How can we combat the common myth that "guys just aren't wired to be sensitive"?

[Edo2]

In some things - yes.

Husbands love your wives...
Wives respect your husbands ...

Interestingly - there is no command (other than the general "love one another.." for a wife to love her husband.

My wife and I did a bible plan that addressed that. They seemed to think respect is something that is more important to a man than love.

I don't agree with it. I think love and respect go together.

 

[mkgal1]

He wants a reassurance that he can handle it: "Walk it off!" That's actually a male-to-male act of comfort: "Am I strong enough?" "Yes, you are!"

What that is is called "numbing" and dismissing another person's pain. It's cultural language that leaves men with the inability to deal with all sorts of pain and difficulty in life. It's a way that disconnects male brains from their hearts and leaves them with the inability to empathize with others (and to be in touch with their own inner struggles). It's toxic, actually.

I work with teenagers, and I've noted that when a young man makes a really stupid decision, it's almost always about respect--to gain respect, to prevent disrespect, to be worthy of respect.

But when a young woman makes a really stupid decision, it's almost always about love--to gain love, to prevent being unloved, to be worthy of love.

Such things have not changed in two thousand years.

Husbands love your wives...
Wives respect your husbands ...

Interestingly - there is no command (other than the general "love one another.." for a wife to love her husband.

I think love and respect go together.

I agree with Edo. That whole idea of separating love and respect leaves a "love" that's more like condescension and not genuine love.....and respect more like catering to pride and hubris (which is enabling sin).

 

[mkgal1]

Have you all seen the GQ interview with Brad Pitt? He actually had a lot of insightful things to say that go along well with this thread. For instance:

And here he is, alone, a 53-year-old human father/former husband smack in the middle of an unraveled life, figuring out how to mend it back together.

Metaphors are my life.
You strip down to the foundation and break out the mortar. I don't know. For me this period has really been about looking at my weaknesses and failures and owning my side of the street. I don't know where it comes from, this hollow quest for justice for some perceived slight. I can drill on that for days and years. It's done me no good whatsoever. It's such a silly idea, the idea that the world is fair. And this is coming from a guy who hit the lottery, I'm well aware of that. I hit the lottery, and I still would waste my time on those hollow pursuits.

That's the thing about becoming un-numb. You have to stare down everything that matters to you.
That's it! Sitting with those horrible feelings, and needing to understand them, and putting them into place. In the end, you find: I am those things I don't like. That is a part of me. I can't deny that. I have to accept that. And in fact, I have to embrace that. I need to face that and take care of that. Because by denying it, I deny myself. I am those mistakes. For me every misstep has been a step toward epiphany, understanding, some kind of joy. Yeah, the avoidance of pain is a real mistake. It's the real missing out on life. It's those very things that shape us, those very things that offer growth, that make the world a better place, oddly enough, ironically. That make us better.

...but, let me quess, GQ isn't "Christian manliness" enough?

Pete Scazzero says much the same things Brad Pitt said, here:

Journey through the Wall. Walls, or as the ancients called it “the dark night of the soul” are times in our spiritual journey God stops us through crisis or circumstances beyond our control. These are times when God deeply transforms us and our understanding of Him.  The Wall closely relates to our theme for today – Grief and Loss.

Our culture routinely interprets losses as alien invasions that interrupt our “normal” lives. Jonathan Edwards, in a famous sermon on the book of Job, noted that the story of Job is the story of us all. Job lost everything in one day—his 10 children die suddenly in a natural disaster. He loses all his wealth – even though he is one of the richest people in the world, and he loses his health to such an extent that he is physically unrecognizable. That happens to some of us.

But most of us experience our losses more slowly, over the span of a lifetime, until we find ourselves on the door of death, leaving everything behind – all our relationships, all our possessions, all our health. We lose our youthfulness. No amount of plastic surgery, cosmetics, good diet or exercise routine can stop the process of growing older. We lose our dreams. Who has not lost dreams, dreams of a career or marriage or children for which we hoped? We experience loss in transitions of life. Each time we change jobs, or move is a loss. Our children grow more independent as they move through their life transitions. Our influence and power decreases as we grow older.

Most of us, in one or more moments of our lives, experience catastrophic loss. Unexpectedly, a family member dies. A friend or son commits suicide. A spouse has an affair. We find ourselves single again after a painful divorce or breakup. We are diagnosed with cancer. Our company suddenly downsizes and we find ourselves unemployed after 25 years. Our child is born severely handicapped. A loyal friend betrays us. We experience infertility, miscarriages, broken friendships, mental illness, abuse in our childhoods. They are all losses.

We grieve the many things we can’t do, our limits. Some people, like me, “lost a leg in that war” in their family of origin growing up and now walk with a limp. We even lose our wrong ideas of God and the church. We find out that certain ideas we had about Jesus and what it meant to follow Him are inadequate, foolish—maybe even wrong. We feel betrayed by a church tradition, a leader, or even God himself. We lose our illusions about the church. We discover it is not the perfect family with perfect people as we expected. In fact, people disappoint us. At times, we are bewildered and shocked. Every person who lives in community with other believers, sooner or later, experiences this disillusionment and the grief that accompanies it. We all face many deaths within our lives. The choice is whether these deaths will be terminal (crushing our spirit and life) or open us up to new possibilities and depths of transformation in Christ.~http://www.emotionallyhealthy.org/w...-Enlarge-Your-Soul-through-Grief-and-Loss.pdf

....and also the same message here:

It all comes down to loving and being loved. That seems similar to Jesus' summation of what's most important when He said, "Love the Lord you God with all your heart, all your soul, all your strength, and all your mind.' And, 'Love your neighbor as yourself.'"

 

[mkgal1]

.....and more about how this numbing puts a lot of men/boys at a social/relational disadvantage:

The only two emotions men are allowed to feel and why it's a problem.
May 04, 2015 / Zach Rawlings

It’s the answer I probably hate most when I ask a question: I don’t know. And as a therapist who works a lot with men and adolescent boys, I seem to get it a lot.

Me: Why do you think you responded that way?

Male Client: I don’t know.

Me: Did that response serve you in any way?

Male Client: I don’t know.

Me: How did you feel afterwards?

Male Client: Fine.

It’s a painful conversation. And sometimes I can feel my patience running thin when the dialogue has gone on like this for most of the session. However, my empathy has expanded significantly in recent years as I’ve sought to understand this interesting dynamic when men are asked about emotional experiences.

There are two main emotions that men seemingly feel most of the time: anger and apathy. It frustrates many when they try to emotionally connect with a male only to be met with hostility or indifference. It drives many to believe that men are simple, ignorant creatures who have no feelings or emotional intelligence. But is that really true? Do men really only feel anger or apathy? I find this hard to swallow. And that’s because it isn’t true.

First, we must look at the history of what we understand to be traditional masculinity and the ways deemed acceptable for men to relate to one another. In the 19th century, men in America had much more latitude to be affectionate and caring with other men. Don’t believe me? Just take a look at these pictures:

(Photos taken from Picturing Men by John Ibson, 2006)

No, these men aren’t expressing their repressed homosexual desires. This was a common way men engaged and showed affection to one another during this time. So what happened? Why are men afraid to show emotion today when they were so affectionate with each other not so long ago? A lot happened.

E. Anthony Rotundo explains the complicated history of male friendship in his book American Manhood. In the 20th century, many religious leaders and politicians began to decry homosexuality as being incompatible with true masculinity. And in the 1950’s, homosexuality was seen to be closely associated with Communism. That was enough to scare any guy into keeping his hands off other dudes. The Industrial Revolution also encouraged men to view one another as competition instead of friends. ~
The only two emotions men are allowed to feel and why it's a problem.

.....so it all seems to be driven by fear (to me).

 

[LinkH]

When I read the subject title, I thought men could respond to it by burping loudly, calling the person who said it, 'melonhead' and laughing with a hardy masculine laugh.

If 'sensitive' means getting ones feelings hurt easily, well, some men are sensitive and some aren't. But it's not a good thing to be sensitive in this way.

Can men be empathetic and caring and all that, men can do that without doing it in a feminine way? We can throw the phrase 'your feminine side' out of our vocabularies. I always hated that phrase. It implies a man can't be caring, nurturing, etc. as a man, as if women own those things. And it's just kind of a gross thing to say.

We can also point to Christ Who is loving and had compassion on people. He is the archetype of a man, the one men should imitate to know how to be a man.

 

[mkgal1]

If 'sensitive' means getting ones feelings hurt easily, well, some men are sensitive and some aren't. But it's not a good thing to be sensitive in this way.

I agree. That variety of "sensitive" is not positive for either gender. You're right. I think I'd call that "entitled" just to avoid confusion (or "prickly"--like a porcupine--for a less formal word ).

Can men be empathetic and caring and all that, men can do that without doing it in a feminine way? We can throw the phrase 'your feminine side' out of our vocabularies. I always hated that phrase. It implies a man can't be caring, nurturing, etc. as a man, as if women own those things. And it's just kind of a gross thing to say.

We can also point to Christ Who is loving and had compassion on people. He is the archetype of a man, the one men should imitate to know how to be a man.

I agree again (just wondering about the one phrase, however: "men can do that without doing it in a feminine way". What would a "feminine" way even BE?).

I never thought I'd agree with you so emphatically as I do about your statement that "we can throw the phrase 'your feminine side' out of our vocabularies". Absolutely!

I really detest how modern (seems to be more Protestant) churches are giving the impression that empathy and compassion are female traits. You're right---we need to look to Jesus to see that's not so at all. There's also been many other men throughout history that can show the lack of truth behind that (some of us are fortunate enough to even have an earthly father that disproves that myth).

 

[mkgal1]

On this topic.....this book by Nate Pyle is online (at the moment) for just $1.99 in the Kindle version. I've not read this specific book of his, but I do read his blog. I can safely say I'd recommend it.
https://www.amazon.com/Man-Enough-J...95323193&sr=8-1&keywords=man+enough+nate+pyle

 

[MarcMP]

Dear MKGal1,

I have many thoughs on this subject:

• The way to "combat" this myth is to understand a few points:
• We are Human first, then Gender.
• What was our up bringing and enviroment when we grew up?
• Some men are sensitive, As some women are not sensative

I grew up around more women that men. I am a emotionaly sensative person, but the key is I am not afraid to express and communicate emotions.

The women i have dated. One ex-wife, and a current wife. They are more logical, and struggle to express their feelings.

So, to conclude.There are boys and men that are sensative, but are not allowed to let that gift blossom.
The way to "combat" this in many ways may be through conferences and siminars.

 

[mkgal1]

The way to "combat" this in many ways may be through conferences and siminars.

I would absolutely LOVE it if there were even just ONE such conference/seminar making it's way around Protestant Conservative churches---instead what we have, sadly, are things like Love & Respect and Laugh Your Way to a Better Marriage (that only create a divide and misunderstanding---if not all out allowance for abuse).

 

[MarcMP]

Good Morning,

Your correct, if there was one place to allow presentation .It takes one movement to get a ball rolling. Keep in mind, a person can have both roles. My career as an EMT had brought me countless experiences and events daily but yet I can remain nurturing. Is this question you share on this post also asked by others in your life ?

 

[mkgal1]

Keep in mind, a person can have both roles. My career as an EMT had brought me countless experiences and events daily but yet I can remain nurturing

Can you elaborate on what you mean by "a person can have both roles"? I'm not surprised you can remain nurturing in your job. I believe as Christ followers we are ALL to be nurturing (caring for others; empathetic; desiring to live in harmony)---isn't that what the fruit of the Holy Spirit yields? I don't see anywhere in the Bible that's divided up to where women have certain caring traits and men don't (just as you seem to be saying) .

 

[ChristopherK]

This came up recently in another thread---that only a few guys have the courage to actually develop (and admit to) being "sensitive".....but isn't that really the whole foundation of following Christ--to love one another as He loves us? Doesn't that take sensitivity.....compassion.....empathy....leaving egos behind?

How can we encourage these attributes in men when we're up against such a strong belief in this idea that "to be male" means "one shouldn't be sensitive"?

I think in today's post-modern culture, men are more effeminate than masculine, and if they are masculine it's a definition by the world's standard of "live sexually immoral, be successful in work, and be defined by your worldly success." I think biblical manhood is a healthy balance of courage and sensitivity.

Jesus wasn't that herbal essence shampoo model we see in paintings. He was God who, while in the flesh, worked with His hands as a mason. He never minced His words when it came to the Pharisees and religious leaders of the day, but also spoke with compassion to the sick, gentiles, children, and pretty much any sinner who knew they were sinners.

Men don't need to be overly sensitive, but they need to learn how to manage themselves both as courageous and compassionate. That's the hard part I believe; balance.

 

[mkgal1]

men are more effeminate than masculine,

How--specifically--are you defining that, though (effeminate and masculine)?

I think biblical manhood is a healthy balance of courage and sensitivity.

So.....if a woman is courageous, would you consider her to be "masculine"? What about Abigail....Deborah...Mary of Nazareth....Esther....Rahab...Jael.....and the woman that's only named as "one wise woman" in 2nd Samuel 20?

Men don't need to be overly sensitive, but they need to learn how to manage themselves both as courageous and compassionate. That's the hard part I believe; balance.

Shouldn't compassion be a part of everything (and shouldn't women also need to learn a certain balance between when to confront and when to offer grace)?

 

[MarcMP]

When I step into the role as an EMT, there are many sights, odors, and sounds that are not pleasant. To complete certain unpleasant tasks I have to shut the empathy mode down to accomplish a task, and once finished , return to the empathetic mode.