How can we combat the common myth that "guys just aren't wired to be sensitive"?

mkgal1

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Third-wave feminist claim nothing is different but the plumbing, and that "gender is a social construct."
Okay....well, since no one is present here with that belief (unless they speak up)....let's just assume that NO ONE here is asserting that idea that "men and women are identical" (besides....you may be misunderstanding---I don't know). There's a difference between saying "gender is a social construct" and saying that "men and women are identical psychologically/emotionally".
 
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mkgal1

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Certainly a man is going to have an emotion identifiable as "frightened" about the chances of his child's life being in danger, just as a man is able to identify the color red, but that doesn't mean his reactions are identical to that of a woman, nor is "red" as a man sees it necessarily the same as "red" as a woman sees it.
I'm just going to wait for an example that demonstrates the difference between a man's version of sensitive and a woman's (as if there's two distinct varieties). This is what I was hoping you'd respond to:

mkgal said:
Can you give an example where "sensitive" would mean one thing for a man---and another if the person were female?

I just finished watching a Jimmy Kimmel video--and I would classify his demeanor as "sensitive". I can't see that as being so different from how a woman would have behaved:
 
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RDKirk

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One difference is in how males and females comfort one another in distress. A man in distress wants to hear from another man reassurance that he has the strength to overcome:

"Courage, man! The hurt cannot be much!" -- Romeo to Mercutio, "Romeo and Juliet," Act 3, Scene 1.

A man may be run through with a sword, but he doesn't want his buddy to say, "Aw, geez, guy, that's bad!" He wants a reassurance that he can handle it: "Walk it off!" That's actually a male-to-male act of comfort: "Am I strong enough?" "Yes, you are!"

But when my wife or daughter tells me she has a pain, I certainly can't say, "It's probably not bad, you'll get over it." That's not what they want to hear to comfort their distress. It's not better or worse, it's just different.

Mark Gungor gives some funny differences. One is that males compartment their reactions to a much greater degree than women to. Men more often contemplate situations in much narrower contexts. Because of that, a situation may lead a woman to a greater level of reaction than a man simply because the woman has placed it into a wider context than the man has. This is not better or worse, it's just different.

 
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mkgal1

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One difference is in how males and females comfort one another in distress. A man in distress wants to hear from another man reassurance that he has the strength to overcome:
So.....all men respond the same as each other....and all women can also be categorized and placed in the same "box" as far as their behaviors/responses? Have you actually seen that to be true in your life? You don't know women that would like to hear that they have the strength to overcome something?

I'm not a fan of Mark Gungor.....sorry (but not sorry). I have a strong aversion to stereotypes. I honestly don't understand how men can appreciate his "humor"--to me, it really seems to degrade men and women both.
 
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mkgal1

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http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2015/11/brains-men-and-women-aren-t-really-different-study-finds

So how to explain the idea that males and females seem to behave differently? That too may be a myth, Joel says. Her team analyzed two large datasets that evaluated highly gender stereotypical behaviors, such as playing video games, scrapbooking, or taking a bath. Individuals were just as variable for these measures: Only 0.1% of subjects displayed only stereotypically-male or only stereotypically-female behaviors.
 
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NothingIsImpossible

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This is a complicated subject really. As time has gone on women seem to act less like the stereotypes would say they do. Maybe its because of the rise of feminism. It helped them break out of the stereotypes. Helped them learn they are not restricted by some rules of being sensitive, emotional, fragile...etc. Now there are lots of strong women who aren't like that compared to decades ago. Or maybe women were never fully fragile to begin with and it had more to do with a more male driven world telling the world women are like that.

In other words since men said "This is how this is", and so it became history as that must be how women are despite the fact they never were like that. Who knows. I haven't existed all of the histroy to view women through the ages. Maybe women just gave into the stereotype because they feel they had no choice (aka feminsm came around and let them be themselves).

I could be wrong. Whatever the case I think to some degree there is some differences between the sexes. I do notice when it comes to relationships, men and women often times tend to do some stereotype things. Again "some", not all. For example when it comes to sex men still tend to not understand/don't care about the womens end of it so its "Wham, bam, thank you mam!" which leaves the women feeling uncaring about sex. Just as some women in relationships still see any other women and try to measure her up. What she wears, what she buys, what she looks like...etc.

And in marriage we sometimes see women tend to be upset at the husband because they are looking for more emotional/romantic responses (showing its what they need) where as men sometimes are oblivious to this. Again its complicated. Overall I do agree there is no way to stereotype a sex 100% since everyone is different.

This reminds me of a study done just a few years ago where they would have men and women (individually) come in and watch a video. While they were watching it would track their vision and what they would look at. They would show the same video to everyone and it had various things like a man and woman talking. Another on a first date. Another having sex (yes you seen everything, well blurred for the tv documentary of course).

Men looked at different areas compared to women. For example most of the women, especially during the sex scene would first look at the womans chest, then thighs, feet, nether regions, face. Then they would look at the man...etc. They would go back and forth after that.

Where as the man, again especially during the sex scene looked at the womens nether regions and chest and tended to stare for a bit, then the chest or butt. But pretty would ignore the men all together and any shot where it focused on the man they would look off screen. And after some time they would stop watching all together.

When it came to the normal scenes women often checked out the womans shoes, if she had a purse, her hair, eyes, makeup, clothes, butt, chest...etc. The women after would even say its what they looked at. Of course they did glance at the guys face after and went back and forth with just general looks. Where as the men seemed to focus on the womans main areas (sort of like with the sex) and then got bored and looked off screen.

This study only had like 100 people. So I know one can't say "This must be proof of certain stereotypes!". But for me it did show many women do have tendencies to size up other women. Whether it be a competitive thing or a body issue thing I don't know. Maybe both. Just as many men focused mostly on sexual things on a body.

I wish I could find the documentary. It was british if I recall. Which may also play a role since diffrecnt cultures and places you live may influence how you act to some degree.
 
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RDKirk

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RDKirk

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This is a complicated subject really. As time has gone on women seem to act less like the stereotypes would say they do. Maybe its because of the rise of feminism. It helped them break out of the stereotypes. Helped them learn they are not restricted by some rules of being sensitive, emotional, fragile...etc. Now there are lots of strong women who aren't like that compared to decades ago. Or maybe women were never fully fragile to begin with and it had more to do with a more male driven world telling the world women are like that..

No, it just means the stereotypes were overblown. Generally, popular stereotypes are like a man who finds a button and weaves an entire vest behind it.
 
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Dave-W

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Third-wave feminist claim nothing is different but the plumbing, and that "gender is a social construct."
If that is believed to be true - then why does a significant number of feminists want to eliminate all males (as soon as they can figure out how to reproduce without us) ?
 
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RDKirk

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If that is believed to be true - then why does a significant number of feminists want to eliminate all males (as soon as they can figure out how to reproduce without us) ?

Because they believe "there is no difference except for the plumbing," which means in their eyes men have no use except for procreation of the species.

This has had a negative effect on families, particularly black families. Third wave feminism has been the third of a three-pronged attack that has devastated black families in the last generation.
 
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Edo2

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Paul said we are to greet one another with a holy kiss. I've seen Christian men that won't even give a hug where as women I've seen a hug as a way of greeting each other. Women seem more comfortable showing physical affection vs men.

I don't think its wired as much as it is cultural. In the states its something that goes back centuries. Probably won't change in our lifetime but that doesn't mean you don't try to change it with one person at a time.
 
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Dave-W

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Because they believe "there is no difference except for the plumbing," which means in their eyes men have no use except for procreation of the species.
That makes no sense. IF the only difference (other than plumbing) is culturalization, men could be re-cultured to BE women in every way except biological function. There would be no need to go to extreme technical processes to get rid of us.
 
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RDKirk

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That makes no sense. IF the only difference (other than plumbing) is culturalization, men could be re-cultured to BE women in every way except biological function. There would be no need to go to extreme technical processes to get rid of us.

I didn't say they didn't hate men.
 
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RDKirk

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Paul said we are to greet one another with a holy kiss. I've seen Christian men that won't even give a hug where as women I've seen a hug as a way of greeting each other. Women seem more comfortable showing physical affection vs men.

I don't think its wired as much as it is cultural. In the states its something that goes back centuries. Probably won't change in our lifetime but that doesn't mean you don't try to change it with one person at a time.

You're only considering the edges of stereotype. It's useful to note from culture to culture and century to century what changes and what doesn't change. The fundamental strands of male and female behavior are the same from culture to culture and from century to century.

"Husbands, love your wives."
"Wives, respect your husbands."


I work with teenagers, and I've noted that when a young man makes a really stupid decision, it's almost always about respect--to gain respect, to prevent disrespect, to be worthy of respect.

But when a young woman makes a really stupid decision, it's almost always about love--to gain love, to prevent being unloved, to be worthy of love.

Such things have not changed in two thousand years.

A bit ago, there was an experiment done with bonobos (a chimpanzee-like ape) in which children's toys--dolls and toy trucks--were left among the apes. The male apes took a minor initial interest in the toy trucks, simply as "strange new objects" for a while, but took no interest in the dolls. The female apes, however, took a great interest in the dolls, ignoring the toy trucks.

Of course, the toy trucks represented nothing to the apes, but the dolls had a similarity to their own infants. What was interesting is that the females picked up on that similarity but the males did not...and that has been replicated many times with human children.

There was another study of infants in newborn nurseries that noted female babies cried sympathetically (that is, when another baby began crying, it tended to set off crying in female babies nearby) but male babies did not.
 
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mkgal1

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So your argument is the same as third wave feminists that women and men are identical except for the plumbing. Sorry, but that's a myth.
No....that's NOT what that article stated. To simply sum up the article, what's being scientifically asserted (based on actual brain scans) is that:

Article said:
The majority of the brains were a mosaic of male and female structures, the team reports online today in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences. Depending on whether the researchers looked at gray matter, white matter, or the diffusion tensor imaging data, between 23% and 53% of brains contained a mix of regions that fell on the male-end and female-end of the spectrum. Very few of the brains—between 0% and 8%—contained all male or all female structures. “There is no one type of male brain or female brain,” Joel says.

....so, IOW, when I mention dismantling the myth that "guys aren't wired to be sensitive"....your response is (simply put): "we don't, because I'd like to hold to that opinion". Is that correct?
 
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mkgal1

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why does a significant number of feminists want to eliminate all males (as soon as they can figure out how to reproduce without us) ?
Significant number? Have you run across a LOT of women with that view---because I've not run into ONE (on the internet or in person).

I consider myself a feminist (and by that I just mean I believe in "equality")....like this book:
images

"Rather than trying to baptize feminism's current concerns (among them LGBTQ equality and pro-choice rights) with pick-and-choose Bible verses, Bessey starts with the whole narrative of Scripture. There, she finds a Jesus—and even a Paul—who saw women as equally crucial as men to advancing the gospel. To paraphrase Rebecca West: Feminism is the radical notion that women are disciples too."~'I'm a Feminist Because I Love Jesus So Much'

....but can we get back to the attitudes about men and sensitivity?
 
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mkgal1

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When the Bible addresses how we--as brothers and sisters in Christ---ought to relate to one another.....do you EVER see one set of instructions for relating to men and another set for women? Because I don't. I also don't see any distinction in the Fruit of the Spirit---it applies to everyone (we ARE more the same than we are different---that doesn't mean we are "identical").

I think, if I had to choose just one passage as an example, I'd probably choose Romans 12 (and it's too good not to quote):


Transformed relationships

3 Because of the grace that God gave me, I can say to each one of you: don’t think of yourself more highly than you ought to think. Instead, be reasonable since God has measured out a portion of faith to each one of you. 4 We have many parts in one body, but the parts don’t all have the same function. 5 In the same way, though there are many of us, we are one body in Christ, and individually we belong to each other. 6 We have different gifts that are consistent with God’s grace that has been given to us. If your gift is prophecy, you should prophesy in proportion to your faith. 7 If your gift is service, devote yourself to serving. If your gift is teaching, devote yourself to teaching. 8 If your gift is encouragement, devote yourself to encouraging. The one giving should do it with no strings attached. The leader should lead with passion. The one showing mercy should be cheerful.

9 Love should be shown without pretending. Hate evil, and hold on to what is good. 10 Love each other like the members of your family. Be the best at showing honor to each other. 11 Don’t hesitate to be enthusiastic—be on fire in the Spirit as you serve the Lord! 12 Be happy in your hope, stand your ground when you’re in trouble, and devote yourselves to prayer. 13 Contribute to the needs of God’s people, and welcome strangers into your home. 14 Bless people who harass you—bless and don’t curse them. 15 Be happy with those who are happy, and cry with those who are crying. 16 Consider everyone as equal, and don’t think that you’re better than anyone else. Instead, associate with people who have no status. Don’t think that you’re so smart. 17 Don’t pay back anyone for their evil actions with evil actions, but show respect for what everyone else believes is good.

18 If possible, to the best of your ability, live at peace with all people.19 Don’t try to get revenge for yourselves, my dear friends, but leave room for God’s wrath. It is written, Revenge belongs to me; I will pay it back, says the Lord. 20 Instead, If your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him a drink. By doing this, you will pile burning coals of fire upon his head. 21 Don’t be defeated by evil, but defeat evil with good.
 
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Dave-W

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There, she finds a Jesus—and even a Paul—who saw women as equally crucial as men to advancing the gospel.
This I agree with.
Feminism is the radical notion that women are disciples too.
I agree with the notion, but reject that it should be called "feminism."
 
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Dave-W

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do you EVER see one set of instructions for relating to men and another set for women?
In some things - yes.

Husbands love your wives...
Wives respect your husbands ...

Interestingly - there is no command (other than the general "love one another.." for a wife to love her husband.
 
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