- Sep 29, 2016
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This is going to be a thread that, although it may transpire into vileness thrown from one person onto another, I still think is worth discussing, despite the people that may be enraged from this post.
I should also note that you ought to hear my perspective - that I come from a Roman Catholic background, not a traditional Roman Catholic background, but a conservative, Republican, JPII / Mother Teresa background. Thus, perhaps my upbringing has colored my eyes, and I will fully admit this.
So, with that being said, let me begin.
I don't think that Orthodoxy is completely aligned with a specific political ideology that fits in the paradigm of the Party-System. For example, although there are some fundamental principles within Republicanism that align with Orthodoxy, I think that there are many principles which don't align with Orthodoxy - for example, anti-environmentalism, militarism, corporatism, etc.
However, I think that in Liberalism, while there are some principles that align with Orthodoxy (helping with homelessness, environmentalism) - there are so many principles which go against the goals of Orthodoxy in its ethos, that I personally feel baffled that one could be a committed Democrat but still claim to uphold Orthodox values.
These principles includes doctrinal acceptance of the LGBTQ movement, and a societal reformation of all aspects of life into acceptance of such sinful lifestyles as normative, abortion and the public, tax-dollars funding thereof (as well as the normalization of a culture which doesn't recognize life at conception), prostitution and inappropriate contentography as legitimate industries, the normalization of illicit drugs, the elimination of discourse in the name of emotion, euthanasia, elimination of traditional moral and religious opinions and thought in Academia, the push for contraception, the elimination of God from the state, the elimination of patriotism, the elimination of nationality as a social construct, the elimination of gender as a social construct, the elimination of a right to privacy, the elimination of "toxic" masculinity, the equivocation of male and female gender roles in society, the elimination of Christianity as having cultural significance in the United States, elimination of the family from education and to the state,
and in more recent times, the tide seems to be shifting where the Democratic Party has embraced morally wrong ideas that were once normative for the Republicans. This includes a more imperialistic role for the United States, such as supporting the Western Ukrainians and funding Islamic Rebels in the name of forcing "Democracy" on people, some of who don't want "liberal values" but rather view religious morality as more important; stopping the "Evil Empire" of Putin's "Revitalized Soviet Union," and Democrats today also seem to support to a greater extent the concept of "free trade," viewing what Trump is doing with China, a country which continually abuses human rights in its working conditions, as something that is "economically catastrophic."
With this out of the way, let's discuss it further.
I have no problem with people who somehow still think that by Voting Democrat, that Orthodox principles in society will somehow advance. I think they are wrong, but I can still see where they are coming from, especially when the Republican Party seems to advance ideas that are not only dangerous for society, but anti-Orthodox (for example, being against Environmentalism, encouraging climate change, etc.)
The problem I have are people who are adamant, in love with ALL of these Liberal principles, and who think that SOMEHOW these principle are concordant with what it means to be an Orthodox Christian. In light of all the Church Fathers, both new and old, in light of the Bible, in light of Christ, they can somehow think that these ideas are compatible with an Orthodox Ethos.
And I wonder - of course I'm making judgments on them, as Paul did to the Judaizers - how can you go to the Chalice, fasting and preparing for the Eucharist, for the literal Body and Blood of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, holding morally lawless political beliefs in your heart, viewing that idol as somehow superior to God and the Church?
There are two conclusions I can come to.
1. There is something I am fundamentally missing.
2. There is a significant portion of "cradle Orthodox" who are outside the Church and outside of Salvation, but still feel like Orthodoxy is "technically a part of their identity" because "ZOMG I'm Greek! I gotta watch 'My Big Fat Greek Wedding!'", despite the fact they don't even believe in God or Christ. Their real intentions, however, are to change Church dogma to conform to their materialistic and godless worldview.
If conclusion 2 is correct, this begs the question:
Why hasn't the Church done a better job at educating people, and why hasn't the Orthodox Church done a better job at excommunicating heretics?
I fear that, considering how evil and toxic are culture has become (at least when contrasted with previous norms in terms of Christianity and it's affiliation in the United States), and how influential the United States and Western Europe in terms of international geopolitics is, that something similar that happened to Roman Catholicism will happen to Orthodoxy, where most of the Church (with the exception of maybe Russia and some Eastern European countries aligned with Russia) will fall into moral apostasy, and lead to a schism of major proportions on the basis of this morality (if it doesn't happen after a schism over Ukraine).
If conclusion 1 is correct, what am I missing?
So, with that huge rant. Thoughts.
I should also note that you ought to hear my perspective - that I come from a Roman Catholic background, not a traditional Roman Catholic background, but a conservative, Republican, JPII / Mother Teresa background. Thus, perhaps my upbringing has colored my eyes, and I will fully admit this.
So, with that being said, let me begin.
I don't think that Orthodoxy is completely aligned with a specific political ideology that fits in the paradigm of the Party-System. For example, although there are some fundamental principles within Republicanism that align with Orthodoxy, I think that there are many principles which don't align with Orthodoxy - for example, anti-environmentalism, militarism, corporatism, etc.
However, I think that in Liberalism, while there are some principles that align with Orthodoxy (helping with homelessness, environmentalism) - there are so many principles which go against the goals of Orthodoxy in its ethos, that I personally feel baffled that one could be a committed Democrat but still claim to uphold Orthodox values.
These principles includes doctrinal acceptance of the LGBTQ movement, and a societal reformation of all aspects of life into acceptance of such sinful lifestyles as normative, abortion and the public, tax-dollars funding thereof (as well as the normalization of a culture which doesn't recognize life at conception), prostitution and inappropriate contentography as legitimate industries, the normalization of illicit drugs, the elimination of discourse in the name of emotion, euthanasia, elimination of traditional moral and religious opinions and thought in Academia, the push for contraception, the elimination of God from the state, the elimination of patriotism, the elimination of nationality as a social construct, the elimination of gender as a social construct, the elimination of a right to privacy, the elimination of "toxic" masculinity, the equivocation of male and female gender roles in society, the elimination of Christianity as having cultural significance in the United States, elimination of the family from education and to the state,
and in more recent times, the tide seems to be shifting where the Democratic Party has embraced morally wrong ideas that were once normative for the Republicans. This includes a more imperialistic role for the United States, such as supporting the Western Ukrainians and funding Islamic Rebels in the name of forcing "Democracy" on people, some of who don't want "liberal values" but rather view religious morality as more important; stopping the "Evil Empire" of Putin's "Revitalized Soviet Union," and Democrats today also seem to support to a greater extent the concept of "free trade," viewing what Trump is doing with China, a country which continually abuses human rights in its working conditions, as something that is "economically catastrophic."
With this out of the way, let's discuss it further.
I have no problem with people who somehow still think that by Voting Democrat, that Orthodox principles in society will somehow advance. I think they are wrong, but I can still see where they are coming from, especially when the Republican Party seems to advance ideas that are not only dangerous for society, but anti-Orthodox (for example, being against Environmentalism, encouraging climate change, etc.)
The problem I have are people who are adamant, in love with ALL of these Liberal principles, and who think that SOMEHOW these principle are concordant with what it means to be an Orthodox Christian. In light of all the Church Fathers, both new and old, in light of the Bible, in light of Christ, they can somehow think that these ideas are compatible with an Orthodox Ethos.
And I wonder - of course I'm making judgments on them, as Paul did to the Judaizers - how can you go to the Chalice, fasting and preparing for the Eucharist, for the literal Body and Blood of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, holding morally lawless political beliefs in your heart, viewing that idol as somehow superior to God and the Church?
There are two conclusions I can come to.
1. There is something I am fundamentally missing.
2. There is a significant portion of "cradle Orthodox" who are outside the Church and outside of Salvation, but still feel like Orthodoxy is "technically a part of their identity" because "ZOMG I'm Greek! I gotta watch 'My Big Fat Greek Wedding!'", despite the fact they don't even believe in God or Christ. Their real intentions, however, are to change Church dogma to conform to their materialistic and godless worldview.
If conclusion 2 is correct, this begs the question:
Why hasn't the Church done a better job at educating people, and why hasn't the Orthodox Church done a better job at excommunicating heretics?
I fear that, considering how evil and toxic are culture has become (at least when contrasted with previous norms in terms of Christianity and it's affiliation in the United States), and how influential the United States and Western Europe in terms of international geopolitics is, that something similar that happened to Roman Catholicism will happen to Orthodoxy, where most of the Church (with the exception of maybe Russia and some Eastern European countries aligned with Russia) will fall into moral apostasy, and lead to a schism of major proportions on the basis of this morality (if it doesn't happen after a schism over Ukraine).
If conclusion 1 is correct, what am I missing?
So, with that huge rant. Thoughts.
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