Pray that I might be able to speak through your struggling spirit so that you might grasp the God of creation as shared in His holy word.Praying for you, brother.
What do you suppose is the 'heart'?Not really.
God writes His Word on our hearts and gives us a new heart, correct.
But does sin cease to exist in us then? Is not what we wrestle with our flesh?
So, yes our hearts can still be very wicked.
Please give me scripture that says our hearts are not still wicked after salvation.
It is MY thread...This seems to me to be a rather odd direction to take this.
We are talking about human beings and the creation of earth and human beings. Why you would compare God's love for His Son to His love for us is puzzling. Then, why you would compare the love of God for human beings to what He feels for Satan, who is another creation of angels, is puzzling also.
Please start another thread for these two other positions if you would like to discuss them, but I really don't see how you can think them relevant to whether God loves all of His human creation or not.
Is there a point here?
Sure it does!I think everyone following this thread can read what you posted.
Now how does this say that God hates those who are not His Children?
That is what you said and this is NOT proof of that statement.
Just because God disciplines His Own, does not mean He hates the others.
Try again.
But can you show us where God says all men are treated identically, equally, and in the same exact fashion?
No, you cannot. So, why continue this fruitless endeavor to re-create God in a manner that is more palatable?
God is just. Everyone ever born of man deserves eternal condemnation. God is not obligated to save 1 person.
God's mercy is dispensed according to His pleasure. Mercy is dispensed as God chooses, not as you or I approve.
It sounds like you have convinced yourself God must be at least as fair, just, and loving as you perceive man.
The standard is God, not man's feelings or thoughts. Whatever God does or doesn't do defines that particular attribute.
IOW, God's actions exemplify His Divine attributes. However God loves IS love. However God administers justice IS just.
Our standards of justice and love should originate with God, not our personal interpretations.
We cannot superimpose our personality characteristics over God's attributes because we feel a certain way.
That is what they are saying, the difference is between accepting and rejecting.There is a difference or actually many difference(s) listed all through SCRIPTURE (YHWH'S WORD).
Do you mean there's no difference shown or identified in what some brand or denomination says ?
No. Neither "a universal gathering" as thought of today, norDo you think that "ecclesia" Jesus was talking about is a Universal gathering, no matter where the individual members are located? John 4:23. As opposed to the idea of a locally organised body of believers.
(YHWH gives clear INSTRUCTIONS in HIS WORD, yes; man came up with other ideas instead).Didn't they clearly think of it as an Org? Hierarchy, scheduled meetings with a fixed agenda, certain types of activities, finances, relations with other churches in the region etc. It was all quite carefully prescribed, wasn't it?
When YHWH says HE hated Esau, HE hated Esau.(without a logical understandable reason)
When YHWH says HE hated Esau, HE hated Esau.
Simple.
HE says often in HIS WORD HIS WAYS are [infinitely] HIGHER and TOTALLY DIFFERENT than our [man's] ways;
HIS WAYS are not logically discerned, nor by any amount of study on man's part, man's wisdom, nor man's knowledge.
Even the Apostle Peter, Specifically CALLED and CHOSEN BY YHWH,
and the Apostle John, and the Apostle Paul, all Specifically CALLED and CHOSEN BY YHWH,
did not learn Y'SHUA IS MESSIAH by men's doing, nor by men's methods.
Rather,
as Yochanan the immerser proclaimed before them,
"no man can receive anything, unless it is granted to them by the FATHER from heaven";
then
Y'SHUA always said the same thing, never changing.
"the flesh profits nothing" and
"keep yourselves from idols".
I believe HIS WORD. Simple. (yes, revelation is required; sorry)By your own words, you do not know what hate means. His ways are higher than yours, yet you think His hate is the hate man knows.
Which verses apply to salvation?There is no place in scripture that says: God arbitrarily (without a logical understandable reason) treats mature adults differently concerning salvation. Yes, God does hate some people, but “hate” is not the opposite of Love and as we are to both Love and hate our parents, God can love (want to save) and hate a person (cannot work with them), so as an example God hated Esau, but that does not mean Esau was not saved in the end and in heaven.
The bible says; “God is just” and you even say that in this post, so what are the inspired writers of scripture trying to convey to the reader when they say: “God is just”?
Proverbs 24:27 An unjust man is an abomination to the righteous, but he whose way is straight is an abomination to the wicked.
Duet. 16:19 You shall not pervert justice; you shall not show partiality; and you shall not take a bribe, for a bribe blinds the eyes of the wise and subverts the cause of the righteous.
2 Chron. 19:7 Now then, let the fear of the Lord be upon you; take heed what you do, for there is no perversion of justice with the Lord our God, or partiality, or taking bribes.”
Pro. 28:21 To show partiality is not good; but for a piece of bread a man will do wrong.
Is. 3: 9 Their partiality witnesses against them…
Luke 20:21 They asked him, “Teacher, we know that you speak and teach rightly, and show no partiality, but truly teach the way of God.
Ro. 2:11 For God shows no partiality.
Gal. 2:6 And from those who were reputed to be something (what they were makes no difference to me; God shows no partiality)—those, I say, who were of repute added nothing to me;
Eph. 6: 9 Masters, do the same to them, and forbear threatening, knowing that he who is both their Master and yours is in heaven, and that there is no partiality with him.
Col. 3: 24 knowing that from the Lord you will receive the inheritance as your reward; you are serving the Lord Christ. 25 For the wrongdoer will be paid back for the wrong he has done, and there is no partiality.
Is the only way God could show no partiality toward the nonbelieving sinner would be by treating them equally?
If God is choosing some nonbelievers over other nonbelievers for no reason, then He is showing partiality toward the ones He chose?
Jesus has shown and told us God’s attributes which includes God being “just”, which would communicate treating everyone equally.
Yes, we all deserve destruction, but God is offering to everyone equally an invitation to His Banquet.
,
Treating nonbelievers differently would not be “just”, so God does treat everyone equally in the one area that counts “Salvation”. That is the standard of Love and justice we are to follow.
I am not “superimpose our personality characteristics”, since Christ and the Bible has shown and told us how God is. The way God treated David is the way all sinners who repent are treated.
Which verses apply to salvation?
Does God love the souls in hell the same as He love us?
Here's the entire passage. You tell us.Hey bottom, do these verses apply to salvation?
Revelation 22 -
14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city.
15 But outside are dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie.
Jesus tells us to hate our parents so are we to just simple "hate" our parents?When YHWH says HE hated Esau, HE hated Esau.
Simple.
HE says often in HIS WORD HIS WAYS are [infinitely] HIGHER and TOTALLY DIFFERENT than our [man's] ways;
HIS WAYS are not logically discerned, nor by any amount of study on man's part, man's wisdom, nor man's knowledge.
Even the Apostle Peter, Specifically CALLED and CHOSEN BY YHWH,
and the Apostle John, and the Apostle Paul, all Specifically CALLED and CHOSEN BY YHWH,
did not learn Y'SHUA IS MESSIAH by men's doing, nor by men's methods.
Rather,
as Yochanan the immerser proclaimed before them,
"no man can receive anything, unless it is granted to them by the FATHER from heaven";
then
Y'SHUA always said the same thing, never changing.
"the flesh profits nothing" and
"keep yourselves from idols".
Which verses apply to salvation?
Does God love the souls in hell the same as He love us?
Very good one !Jesus tells us to hate our parents so are we to just simple "hate" our parents?
Revelation 22:7[7]“Look, I am coming soon! Blessed are those who obey the words of prophecy written in this book.”
[11]Let the one who is doing harm continue to do harm; let the one who is vile continue to be vile; let the one who is righteous continue to live righteously; let the one who is holy continue to be holy.”
I have no idea what your point is.Revelation 22:7
KJ21
“Behold, I come quickly.” Blessed is he that keepeth the sayings of the prophecy of this book.
ASV
And behold, I come quickly. Blessed is he that keepeth the words of the prophecy of this book.
AMP
“And behold, I am coming quickly. Blessed (happy, prosperous, to be admired) is the one who heeds and takes to heart and remembers the words of the prophecy [that is, the predictions, consolations, and warnings] contained in this book (scroll).”
AMPC
And behold, I am coming speedily. Blessed (happy and to be envied) is he who observes and lays to heart and keeps the truths of the prophecy (the predictions, consolations, and warnings) contained in this [little] book.
[18]And I solemnly declare to everyone who hears the words of prophecy written in this book: If anyone adds anything to what is written here, God will add to that person the plagues described in this book.
[19]And if anyone removes any of the words from this book of prophecy, God will remove that person’s share in the tree of life and in the holy city that are described in this book.
[20]He who is the faithful witness to all these things says, “Yes, I am coming soon!”Amen! Come, Lord Jesus!
Here's the entire passage. You tell us.
Revelation 22:7-20
[7]“Look, I am coming soon! Blessed are those who obey the words of prophecy written in this book.”
[8]I, John, am the one who heard and saw all these things. And when I heard and saw them, I fell down to worship at the feet of the angel who showed them to me.
[9]But he said, “No, don’t worship me. I am a servant of God, just like you and your brothers the prophets, as well as all who obey what is written in this book. Worship only God!”
[10]Then he instructed me, “Do not seal up the prophetic words in this book, for the time is near.
[11]Let the one who is doing harm continue to do harm; let the one who is vile continue to be vile; let the one who is righteous continue to live righteously; let the one who is holy continue to be holy.”
[12]“Look, I am coming soon, bringing my reward with me to repay all people according to their deeds.
[13]I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.”
[14]Blessed are those who wash their robes. They will be permitted to enter through the gates of the city and eat the fruit from the tree of life.
[15]Outside the city are the dogs—the sorcerers, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idol worshipers, and all who love to live a lie.
[16]“I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you this message for the churches. I am both the source of David and the heir to his throne. I am the bright morning star.”
[17]The Spirit and the bride say, “Come.” Let anyone who hears this say, “Come.” Let anyone who is thirsty come. Let anyone who desires drink freely from the water of life.
[18]And I solemnly declare to everyone who hears the words of prophecy written in this book: If anyone adds anything to what is written here, God will add to that person the plagues described in this book.
[19]And if anyone removes any of the words from this book of prophecy, God will remove that person’s share in the tree of life and in the holy city that are described in this book.
[20]He who is the faithful witness to all these things says, “Yes, I am coming soon!”Amen! Come, Lord Jesus!
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