his people in everyday, personal, decisions, not in amending the Bible (in effect). That's what 'tturt' was describing.

If that's the idea, it wouldn't be about adding to or supplementing the Scriptures from which we, as Christians, take our doctrines.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

But one person might hear the Spirit tell them one thing, and the other another contradictory thing. Not to mention people might think it's Jesus when it's actually not. And I'm sure other people of other religions get that "hopeful and longing feeling", not toward Jesus but toward (insert some mythical deity here)

In that case, ignore the voices, impressions and feelings, and use your own common sense. If you have more intelligence than a mule, then you should know the difference between a good or bad decision. If you don't have enough information to make a decision about something, get on to Google like I do and find out more about it. Then you can be better informed to make the best decision for you.

When I decided to learn to pay the banjo and I couldn't afford to buy one, I decided to make my own. I failed woodwork at school, so I didn't have much confidence about being able to make a good one. But I looked up on Youtube and saw many videos about how to make banjos and cigar box guitars. I made my first one out of a bit of pine for the neck and a cookie tin. I bought tuners, and made my own bridge. It was the worst constructed banjo neck ever made, but it was playable! Since then I bought better tools, found a mate who had a bandsaw to cut and shape banjo necks, learned how to cut and install frets, and now I have several instruments that I can use to perform in public. I have been a guitarist since I was 19, so learning banjo chords was relatively easy. I know five chords and can play in two keys after six months. I have used one of my banjos to sing and play in a country music group. I had a guitar pickup laying around and so I made an electric banjo to go around it.

What I am saying here is that I didn't sit around waiting for a voice or something to guide me. I started using my noodle, and what I didn't know, I went to Google and Youtube to find out the best way of constructing the instrument. Sure I made mistakes. I kept the first banjo neck I made as a memorial to show what I started with and what I have progressed to.

I think that in every decision we make - religious or secular, we need to adopt the same practice. If God doesn't like it or wants to take us in a different direction, He will do it and we will follow. But in normal circumstances, we have a brain and common sense which He is quite happy for us to follow.

P.S. God has a way of blessing us and showing that He likes what we are doing in very practical ways. After I had made several banjos (5 string tambourine, 4 string tambourine, 4 string Indian drum) a friend at church gave me a banjo that was in his storeroom unused for years. I put a new set of strings on it, cleaned it up, and now I have a "real" banjo as well! If that friend had given me the banjo before I made my own, I wouldn't have had the wonderful experience and achievement of knowing that I could do good woodwork projects. So God is very wise and supportive when He wants to bless us.

 

[Emli]

But one person might hear the Spirit tell them one thing, and the other another contradictory thing. Not to mention people might think it's Jesus when it's actually not. And I'm sure other people of other religions get that "hopeful and longing feeling", not toward Jesus but toward (insert some mythical deity here)

I don't really know how to explain bit, but I will try. I know God's voice, simply because the things He does for me coincides with what He tells me. I have also realized Biblical Truth "on my own", without reading Scripture first. That's how I learnt to listen to Him. God has done this for me because I am, or at least I try to be, 100% committed to doing His will.

Most people aren't committed. They live in sin. Maybe not in public, but in private. God will not speak to them like He speaks to me and others who are truly His. They still try to listen to Him, but are doing it wrong. FIRST we get to know Him through Scripture and prayer, and THEN we learn to hear His voice. We don't just hear it, and although it can be, it's rarely audible.

I've had other religions, and other affections in life, and yes, there are longings, hope, love, all of it. It's human emotions. But that purity, that holiness, that perfect love, you can't find that anywhere else but in Jesus. And if we transform into His image, then it's His voice we hear.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

I believe this is true. I was in need of a lot of direct guidance in the beginning, and then things just started getting easier. What you are describing is what I have experienced as well.

But here is what I've learned and believe. Discernment, understanding and wisdom comes from God, through the Holy Spirit. It is He who guides your thought patterns, not yourself (I hope). You just are so used to it, that you can't tell the difference by now. That is how it should be. This is how we deal with everyday life decisions. And that is how His sheep hears His voice.

But I want to be more in tune to His voice when I pray, which is almost always, because I cannot live without Him. I want Him to direct my life fully, in big and small decisions, and always teach me. And I have committed everything to Him, and have asked Him to take all of my life and use it for His will. So when I listen to Him, I can get closer to Him. I've found that I can have conversations with Him through the Spirit, and feel His presence and holiness easier if I'm in tune with Him. I've found that I can grow much faster this way, because He can convict me easier, and I never have to worry if it's Him, because I know Him so well by now. This kind of connection comes with time though, and it requires a lot of sacrifice.

I have learned to just relax and take life as it comes. I have confidence that God lets me know what He wants me to know. I have found that when I have prayed and asked questions or made comments, the exact right verse of scripture comes to mind that confirms it. I find that remarkable and I am amazed at how quick and often it happens. I have also gone to my bookcase, picked out a book that I may have bought six months ago and never read, and then found when I did read it, it had the exact right message for me at that time. I have gone to my favorite Christian second hand bookshop, been drawn to certain books and found that they have been exactly right for what I have needed to know. I am convinced that when we rest in Him, He makes sure that we have the knowledge we need to live successfully for Him. If we are trying too hard to find God's will for us, then we are trying too hard. When we rest in Him, the wisdom from above just descends quietly and filters into our hearts and minds.

 

[Emli]

In that case, ignore the voices, impressions and feelings, and use your own common sense. If you have more intelligence than a mule, then you should know the difference between a good or bad decision. If you don't have enough information to make a decision about something, get on to Google like I do and find out more about it. Then you can be better informed to make the best decision for you.

When I decided to learn to pay the banjo and I couldn't afford to buy one, I decided to make my own. I failed woodwork at school, so I didn't have much confidence about being able to make a good one. But I looked up on Youtube and saw many videos about how to make banjos and cigar box guitars. I made my first one out of a bit of pine for the neck and a cookie tin. I bought tuners, and made my own bridge. It was the worst constructed banjo neck ever made, but it was playable! Since then I bought better tools, found a mate who had a bandsaw to cut and shape banjo necks, learned how to cut and install frets, and now I have several instruments that I can use to perform in public. I have been a guitarist since I was 19, so learning banjo chords was relatively easy. I know five chords and can play in two keys after six months. I have used one of my banjos to sing and play in a country music group. I had a guitar pickup laying around and so I made an electric banjo to go around it.

What I am saying here is that I didn't sit around waiting for a voice or something to guide me. I started using my noodle, and what I didn't know, I went to Google and Youtube to find out the best way of constructing the instrument. Sure I made mistakes. I kept the first banjo neck I made as a memorial to show what I started with and what I have progressed to.

I think that in every decision we make - religious or secular, we need to adopt the same practice. If God doesn't like it or wants to take us in a different direction, He will do it and we will follow. But in normal circumstances, we have a brain and common sense which He is quite happy for us to follow.

P.S. God has a way of blessing us and showing that He likes what we are doing in very practical ways. After I had made several banjos (5 string tambourine, 4 string tambourine, 4 string Indian drum) a friend at church gave me a banjo that was in his storeroom unused for years. I put a new set of strings on it, cleaned it up, and now I have a "real" banjo as well! If that friend had given me the banjo before I made my own, I wouldn't have had the wonderful experience and achievement of knowing that I could do good woodwork projects. So God is very wise and supportive when He wants to bless us.

Edit: sorry, my phone's screen jumps back and forth and I read the wrong response. I removed what I wrote, but can't you delete a post?

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Well, I'm not talking about asking God how to make a banjo. I'm talking about moral and spiritual matters. Like how I can help people in need, or what I should say when I tell people about Christ. How I can grow in Christ and be perfected. This should, and has to, come from the Spirit. This is the part where we are not allowed to lean on our own understanding. We are supposed to be led by the Spirit always, and never to quench it.

It's all the same. Doesn't matter whether you are asking God to guide you spiritually, what church to go to, what gift to use, how to counsel someone, what decision to make, what educational course to do, what type of employment, what to do in your leisure time. It's all the same. Walking with Jesus involves our whole lives, whether we are at church, at home, out filling our faces in a restaurant, going to a movie, or at work. I gave the example of making a banjo because I firmly believe that because I want to use it for Christian music ministry, He helped me with the skills, directed me to the right tools, and gave my wife elastic patience when I spent hours in the workshop making them. Don't be so heavenly minded that you become of no earthly use. Of course, I know that some are so earthly minded they are of no heavenly use either!

 

[Emli]

I have learned to just relax and take life as it comes. I have confidence that God lets me know what He wants me to know. I have found that when I have prayed and asked questions or made comments, the exact right verse of scripture comes to mind that confirms it. I find that remarkable and I am amazed at how quick and often it happens. I have also gone to my bookcase, picked out a book that I may have bought six months ago and never read, and then found when I did read it, it had the exact right message for me at that time. I have gone to my favorite Christian second hand bookshop, been drawn to certain books and found that they have been exactly right for what I have needed to know. I am convinced that when we rest in Him, He makes sure that we have the knowledge we need to live successfully for Him. If we are trying too hard to find God's will for us, then we are trying too hard. When we rest in Him, the wisdom from above just descends quietly and filters into our hearts and minds.

Oh, I agree with you. He does the same for me. I'm constantly amazed! He also speaks in the most amazing coincidences sometimes (today He spoke to me with a Coca-Cola capsule). I know that He is for me and with me always. That's why I always talk to Him and send Him thoughts, through my understanding ans awareness.

I find that I don't want a normal life. I'm not really trying anything, but rather I'm following His voice. He has made it clear to me that this is what He wants for me. To pray in the Spirit on all occasions. He responds to the smallest prayers that I pray in the back of my mind as well. The way I live is not for everyone, but it is perfect for me.

 

[Emli]

It's all the same. Doesn't matter whether you are asking God to guide you spiritually, what church to go to, what gift to use, how to counsel someone, what decision to make, what educational course to do, what type of employment, what to do in your leisure time. It's all the same. Walking with Jesus involves our whole lives, whether we are at church, at home, out filling our faces in a restaurant, going to a movie, or at work. I gave the example of making a banjo because I firmly believe that because I want to use it for Christian music ministry, He helped me with the skills, directed me to the right tools, and gave my wife elastic patience when I spent hours in the workshop making them. Don't be so heavenly minded that you become of no earthly use. Of course, I know that some are so earthly minded they are of no heavenly use either!

Please re-read my post I changed it.

 

[CrystalDragon]

Oh, I agree with you. He does the same for me. I'm constantly amazed! He also speaks in the most amazing coincidences sometimes (today He spoke to me with a Coca-Cola capsule). I know that He is for me and with me always. That's why I always talk to Him and send Him thoughts, through my understanding ans awareness.

I find that I don't want a normal life. I'm not really trying anything, but rather I'm following His voice. He has made it clear to me that this is what He wants for me. To pray in the Spirit on all occasions. He responds to the smallest prayers that I pray in the back of my mind as well. The way I live is not for everyone, but it is perfect for me.

How did he speak to you with a Coca-Cola capsule?

 

[Emli]

How did he speak to you with a Coca-Cola capsule?

About two weeks ago, I was going through some stuff and was feeling a lot of condemnation. I was scared that I was doing something wrong, and that God was really angry at me. As I sat down to eat lunch at a restaurant, I thought to myself: "God is angry at me". But then my co-worker removed the capsule on my Coke bottle, and it said "We're cool!" I felt God's peace in the spirit and then just felt at ease again. It helped a lot.

Today, I am not struggling as much anymore, but I'm instead trying to focus on His love for me. I was at the same restaurant, and when my co-worker removed the capsule, I had the sudden thought that God would speak to me like that again. The capsule said:

<3 U

I love Him! And I kept the capsule

 

[Albion]

Do you think the next person would have received a different message from that Coke if you'd decided on coffee at the last moment?

 

[Emli]

Do you think the next person would have received a different message from that Coke if you'd decided on coffee at the last moment?

Probably not I don't think God wrote the message on the capsule. He probably just arranged the situation for me.