How can baptism be required for salvation?

[BNR32FAN]

Your premise is sound, except it does not account for Rom 6 and Col 2 that both say it is during baptism, not repentance, that the Spirit takes action to remove our sin.

These verses say they have been baptized into His death they don’t say that they were forgiven during baptism.

“Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death? Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭6:3-4‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

“and in Him you were also circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, in the removal of the body of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ; having been buried with Him in baptism, in which you were also raised up with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead.”
‭‭Colossians‬ ‭2:11-12‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

 

[BNR32FAN]

Your premise is sound, except it does not account for Rom 6 and Col 2 that both say it is during baptism, not repentance, that the Spirit takes action to remove our sin. It also does not account for Acts 22 that demonstrates that it is in baptism that sins are washed away. It also does not account for 1 Pet 3 where baptism, not repentance, saves you.

You make sound arguments, but you ignore passages that disprove your position. Yes, repentance is absolutely necessary, and if the passages I just listed were not there then repentance would be the end of the story. But these passages do exist, and they are Holy Inspired Scripture, which means that we cannot ignore them. We must bow the knee to God's command, not stand on our own preconceptions or the misguided instruction of others.

Acts 22 involves repentance so you can’t determine that the sins were washed away by baptism if Jesus said they are forgiven by repentance.

“Now why do you delay? Get up and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on His name.’”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭22:16‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

 

[Doug Brents]

These verses say they have been baptized into His death they don’t say that they were forgiven during baptism.

“Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death? Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭6:3-4‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

“and in Him you were also circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, in the removal of the body of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ; having been buried with Him in baptism, in which you were also raised up with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead.”
‭‭Colossians‬ ‭2:11-12‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

Read them more closely.
Romans says we are baptized into His death so that we can be raised from (spiritual) death to eternal life with Christ. If we are not united with His death, we won't receive His perfection in exchange for our imperfection.
Colossians says that it is in baptism that the Holy Spirit cuts from us our sins and sinful nature, and raises us up with Christ.

Connect this with Acts 2:38 which says we are forgiven of our sins when we repent and are baptized, and Mark 16:16 that says those who believe and are baptized will be saved, and 1 Pet 3:20-21 which says that it is in passing through the water of baptism is like passing through the water of the Flood that saved Noah (and likewise we are saved), and you MUST come to the conclusion that it is water baptism that is the point in time at which we are saved. Any other conclusion is to defy Scripture, and thereby, God.

 

[Doug Brents]

Acts 22 involves repentance so you can’t determine that the sins were washed away by baptism if Jesus said they are forgiven by repentance.

“Now why do you delay? Get up and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on His name.’”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭22:16‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

Say what? Where is repentance mentioned in the verse you just quoted?
The instruction is very clear:
Get up
Be baptized
Call on the name of Jesus
Wash away sins

Saul had already believed Jesus. It is pretty clear that He believed on the road three days earlier. He was more clearly directed by Ananias in the preceding few verses. And now in the culmination of Ananias' message from the Holy Spirit, he says get up, be baptized (calling on the name of Jesus (in the name of Jesus (Acts 2:38))), and you will be forgiven (sins washed away).

 

[throughfiierytrial]

For God so loved the world He gave his one and only Son, that whosoever believes in Him will have everlasting life. - John 3:16 (No mention of baptism)

If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. - Romans 10:9 (No mention of baptism)

Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned. - Mark 16:16 (Notice baptism is completely useless without faith.)

Now, on the last verse, it appears baptism is a requirement. However, the emphasis on faith in it shows us all baptism does not save anyone. Why did John baptize people before the Holy Spirit came down? Why do so many Christians believe if you are not baptized in water, you are blocked from heaven?

John's baptism was a baptism of repentance; he was preparing the way of the Lord...making straight paths. (Luke 3:2-4, Mark 1:4, Acts 13:24, Acts 19:4)
My Lutheran church believes in water baptism because it is commanded by God as we see in the Great Commission as well as in the promise stated in Acts 2:37-40.

 

[throughfiierytrial]

For God so loved the world He gave his one and only Son, that whosoever believes in Him will have everlasting life. - John 3:16 (No mention of baptism)

If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. - Romans 10:9 (No mention of baptism)

Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned. - Mark 16:16 (Notice baptism is completely useless without faith.)

Now, on the last verse, it appears baptism is a requirement. However, the emphasis on faith in it shows us all baptism does not save anyone. Why did John baptize people before the Holy Spirit came down? Why do so many Christians believe if you are not baptized in water, you are blocked from heaven?

Another good verse illustrating the need for water baptism...where there is time and water...
I Peter 3:20-22:
20 to those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water, 21 and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ, 22 who has gone into heaven and is at God’s right hand—with angels, authorities and powers in submission to him.

The salvation of those who die before baptism due to lack of time or water or understanding (not out of rejection, but lack the knowledge) is in God's righteous hands. We need not hold those answers to carry out His will in our own lives as recorded in Scripture.

 

[Doug Brents]

Another good verse illustrating the need for water baptism...where there is time and water...
I Peter 3:20-22:
20 to those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water, 21 and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ, 22 who has gone into heaven and is at God’s right hand—with angels, authorities and powers in submission to him.

The salvation of those who die before baptism due to lack of time or water or understanding (not out of rejection, but lack the knowledge) is in God's righteous hands. We need not hold those answers to carry out His will in our own lives as recorded in Scripture.

There is absolutely nothing in that passage says anything about “where there is time and water”. You are adding to what Scripture says.

Is there leniency for those who have no water? As you said, that is in God’s hands. But since it is very clearly commanded multiple times as the point at which we are saved, I would do everything I could to baptize a person I was teaching as soon as possible.

 

[throughfiierytrial]

There is absolutely nothing in that passage says anything about “where there is time and water”. You are adding to what Scripture says.

Is there leniency for those who have no water? As you said, that is in God’s hands. But since it is very clearly commanded multiple times as the point at which we are saved, I would do everything I could to baptize a person I was teaching as soon as possible.

I did not say that the passage I quoted says "where there is time and water". The so called "adding" is from the implications of the following passages...
John 5:24:
24 “Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.

Romans 10:9:
If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

Jesus says it and Paul writes this under inspiration. The implication is that the faith is there to save...the thief on the cross was likely not baptized yet saved.You should do all you can to baptize; if not possible to get to this point it is likely the person was saved..again, because of the above passages.All judgements about salvation are in the Savior's hands.

 

[Valletta]

I did not say that the passage I quoted says "where there is time and water". The so called "adding" is from the implications of the following passages...
John 5:24:
24 “Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.

Romans 10:9:
If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

Jesus says it and Paul writes this under inspiration. The implication is that the faith is there to save...the thief on the cross was likely not baptized yet saved.You should do all you can to baptize; if not possible to get to this point it is likely the person was saved..again, because of the above passages.All judgements about salvation are in the Savior's hands.

Baptism with water as the sign is the norm, not the only way to receive Baptism.

 

[Doug Brents]

Baptism with water as the sign is the norm, not the only way to receive Baptism.

There is only one baptism in the NT Church (Eph 4:5-6). And that one baptism is in water as defined by 1 Pet 3:21 and Eph 5:26 and other passages as requiring water. And it is this water baptism that is the point at which we are saved (washed clean, made spotless, resurrected, united with Christ, etc.) as stated in those passages as well as Col 2:11-14, Rom 6:1-4, Acts 2:38, Acts 22:16, and others. There is no salvation without water baptism. Will God make exceptions for those who do not have access to water? I don’t know. Scripture does not address the possibility. But it does make the case that God desires those who obey His will, do no more or less than commanded, and seek His will over their own at all times.

 

[Danthemailman]

Only one baptism in the NT? According to Hebrews 6:2 there are several. I count 5

Baptism of water or repentance John the Baptist’s baptism mentioned in Acts 19

Baptism of the Spirit mentioned by JTB when he said I baptize with water but He will baptize with the Spirit and fire in Matthew 3:11-12

Baptism of fire also mentioned in Matthew 3:11-12

I can’t find the passage about the baptism of death right now I’m at work.

You are correct. The Bible does mention multiple baptisms in scripture. 1. Water, 2. Spirit, 3. fire. Also, in Luke 12:50, Jesus said - "But I have a baptism to be baptized with, and how distressed I am till it is accomplished!" Of course Jesus was not distressed about water baptism, but being "immersed" into suffering, namely His sacrificial death on the cross.

In regards to the one baptism in Ephesians 4:5, there is only one baptism that places us into the body of Christ and that is SPIRIT baptism, not water baptism.

Ephesians 4:5 - one Lord, one faith, one baptism.

1 Corinthians 12:13 - For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body--whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free--and have all been made to drink into one Spirit.

 

[Danthemailman]

Like I said before there is no verse that says you must be baptized to be saved...

There is also no verse in the Bible that says whoever is not baptized will be condemned.

John 3:18 - He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who (is not water baptized? - NO) does not believe is condemned already, because he has not (been water baptized? - NO) because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

 

[Doug Brents]

You are correct. The Bible does mention multiple baptisms in scripture. 1. Water, 2. Spirit, 3. fire. Also, in Luke 12:50, Jesus said - "But I have a baptism to be baptized with, and how distressed I am till it is accomplished!" Of course Jesus was not distressed about water baptism, but being "immersed" into suffering, namely His sacrificial death on the cross.

In regards to the one baptism in Ephesians 4:5, there is only one baptism that places us into the body of Christ and that is SPIRIT baptism, not water baptism.

Ephesians 4:5 - one Lord, one faith, one baptism.

1 Corinthians 12:13 - For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body--whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free--and have all been made to drink into one Spirit.

That is a great explanation, but it does not account for the multiple passages that state that it is in water baptism that salvation occurs.

 

[DerSchweik]

I am only discouraging people from thinking baptism, not faith, is how we are saved. That idea flies out a window when you consider the fact that despite being baptized during infancy, I was not ready to become a Christian for the next 20 years. If you don't believe in the Trinity, baptism is just getting wet.

Is baptism not an act of faith?

 

[DerSchweik]

At what point was the thief on the cross baptized? and yet Jesus saved him.

Are you suggesting Jesus' death (and subsequent burial and resurrection) are not relevant to, or necessary for our salvation?

 

[bbbbbbb]

Is baptism not an act of faith?

Everything everyone knowingly does every moment of their lives is an act of faith. The fact that an infant is unknowingly engaged in feeding and washing does not make it an act of faith on the part of the infant, but that of the parents. Personally speaking, I did not exercise faith to have my mother change my diapers.

 

[ralliann]

Everything everyone knowingly does every moment of their lives is an act of faith. The fact that an infant is unknowingly engaged in feeding and washing does not make it an act of faith on the part of the infant, but that of the parents. Personally speaking, I did not exercise faith to have my mother change my diapers.

So, then it is an act of faith? Similar to circumcision in the Covenant made with Abraham?

 

[Valletta]

Baptism replaced circumcision.

 

[Eloy Craft]

Everything everyone knowingly does every moment of their lives is an act of faith. The fact that an infant is unknowingly engaged in feeding and washing does not make it an act of faith on the part of the infant, but that of the parents. Personally speaking, I did not exercise faith to have my mother change my diapers.

Our eternal life depends on
our own power to reason and accomplish an act of faith? There is no hope of salvation if one lacks power to reason? Many kids in ancient times never reached the age of reason which would also be referred to as the age of salvation if what you believe were true.










God requires faith for healing but when did it have to be the faith of the one healed?

 

[Sophrosyne]

There is only one baptism in the NT Church (Eph 4:5-6). And that one baptism is in water as defined by 1 Pet 3:21 and Eph 5:26 and other passages as requiring water. And it is this water baptism that is the point at which we are saved (washed clean, made spotless, resurrected, united with Christ, etc.) as stated in those passages as well as Col 2:11-14, Rom 6:1-4, Acts 2:38, Acts 22:16, and others. There is no salvation without water baptism. Will God make exceptions for those who do not have access to water? I don’t know. Scripture does not address the possibility. But it does make the case that God desires those who obey His will, do no more or less than commanded, and seek His will over their own at all times.

No, baptism is not required for salvation else people who for some reason cannot get baptized after accepting Christ that act would be negated by simple lack of water. The thief on the cross was saved according to Jesus.