How can anyone justify not believing in capital punishment?

[Faith.Man]

Isn't that because God is perfect and omnipotent He has the right to hate people while humans are sinful and not omnipotent they shouldn't.

Matthew 5:43-48

However I've also heard that "loving your enemies" means in this context your personal enemies like people you argue with or a bully not a mortal enemy like say someone who tried to murder you.

Consider the following: loving your enemies can occasionally be used as aid and comfort to them in deference to your friends. Should we forsake our brothers and sisters in Christ to give aid and comfort to our enemies? How long will we last with that priority?

 

[General Mung Beans]

Consider the following: loving your enemies can occasionally be used as aid and comfort to them in deference to your friends. Should we forsake our brothers and sisters in Christ to give aid and comfort to our enemies? How long will we last with that priority?

I agree with that-certainly it shouldn't be abused and twisted like that.

 

[Faith.Man]

I agree with that-certainly it shouldn't be abused and twisted like that.

I don't mean to argue with you, but some things are just not black and white. God gives us guidelines in His word, but we need to look at the context, background and audience to make sure we understand His intent.

God bless.
Bob (aka Faith.Man)

 

[General Mung Beans]

I don't mean to argue with you, but some things are just not black and white. God gives us guidelines in His word, but we need to look at the context, background and audience to make sure we understand His intent.

God bless.
Bob (aka Faith.Man)

Thank you.

 

[JoJo50]

I was ecstatic when I heard of that inhumane monster, Osama Bin Laden, was killed by U.S. forces-finally!
There is no other punishment suitable for him that death. The same with serial killers and other terrorists and such. How can any reasonable person not agree with punishing people like Osama with death?

i notice you have a picture of a cross,which means you're a christian. so let me ask you this... do you believe,or agree with EVERYTHING Jesus said? i know you as with many feel there was a good reason for killing the man. if i were like many,i could feel that way also. because it was my home ,(manhattan), that was affected by the attacks. and though i was mad,i was more sadden yet didn't wish him death.

remember when Peter, who loved Jesus. sliced off a guard's ear? he thought in his heart, his reason was valid. Jesus let him know, he was wrong,regardless of his loving reason for doing it,(Matt.26:52 Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword).

as i've seen so many times,with people who call themselves christians. don't seem to always agree with the man they claim to worship. WHO ARE HUMANS, to THINK... they can take God's place? Jehovah God's words says "Vengeance is the Lord's" Heb. 10:30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.

Rom.12:19 Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.

many always say, what if it was your love ones. of course i'll be angry, and want him caught. but i KNOW..if i truely believe what Jesus said,and worship his Father as Jesus as done. then i HAVE to learn to feel the love, pity, and forgive those who hurt others. as i would want God to do the same towards me. do you not agree with the prayer Jesus told us to remember?,(Matt. 6:12 And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors).

you asked ,"how can any reasonable person, not agree with punishing people like osama with death" for ANY.. who claim to follow Jesus,and serve his Father Jehovah God, . would know it's NOT about being "reasonable". i DON'T...have to agree with his death,to be seen as reasonable by any imperfect humans. i worry more of How God wants me to be,or act

i didn't like what he did,but it DOESN'T mean i have to like what others do to him as far as putting him to death. punishment, i have no problems with. i don't like to see anyone taking anothers life. be-it they deserve it, or not. any who BELIEVE "Jesus" is for a country, and NOT people period. really needs to learn about him,and his Father. because they're NOT!

as much as many hate this man, he WON'T be in a hellfire as i'm sure many wants to believe. he would be forgiven for what he did, through his death . because once he died ,his sins were forgiven.

(1).Rom.-6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. and Rom.6:7 -For he that is dead is freed from sin.

(2).proves the "soul" IS the living,(Ezek.18:4-the soul that sinneth, it shall die). and (1Cor.15:45 -And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul).

(3).Psalm 146:4 His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish. (so when a person dies, all thoughts are gone. they're NOT IN A FIRERY PLACE, wishing they had done right).

as followers of Jesus,and servants of Jehovah God,(i know many don't serve Jehovah,but i'm making a point), we really need to check ourselves,keeping it real. if we're truely trying to change our old way,( Rom.12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God). holding hatred,and wanting revenge is what we need to change. if we want to get closer to God. peace

 

[Yitzchak]

God choose to not give the death penalty to Cain. Cain was guilty of the first murder recorded in the Bible.

Gen 4:13 And Cain said unto the LORD, My punishment is greater than I can bear.
Gen 4:14 Behold, thou hast driven me out this day from the face of the earth; and from thy face shall I be hid; and I shall be a fugitive and a vagabond in the earth; and it shall come to pass, that every one that findeth me shall slay me.
Gen 4:15 And the LORD said unto him, Therefore whosoever slayeth Cain, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold. And the LORD set a mark upon Cain, lest any finding him should kill him.
Gen 4:16 And Cain went out from the presence of the LORD, and dwelt in the land of Nod, on the east of Eden.

Also David was not put to death for his sin of having Uriah killed. Another murderer that did not get the death penalty.



I am sure there are more examples , but those two came to mind.

 

[General Mung Beans]

God choose to not give the death penalty to Cain. Cain was guilty of the first murder recorded in the Bible.






Also David was not put to death for his sin of having Uriah killed. Another murderer that did not get the death penalty.



I am sure there are more examples , but those two came to mind.

The exceptions prove the rule. God spared Cain and David because He had use for them and out of mercy (and in David's case his son died), not because they didn't deserve to die.

 

[Yitzchak]

The exceptions prove the rule. God spared Cain and David because He had use for them and out of mercy (and in David's case his son died), not because they didn't deserve to die.

I don't see how these examples of mercy prove the rule. The rule stands or falls upon it's own merits. What these examples prove is that there is a time to show mercy.




Another example is Joseph and his brothers. Joseph had it in his power to have them put to death and choose to see God's hand in it. Joseph chose mercy. I think that we as Christians are supposed to choose mercy also.

Rom 12:17 Recompense to no man evil for evil. Provide things honest in the sight of all men.
Rom 12:18 If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men.
Rom 12:19 Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.
Rom 12:20 Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink: for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head.
Rom 12:21 Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good.

Some criminals might decide to be stubborn and waste the extra time given them by letting them die in prison. But it is a mercy that we can show them to give them the chance to repent and receive God's forgiveness.

 

[Yitzchak]

Another example. It is the greatness of the grace shown to me that is the reason why I can show grace to others.

Mat 18:21 Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times?
Mat 18:22 Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven.
Mat 18:23 Therefore is the kingdom of heaven likened unto a certain king, which would take account of his servants.
Mat 18:24 And when he had begun to reckon, one was brought unto him, which owed him ten thousand talents.
Mat 18:25 But forasmuch as he had not to pay, his lord commanded him to be sold, and his wife, and children, and all that he had, and payment to be made.
Mat 18:26 The servant therefore fell down, and worshipped him, saying, Lord, have patience with me, and I will pay thee all.
Mat 18:27 Then the lord of that servant was moved with compassion, and loosed him, and forgave him the debt.
Mat 18:28 But the same servant went out, and found one of his fellowservants, which owed him an hundred pence: and he laid hands on him, and took him by the throat, saying, Pay me that thou owest.
Mat 18:29 And his fellowservant fell down at his feet, and besought him, saying, Have patience with me, and I will pay thee all.
Mat 18:30 And he would not: but went and cast him into prison, till he should pay the debt.
Mat 18:31 So when his fellowservants saw what was done, they were very sorry, and came and told unto their lord all that was done.
Mat 18:32 Then his lord, after that he had called him, said unto him, O thou wicked servant, I forgave thee all that debt, because thou desiredst me:
Mat 18:33 Shouldest not thou also have had compassion on thy fellowservant, even as I had pity on thee?
Mat 18:34 And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him.
Mat 18:35 So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.

 

[Cactus Jack]

Anti death penalty activists don't care about victims rights. You also get brain dead liberal "Christians" saying the death penalty is wrong, despite the Bible's clear support for it

I read that and I started to think. Of how demented some people are.

I am not anti-death penalty, but I doubt I could sentence anyone to death. I know of instances where people that were already executed by the state were later proven innocent. Well, you tell me. If someone is prosecuted of a crime and they get death row, they are executed. They argue over and over they didn't do it, and then a few years later after they were executed, it turns out they didn't do it. Is that man slaughter, murder or....? Can't say "oh la-dee-da! They're in heaven with Jesus, so all is good! Not considering the fact they are dead....? Then doesn't that justify murder? Some gangsta from Detroit can now kill anyone they want, and claim "they're in heaven with Jesus now, so all is good". Doesn't work that way, does it? What's the difference? Because a gangsta isn't the government? Well, in Nazi Germany the government did a lot of really bad things to people. Ok, ok. The nazis murdered a lot of people, But hey, it's ok now! They're in heaven with Jesus, and it's all okey dokey. Right? Right? Uh, something tell me that you don't think it's right either. (yes that was a hyperbole).

Wait until it's your son or daughter that gets death row. Or your husband or wife. They are executed, and it turns out a few years later they were really innocent. Tell me what the feelings are you would experience.

 

[exalius]

I was ecstatic when I heard of that inhumane monster, Osama Bin Laden, was killed by U.S. forces-finally!

And then I think of despicable bleeding heart liberals and their namby pamby fairlyland beliefs of never killing anyone. Could you imagine capturing such a monster as Bin Laden and just letting him live in jail for the rest of his life? There is no other punishment suitable for him that death. The same with serial killers and other terrorists and such.

How can any reasonable person not agree with punishing people like Osama with death?

C H Macintosh (in his book "The Bible: It's Sufficiency and Supremacy") says that "Neither tradition nor expediency will do for the servant of Christ. The all-important inquiry is, 'What saith the Scriptures?'". So, what saith the Scriptures?

Lev. 24:17
Whoever kills any man shall surely be put to death

So, under the Law, it's difficult to not agree with killing murderers. However, hallelujah, we are under Grace and not the Law:

Rom. 6:14
For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace.

What is grace? A person. Who is Grace? Jesus. What did Jesus do when confronted with a similar issue? John 8:1-12 ::

But Jesus went to the Mount of Olives.
Now early in the morning He came again into the temple, and all the people came to Him; and He sat down and taught them. Then the scribes and Pharisees brought to Him a woman caught in adultery. And when they had set her in the midst, they said to Him, “Teacher, this woman was caught in adultery, in the very act. Now Moses, in the law, commanded us that such should be stoned. [Lev 20:10 , Deut. 22:22] But what do You say?” This they said, testing Him, that they might have something of which to accuse Him. But Jesus stooped down and wrote on the ground with His finger, as though He did not hear.
So when they continued asking Him, He raised Himself up and said to them, “He who is without sin among you, let him throw a stone at her first. ”And again He stooped down and wrote on the ground. Then those who heard it, being convicted by their conscience, went out one by one, beginning with the oldest even to the last. And Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst. When Jesus had raised Himself up and saw no one but the woman, He said to her, “Woman, where are those accusers of yours? Has no one condemned you?”
She said, “No one, Lord.”
And Jesus said to her, “Neither do I condemn you; go and sin no more.”
Then Jesus spoke to them again, saying, “I am the light of the world. He who follows Me shall not walk in darkness, but have the light of life.”

Jesus said "He who is without sin among you, let him throw a stone at her first". He was without sin amongst them, so why did He not throw the first stone? And, because He did not, should we?

 

[jlujan69]

Those who use the Bible to support their claims that the death penalty is wrong probably cherry pick the verses or concepts taught. How many realize, however, that the notions of both captial punishment for murder and being spared the death penalty are mentioned together in the story of the first murder in Scripture? Cain realized somebody could try to kill him, perhaps realizing he would have deserved it, but God said he won't have to die. Viola, both concepts taught.

 

[jlujan69]

please delete this

 

[Faith.Man]

White Supremacist Gang Member Executed For Dragging Texas Man | Fox News

Anyone think this guy deserved life in prison and three square meals a day?

 

[exalius]

Did he deserve to die? I'd say no. (Gal. 5v8 : "For though once your hearts were full of darkness, now it is full of light from the Lord, and your behaviour should show it!") So the fundamental question is, is murder (which is the death penalty) of light, or of darkness?

And if you say yes, is that going against what Jesus would say? (Jn. 8v1-12; my previous post).

Did he deserve to go to the namby-pamby, three square meals a day, plasma TV and broadband internet present-day prisons? Of course not! "Spare the rod, spoil the child" (Pr. 13v24). Prisons should be punishment, not reward.

 

[Faith.Man]

Did he deserve to die? I'd say no. (Gal. 5v8 : "For though once your hearts were full of darkness, now it is full of light from the Lord, and your behaviour should show it!") So the fundamental question is, is murder (which is the death penalty) of light, or of darkness?

And if you say yes, is that going against what Jesus would say? (Jn. 8v1-12; my previous post).

Did he deserve to go to the namby-pamby, three square meals a day, plasma TV and broadband internet present-day prisons? Of course not! "Spare the rod, spoil the child" (Pr. 13v24). Prisons should be punishment, not reward.

The death penalty is not murder, it is OT justice. Peter was involved in some NT justice:

Acts 5:1 - But a man named Ananias, with his wife Sapphira, sold a piece of property,
Acts 5:2 - and kept back some of the price for himself, with his wife's full knowledge, and bringing a portion of it, he laid it at the apostles' feet.
Acts 5:3 - But Peter said, "Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit and to keep back some of the price of the land?
Acts 5:4 - "While it remained unsold, did it not remain your own? And after it was sold, was it not under your control? Why is it that you have conceived this deed in your heart? You have not lied to men but to God."
Acts 5:5 - And as he heard these words, Ananias fell down and breathed his last; and great fear came over all who heard of it.
Acts 5:6 - The young men got up and covered him up, and after carrying him out, they buried him.
Acts 5:7 - Now there elapsed an interval of about three hours, and his wife came in, not knowing what had happened.
Acts 5:8 - And Peter responded to her, "Tell me whether you sold the land for such and such a price?" And she said, "Yes, that was the price."
Acts 5:9 - Then Peter said to her, "Why is it that you have agreed together to put the Spirit of the Lord to the test? Behold, the feet of those who have buried your husband are at the door, and they will carry you out as well."
Acts 5:10 - And immediately she fell at his feet and breathed her last, and the young men came in and found her dead, and they carried her out and buried her beside her husband. [NASB]

 

[exalius]

True, good point.

The difference, it seems, between OT and NT justice is that in OT times, it was man who killed man, in NT it was God who killed man. Should we, then, as fallible men kill man; or let the infallible God kill man?

Rom 3v5-8 (NKJV)
"But if our unrighteousness demonstrates the righteousness of God, what shall we say? Is God unjust who inflicts wrath? (I speak as a man.) Certainly not! For then how will God judge the world? For if the truth of God has increased through my lie to His glory, why am I also still judged as a sinner? And why not say, “Let us do evil that good may come”?—as we are slanderously reported and as some affirm that we say. Their condemnation is just."

To me: capital punishment = evil for good = justly condemned

That aside, my question still stands: what would Jesus do?

We are saved by His grace: the weight of my sins is, and should, be a death penalty, but hallelujah of His mercies! We're called to be His ambassadors (2Cor 5v20: "Now then, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were pleading through us: we implore you on Christ’s behalf, be reconciled to God." [NKJV]).
Does capital punishment align with 2Cor 5v20?
Does it show the same grace that we are to try and emulate?
Is killing something something we, as ambassadors, should do?
Or does that make us the next Cain?
Does it allow God to plead through us?
Does is reconcile people to God?

God bless

 

[Faith.Man]

True, good point.

The difference, it seems, between OT and NT justice is that in OT times, it was man who killed man, in NT it was God who killed man. Should we, then, as fallible men kill man; or let the infallible God kill man?

Rom 3v5-8 (NKJV)
"But if our unrighteousness demonstrates the righteousness of God, what shall we say? Is God unjust who inflicts wrath? (I speak as a man.) Certainly not! For then how will God judge the world? For if the truth of God has increased through my lie to His glory, why am I also still judged as a sinner? And why not say, “Let us do evil that good may come”?—as we are slanderously reported and as some affirm that we say. Their condemnation is just."

To me: capital punishment = evil for good = justly condemned

That aside, my question still stands: what would Jesus do?

We are saved by His grace: the weight of my sins is, and should, be a death penalty, but hallelujah of His mercies! We're called to be His ambassadors (2Cor 5v20: "Now then, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were pleading through us: we implore you on Christ’s behalf, be reconciled to God." [NKJV]).
Does capital punishment align with 2Cor 5v20?
Does it show the same grace that we are to try and emulate?
Is killing something something we, as ambassadors, should do?
Or does that make us the next Cain?
Does it allow God to plead through us?
Does is reconcile people to God?

God bless

Hebrews 13:8 - Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever. [NIV]

John 10:36 - do you say of Him, whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, 'You are blaspheming,' because I said, 'I am the Son of God'?
John 10:37 - "If I do not do the works of My Father, do not believe Me;
John 10:38 - but if I do them, though you do not believe Me, believe the works, that you may know and understand that the Father is in Me, and I in the Father." [NASB '77]

The Father and the Son as well as the Holy Spirit are all of one essence, but three persons as I understand the trinity. Jesus did the works of His Father. The works of His Father are recorded in the Old Testament. I feel certain that Jesus did not disagree with the laws His Father gave Moses, and those laws certainly included capital punishment executed by man.

 

[Faith.Man]

Derrick Mason Executed: Alabama Kills Man Who Shot, Killed Store Clerk

I hope he used his time wisely on death row and was truly saved.

 

[Freedom&Light]

I believe in the sanctity of life, all life. I am a big fan of life sentences, of being put in a prison for the rest of his/her natural life and having to work to be productive to society. But I don't agree with capital punishment.