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S: Actually, I am of the "once saved, always saved" persuasion. Which is why I wonder if you truly were a believer how you no longer could be. You're aware of the Bible verses about this particular thing, I'm sure. If not, I would be glad to share.
A: yup I am familiar. I see those verses as a pretty convenient protective mechanism but I understand why you would reference them.
I am going to do some serious editing here to put all of the relevant bits side by side. The question was how is this relationship with God manifested in real life. Your responses were (and again to other readers this is edited of you want to see the items in context please go read S' excellent post in its entirety) and I will put my thoughts in between.
S: How it manifests in my life to have a relationship with the Creator, who is also my Friend and Father? I can't even wrap my mind around Him
not existing. He's everywhere with me.
A: what does that mean, that he is everywhere with you? How is he with you, inn what tangible ways?
S: It's an inner thing for me, personally, more than an outward thing. It's a relationship. And yes, the relationship manifests in my outward life all the time. I don't even know how or why, really. It's hard to explain.
A: it manifests all the time but you don't know how or why?
S: To use your words, my relationship with God is "not reasonably explained by natural means." But also based on the Word of God, which I believe the Bible to be, also for many personal reasons "not reasonably explained by natural means." That is
exactly it.
A: could you explin briefly why you belive that to be the case?
S: Athee, I just thought of how it feels. Have you ever been in love - really, truly, deeply, passionately in love? That is how my relationship with God feels to me, like being in love. Madly in love, I am madly in love with God. Lol.
Ok, now you'll really think I'm crazy, but that's as close an explanation I can think of.
A: Yes I have been and am in love. Been married for 10 years and have a wonderful wife and children. I wonder though if these are really analogous. The people I love passionately are real tangible people. I wonder if what you are describing might more accurately be compared to being passionately committed to an idea (although in your case the idea has a person shaped avatar), it motivates you, it guides you in your thoughts and action, it embolden you, gives you strength, gives you clarity of purpose etc.
What do you think?
Well, I'm flattered you want to know so much about me.
1. The verses I'm thinking of don't have anything to do with any protective mechanisms; perhaps we're thinking of different ones. Doesn't matter, really, other than I'm sincerely concerned for you, or for any believer who says they have fallen away from God.
2. How He is with me? I sense His presence since being saved in a closer and more tangible way, like physical breath, than I did before when I simply believed in God as "the life force." After truly giving my heart to Christ, and sincerely praying the Salvation Prayer, I - in that moment - felt a rush of physical warmth in my heart (chest region, to be literal) and a sense of "opening" or something being "unlocked" within me. Since that moment I have never felt estranged from God. I have felt frustrated, angry, upset with God and I'm sure He with me. But I have never felt truly alone since then. I feel His presence with me always. You know how you can feel your own pulse, or breath? It's like that, but deeper. In my bones, in my cells, how deeply I feel and know Him. It's a gift I asked for and although I am the most unworthy recipient I can think of, He honored my request. My most frequent prayer is "thank you," and I pray fairly constantly.
3. The manifestations in my physical life are too numerous and detailed to explain here. Besides, they wouldn't really mean anything to anyone else except me. My walk with God is my personal walk/relationship with God. When I do something wrong He lets me know. When I cry out He hears and answers me. Or, if He's silent I know it's the time to shut up and be patient. God is patient and God is kind. God is love and God is truth. That's about all I need to know. I trust Him implicitly. I trust Him, as revealed in His Word, more than I trust anything else in my life, including myself. He guides me through life. He literally saved my life. I could be dead. My story is a very long one; suffice to say I came from a sometimes brutal and poverty-stricken background (in more ways than one) and today I live a fulfilling, rich, peaceful, prosperous, happy, healthy life. I know I never deserved anything good more than anyone else, but I asked in faith and He answered. Not that I don't still have problems common to all people, of course I do. But my life is remarkably changed since knowing God on a personal level.
4. The "not reasonably explained by natural means," I'm not sure what you're asking, exactly. Why
I believe things that have happened to me that I can't explain by natural means? Because a few things that have happened to me
have no natural explanation. Simple as that.
5. I love many tangible, flesh and blood people as well. My husband, my children, my family, my friends, etc. However, my love of Jesus is also tangible and just as real to me. He's more than an idea or avatar. But, yes, I love the idea of God as well. Of course I do. I see a deep pattern of intelligence in nature and creation. I've studied a lot of science and quantum physics enough to have witnessed the glory of God on a scientific level. Nature is proof of God. There is an obvious intelligent mind behind the design of absolutely everything. I recently heard the saying, "No God, know chaos. Know God, no chaos," which sums it up nicely to me.
There are many things I don't know and never will until He reveals them. That's ok, I don't need to know everything. I'm fine with not knowing. I know the Bible contains many contradictions. I've asked Him about that, lol.
It's a paradox, faith is a paradox. I'm fascinated by God, never-endingly fascinated. Funny thing is, few people who know me in person (besides my immediate family) would ever guess any of this about me. As I said, I'm far from a "religious" person. I'm quiet, I listen to people a lot instead.
You are a very interesting person, Athee. Thank you for conversing with me, I appreciate it.
I knew a woman, a former co-worker, who, years ago when I was facing a tough time in my life, was very kind, supportive and understanding. She helped me a lot. I mentioned to her one time that I greatly appreciated her loving, Christian gestures towards me, like little heart-warming gifts, cards, that type of thing. (I was going through a divorce and she had also been through one in the past). She immediately made it clear to me that she was NOT a Christian or a believer and that she was, in fact, a staunch atheist. I told her I felt her behavior was more Christian-like than any Christian I'd ever met up until that time. She had a loving heart, and God looks upon the heart. Atheist is just a label, like Christian. God knows the heart of everyone; He doesn't need people to believe that He exists but we certainly do need Him.
Believing in God, actually,
knowing is a better word to me because I have zero doubt now, is a benefit to me and my life. I would not be here if not for God. And this has been the case for decades now for me.
