How can there be free will in heaven?

[Sheila Davis]

Marrying a relative was not forbidden by God until the Mosaic Law was instituted if I’m not mistaken.

Does it matter when it was instituted in writing and besides that, 4,000 years ago the Hebrews were just beginning to learn the craft of writing. We are taught that God's word never changes - he may be lenient because of his Mercy.

 

[Clare73]

“The person who sins will die. The son will not bear the punishment for the father’s iniquity, nor will the father bear the punishment for the son’s iniquity; the righteousness of the righteous will be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked will be upon himself.”
‭‭Ezekiel‬ ‭18:20‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

We do not inherit the guilt of Adam’s sin

Absolutely correct. . .and for the reasons you give.
We do not inherit Adam's sin/guilt, it is imputed to us, we are made sinners (Romans 5:19),
just as we are made righteous, by imputation (Romans 4:1-11).

we inherited his sinful nature. A baby has to have the opportunity and the ability to sin before it can actually commit a sin. It’s not condemned as soon as it is formed in the womb nor is it condemned as soon as it exits the womb. It’s not capable of committing sin yet.

 

[Sheila Davis]

Where are you getting the idea that Cain & Able are Adam & Eve’s only two children? Or even their first two children? How old are Cain & Able when Able was killed? Hundreds of years old perhaps?

“Now the man had relations with his wife Eve, and she conceived and gave birth to Cain, and she said, “I have gotten a manchild with the help of the Lord.” Again, she gave birth to his brother Abel. And Abel was a keeper of flocks, but Cain was a tiller of the ground. So it came about in the course of time that Cain brought an offering to the Lord of the fruit of the ground. Abel, on his part also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of their fat portions. And the Lord had regard for Abel and for his offering;”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭4:1-4‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

Correct me if I'm wrong where did I say Cain and Abel were Adam and Eve's only children?

It's not my idea that Cain and Abel were the only two children Adam and Eve had ** when Cain slew Abel** that is what the churches have taught for centuries.
Churches teach that Seth was the THIRD child born Genesis chapter 4 verse 25..... then it goes on to talk about the children of Seth verse 26.

And I am fully aware of that scripture says that man lived for hundreds of years.
And you are so correct because nowhere in scripture does it say how old Kane or able was when Cain slew able and God put the curse on came - nor did I indicate their age was given. You see I believe that Adam lived hundreds of thousands of years before he sinned unlike what is taught in churches and as you said about Cain and Abel could have.

Where did I get Cain and Abel were the first two children born to Adam and Eve : here are four different Christian organizations
What Do We Know about Adam and Eve’s Children?

.https://ministry-to-children.com/cain-and-abel/

Cain and Abel

Why Is the Bible Story of Cain and Abel So Significant?

Who teaches Seth was the third born of Adam and Eve:

Seth

Topical Bible: Seth: The Third Son of Adam and Eve

Seth in the Bible

So according to what is being taught Adam and Eve only had three children when Cain made the statement anyone finding him May kill him - not my words theirs.
Something to question _ concerning my ideas as written below:
As I have stated to others and indicated on this thread, I believe Adam and Eve had many, many, children before either of them ate from the Tree of knowledge - that they had a form of immortality from the fruit of the Tree of Life and they lived for thousands if not a few hundred thousands of years *before their fall/sin.
I believe time as we know it started after the fall of Adam and Eve which I feel was an estimated 6 to 10,000 years ago.

I do not believe Adam was created 6,000 years ago and disobeyed God within the first few weeks but that he was created thousands of years ago lived a long, long, time before his sin brought death into the world as written in Romans chapter 12.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Does it matter when it was instituted in writing and besides that, 4,000 years ago the Hebrews were just beginning to learn the craft of writing. We are taught that God's word never changes - he may be lenient because of his Mercy.

God specifically told Adam & Eve to eat vegetables and fruits in Genesis.

“Then God said, “Behold, I have given you every plant yielding seed that is on the surface of all the earth, and every tree which has fruit yielding seed; it shall be food for you; and to every beast of the earth and to every bird of the sky and to every thing that moves on the earth which has life, I have given every green plant for food”; and it was so.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭1:29-30‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬


“Then to Adam He said, “Because you have listened to the voice of your wife, and have eaten from the tree about which I commanded you, saying, ‘You shall not eat from it’; Cursed is the ground because of you; In toil you will eat of it All the days of your life. Both thorns and thistles it shall grow for you; And you will eat the plants of the field;”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭3:17-18‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

After the flood God said to Noah that he can eat anything that moves.


“The fear of you and the terror of you will be on every beast of the earth and on every bird of the sky; with everything that creeps on the ground, and all the fish of the sea, into your hand they are given. Every moving thing that is alive shall be food for you; I give all to you, as I gave the green plant. Only you shall not eat flesh with its life, that is, its blood.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭9:2-4‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

Then at Mt Sinai God gave Moses the dietary laws allowing the Israelites to only eat certain types of animals.

Then there’s the change from the Old Covenant to the New Covenant.

So while God may not change His commandments have changed numerous times throughout the scriptures.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Correct me if I'm wrong where did I say Cain and Abel were Adam and Eve's only children?

I apologize, I misunderstood your position. It was not my intention to misrepresent you. Please forgive my mistake.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Correct me if I'm wrong where did I say Cain and Abel were Adam and Eve's only children?

It's not my idea that Cain and Abel were the only two children Adam and Eve had ** when Cain slew Abel** that is what the churches have taught for centuries.
Churches teach that Seth was the THIRD child born Genesis chapter 4 verse 25..... then it goes on to talk about the children of Seth verse 26.

And I am fully aware of that scripture says that man lived for hundreds of years.
And you are so correct because nowhere in scripture does it say how old Kane or able was when Cain slew able and God put the curse on came - nor did I indicate their age was given. You see I believe that Adam lived hundreds of thousands of years before he sinned unlike what is taught in churches and as you said about Cain and Abel could have.

Where did I get Cain and Abel were the first two children born to Adam and Eve : here are four different Christian organizations
What Do We Know about Adam and Eve’s Children?

.https://ministry-to-children.com/cain-and-abel/

Cain and Abel

Why Is the Bible Story of Cain and Abel So Significant?

Who teaches Seth was the third born of Adam and Eve:

Seth

Topical Bible: Seth: The Third Son of Adam and Eve

Seth in the Bible

So according to what is being taught Adam and Eve only had three children when Cain made the statement anyone finding him May kill him - not my words theirs.
Something to question _ concerning my ideas as written below:
As I have stated to others and indicated on this thread, I believe Adam and Eve had many, many, children before either of them ate from the Tree of knowledge - that they had a form of immortality from the fruit of the Tree of Life and they lived for thousands if not a few hundred thousands of years *before their fall/sin.
I believe time as we know it started after the fall of Adam and Eve which I feel was an estimated 6 to 10,000 years ago.

I do not believe Adam was created 6,000 years ago and disobeyed God within the first few weeks but that he was created thousands of years ago lived a long, long, time before his sin brought death into the world as written in Romans chapter 12.

But the scriptures specifically state that Adam lived to be 930 years old.

“So all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years, and he died.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭5:5‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

 

[BNR32FAN]

Where did I get Cain and Abel were the first two children born to Adam and Eve : here are four different Christian organizations

It’s irrelevant if people say that Cain & Able were Adam & Eve’s two firstborn, the scriptures don’t say that and they don’t provide any scriptural evidence to support that theory or I should say assumption.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Absolutely correct. . .and for the reasons you give.
We do not inherit Adam's sin/guilt, it is imputed to us, we are made sinners (Romans 5:19),
just as we are made righteous, by imputation (Romans 4:1-11).

I’m more inclined to believe that it was just the natural effect of free will which we received from Adam and without the guidance of the Holy Spirit we are destined to transgress God’s commandments sooner or later. I think the big mistake so many people make is thinking that Adam was perfect in the sense that he wasn’t capable of sin before he had sinned. If that were the case he never would’ve sinned in the first place.

 

[Sheila Davis]

God specifically told Adam & Eve to eat vegetables and fruits in Genesis.

“Then God said, “Behold, I have given you every plant yielding seed that is on the surface of all the earth, and every tree which has fruit yielding seed; it shall be food for you; and to every beast of the earth and to every bird of the sky and to every thing that moves on the earth which has life, I have given every green plant for food”; and it was so.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭1:29-30‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬


“Then to Adam He said, “Because you have listened to the voice of your wife, and have eaten from the tree about which I commanded you, saying, ‘You shall not eat from it’; Cursed is the ground because of you; In toil you will eat of it All the days of your life. Both thorns and thistles it shall grow for you; And you will eat the plants of the field;”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭3:17-18‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

After the flood God said to Noah that he can eat anything that moves.


“The fear of you and the terror of you will be on every beast of the earth and on every bird of the sky; with everything that creeps on the ground, and all the fish of the sea, into your hand they are given. Every moving thing that is alive shall be food for you; I give all to you, as I gave the green plant. Only you shall not eat flesh with its life, that is, its blood.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭9:2-4‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

Then at Mt Sinai God gave Moses the dietary laws allowing the Israelites to only eat certain types of animals.

Then there’s the change from the Old Covenant to the New Covenant.

So while God may not change His commandments have changed numerous times throughout the scriptures.

I said he may be lenient because of his mercy __ his mind hasn't changed but he is lenient and allows man a lot of leeway.

 

[Sheila Davis]

But the scriptures specifically state that Adam lived to be 930 years old.

“So all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years, and he died.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭5:5‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

Thank you I am fully aware of how long Adam lived after he sinned - nowhere in scripture does it say how old Adam was before he sinned - those were my words.

 

[Sheila Davis]

It’s irrelevant if people say that Cain & Able were Adam & Eve’s two firstborn, the scriptures don’t say that and they don’t provide any scriptural evidence to support that theory or I should say assumption.

You asked where did I get it from and I answered - that is what is being taught. Relevant or not that's what the churches teach.
And I've given you my position on what I think of the lives of Adam, Eve, Cain, Abel which is also assumption based on various scriptures.
I know that no interpreter knows the intent of the writer - knows if the interpretations are absolutely correct - or knows as an absolute if the present understanding of the ancient Hebrew language is absolutely correct. Or this how many times their writings have been rewritten - the Dead Sea scrolls is estimated to be just over 2,000 years old. How many times was Jerusalem destroyed? Two recorded times by the Babylonians and the Romans.

Plus there are many details not given throughout scripture but especially in the first few books of Genesis.

 

[Clare73]

I’m more inclined to believe that it was just the natural effect of free will which we received from Adam and without the guidance of the Holy Spirit we are destined to transgress God’s commandments sooner or later. I think the big mistake so many people make is thinking that Adam was perfect in the sense that he wasn’t capable of sin before he had sinned. If that were the case he never would’ve sinned in the first place.

He was capable of sin, he was also capable of being sin free for life.
That's what we lost.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Thank you I am fully aware of how long Adam lived after he sinned - nowhere in scripture does it say how old Adam was before he sinned - those were my words.

It doesn’t say the days that Adam lived after the fall or after he sinned. It says all the days that Adam lived. This means from the day he was created until the day he died. All the days that he lived, not some.

“So all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years, and he died.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭5‬:‭5‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

 

[BNR32FAN]

I said he may be lenient because of his mercy __ his mind hasn't changed but he is lenient and allows man a lot of leeway.

You also said that His word doesn’t change which is what I was showing examples of.

 

[BNR32FAN]

You asked where did I get it from and I answered - that is what is being taught. Relevant or not that's what the churches teach.
And I've given you my position on what I think of the lives of Adam, Eve, Cain, Abel which is also assumption based on various scriptures.
I know that no interpreter knows the intent of the writer - knows if the interpretations are absolutely correct - or knows as an absolute if the present understanding of the ancient Hebrew language is absolutely correct. Or this how many times their writings have been rewritten - the Dead Sea scrolls is estimated to be just over 2,000 years old. How many times was Jerusalem destroyed? Two recorded times by the Babylonians and the Romans.

Plus there are many details not given throughout scripture but especially in the first few books of Genesis.

I apologize, when I asked “where did you get that from” I was referring to what verse in scripture but I didn’t specify that.

We can make deductions based on the information that is provided in the scriptures but we shouldn’t make assumptions or contradictions.

 

[BNR32FAN]

He was capable of sin, he was also capable of being sin free for life.
That's what we lost.

There is no verse that supports the idea that Adam could’ve lived 930 years without sinning. No one else other than Christ has been able to accomplish such a miraculous feat. However I suppose it is within the realm of possibility that he could’ve died before ever having sinned since if he had died before he ate from the tree of knowledge then you’d be correct. No scripture actually says that we lost the ability to live without sin because of Adam’s fall. We all have the same nature Adam had ever since he was created.

 

[Sheila Davis]

It doesn’t say the days that Adam lived after the fall or after he sinned. It says all the days that Adam lived. This means from the day he was created until the day he died. All the days that he lived, not some.

“So all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years, and he died.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭5‬:‭5‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

And when were those days spoken of_ after he ate from the Tree of knowledge.

God told him the day that he ate the fruit of the tree of knowledge he would surely die and he died within that day.

 

[Sheila Davis]

I apologize, when I asked “where did you get that from” I was referring to what verse in scripture but I didn’t specify that.

We can make deductions based on the information that is provided in the scriptures but we shouldn’t make assumptions or contradictions.

The churches are making deductions based on information that is provided in Scripture.
because scripture does not indicate that there were any children before Cain and Abel.
You said they are assuming.

 

[Sheila Davis]

You also said that His word doesn’t change which is what I was showing examples of.

His Word does not change - and there is no deduction or assumptions as to whether it changes or not. Again he is lenient towards man - which is mercy

What Does the Bible Say About My Word Does Not Change?

He doesn't want man to eat meat but he allows it.

 

[BNR32FAN]

The churches are making deductions based on information that is provided in Scripture.
because scripture does not indicate that there were any children before Cain and Abel.
You said they are assuming.

There’s a difference between a deduction and an assumption. A deduction is a conclusion that can be reached according to the information available. An assumption is a conclusion that is reached that is not supported by the information available. We can deduce that Cain and Able were children of Adam by the information provided in the scriptures. We cannot deduce that they were their first born by the information provided in the scriptures which makes it an assumption. So those that claim that Cain and Able are Adam’s first two born are making an assumption not a deduction.