How can an atheist have a relationship with God?

[Athée]

Hi all,

Deadworm threw down the gauntlet suggesting that I make an earnest effort to re-aquire my belief in God. I'm not sure what he has planned but I would very much like to be convinced so I will put myself in his hands for the journey.

I am not sure to what extent this will be an interactive, all participants welcome kind of thread, however of you feel like you have something to add please feel free to respectfully engage!

Peace,
Athée

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[wayfaring man]

Hi Athee.

Everyone has a relationship with God....some however, are rather 'one sided'.

God is our Creator. We are thereby His offspring. Likened unto a Father which has hopes and aspirations for all his children.

Acts 17:17-34

Titus 2:1-6

2 Peter 3:8-9

 

[Athée]

Hi Athee.

Everyone has a relationship with God....some however, are rather 'one sided'.

God is our Creator. We are thereby His offspring. Likened unto a Father which has hopes and aspirations for all his children.

Acts 17:17-34

Titus 2:1-6

2 Peter 3:8-9

I grant that this makes sense from within Christian theism....I'm just not there though.

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[singpraise]

Hi all,

Deadworm threw down the gauntlet suggesting that I make an earnest effort to re-aquire my belief in God. I'm not sure what he has planned but I would very much like to be convinced so I will put myself in his hands for the journey.

I am not sure to what extent this will be an interactive, all participants welcome kind of thread, however of you feel like you have something to add please feel free to respectfully engage!

Peace,
Athée

Sent from my SM-N910W8 using Tapatalk

If you really want to know God, all you have to do is ask Him to reveal Himself to you. That's what those "Ask and you shall receive, seek and you shall find, knock and the door will be opened unto you," verses are really about. It worked for me.

God came to me (many years ago) because I asked Him if He were REALLY REAL to please reveal the truth to me, because my heart was longing for the truth. I had a lot of knowledge, both scientific and of false religious doctrines, that I had studied for years. However, my relationship with God began through my heart and not solely through my mind. I truly felt His presence, beyond a doubt, when I prayed the Salvation Prayer with sincerity. I received the Holy Spirit and He has never left me since. It was simple and pure and real. I pray the same for you.

I have so many questions for atheists but I will ask only one - how do you explain the unexplainable, when/if it ever happens, in your life?

 

[crossnote]

Hi all,

Deadworm threw down the gauntlet suggesting that I make an earnest effort to re-aquire my belief in God. I'm not sure what he has planned but I would very much like to be convinced so I will put myself in his hands for the journey.

As long as that journey starts and passes through Calvary you are on your way, otherwise it may be 'spiritual' or it may be 'religious' but in the end it will be Life-less.

Romans 3:24-25 KJVS
[24] Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: [25] Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

 

[Athée]

If you really want to know God, all you have to do is ask Him to reveal Himself to you. That's what those "Ask and you shall receive, seek and you shall find, knock and the door will be opened unto you," verses are really about. It worked for me.

God came to me (many years ago) because I asked Him if He were REALLY REAL to please reveal the truth to me, because my heart was longing for the truth. I had a lot of knowledge, both scientific and of false religious doctrines, that I had studied for years. However, my relationship with God began through my heart and not solely through my mind. I truly felt His presence, beyond a doubt, when I prayed the Salvation Prayer with sincerity. I received the Holy Spirit and He has never left me since. It was simple and pure and real. I pray the same for you.

I have so many questions for atheists but I will ask only one - how do you explain the unexplainable, when/if it ever happens, in your life?

I don't know if ibhave ever come across something totally unexplainable. Certainly there are things I don't have the ability to explain but this is a different thing.
Generally speaking though the answer is just ..."I don't know" when there is something I don't understand. When I don't know I try not to jump to making positive statements like "god did it" or something similar.

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[Athée]

As long as that journey starts and passes through Calvary you are on your way, otherwise it may be 'spiritual' or it may be 'religious' but in the end it will be Life-less.

Romans 3:24-25 KJVS
[24] Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: [25] Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

What would a life-less life look like and how is this distinct from a Christian life-full life?

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[Deadworm]

Athee, let me prepare for my discuss of an effective method for a skeptic to find God with these questions: From a Christian perspective, is there such a thing as a truly honest skeptic? If so, then how can they be expected to find God? And if they can't be expected to find God, what chance do they have to fulfill their divine purpose from a biblical perspective? I direct your attention to just 2 of the anti-skeptic biblical texts on this matter:

(1)"The fool has said in his heart, "There is no God" (Psalm 14:1; again in 53:1).
Skeptics and some liberal Christians might dismiss the Psalmist's claim as mistaken.

(2) ""What can be known about God is plain to them; for God has shown it to them. Ever since the creation of the world, His eternal power and divine nature , invisible though they are, have been understood and seen through the things He has made. So they are without excuse (Romans 1:19-20).
Here Paul insists that that skeptics have no legitimate excuse for their skepticism. Paul does not mean that rational arguments can prove God's existence, but rather that if we get in touch with our best innate instincts, we will be able to discern God's existence. This point is properly grasped by St .Augustine in a prayer in his Confession:
“O Lord, Thou hast made us for Thyself, and our heart is restless until it finds its rest in thee.”
Again, skeptics and some liberal Christians will dismiss Paul's claim as mistaken. In future posts I will address these dismissals.

In my step by step discussion I will not deal with the question of judging and condemning specific atheists and agnostics. As even Billy Graham famously said (to the Jewish agnostic Larry King): "I'm not God--and I'll leave the final verdict (to Him on you or any other specific skeptic)."

I will eventually be proposing and tried and tested method for finding God. But first let me acknowledge that God often stalks the skeptic, uninvited! For example, consider a key moment in the conversion process of reluctant eminent atheist scholar, C. S. Lewis:

"You must picture me alone in that room at Magdalen (an Oxford College), night after night, feeling, whenever my mind lifted even for a second from my work, the steady, unrelenting approach of Him whom I so earnestly desired not to meet. That which I greatly feared had at last come upon me. In the Trinity Term of 1929 I gave in, and admitted that God was God, and knelt and prayed: perhaps, that night, the most dejected and reluctant convert in all England" (Surprised By Joy,ch. 14, p. 266).

This climactic moment had been preceded by uncharacteristic new images that haunted his imagination. For example, while riding a bus, Lewis would suddenly be fantasizing about a lobster's outer armor and this question would be vaguely posed to his imagination: "Are you willing to unbuckle.?" Then the prelude to his conversion came when he was driven to Whipsnade Zoo, Lewis marvels that when he got into the car, he didn't believe that Jesus was the Son of God, but when they arrived at the zoo, he did! Yet he hadn't been thinking about the God or Jesus question en route. The conversion process from atheist to Christian was essentially achieved through unwanted unconscious processes. So when a believer like me assures an honest seeker to be open to "spiritual experiences," this expression needs to be understood broadly as part of a spiritual process that might only be recognized in retrospect.

 

[~Anastasia~]

If someone asked me what to do in a situation like that ...

I would probably suggest asking God to reveal Himself, and sitting down in silence, waiting and expecting.

I'm not sure what your background might be, but if you have a tendency for images to come up in your mind and distract you, an icon is good to look at. You might want to have the Scriptures handy, preferably something you can search if a particular word or phrase comes up in your mind. Above all, really surrender.

Rather than taking that and running with it too far, if it's successful, I would also urge caution, because such an approach can also open the door to deception. But it can be a good start. Some people find nature, forests, seashore, or mountains to be a good and quiet retreat, but it's not essential. But do turn off the tv.

Or if you are one that is inspired by reverence, and the holy, visiting a church service can be good. A liturgical service is best for some people. Other kinds of services draw the attention in too many directions and are not good places for that kind of contemplation.

Guidance for what happens is good to seek though.

 

[singpraise]

I don't know if ibhave ever come across something totally unexplainable. Certainly there are things I don't have the ability to explain but this is a different thing.
Generally speaking though the answer is just ..."I don't know" when there is something I don't understand. When I don't know I try not to jump to making positive statements like "god did it" or something similar.

Sent from my SM-N910W8 using Tapatalk

Here's the thing. If you really want to know God you can. If you choose not to know Him He will not force you. I was like you at one time in my life. I was highly educated, had studied every religion and belief system I could find, was a skeptic even though having been raised in the Catholic Church. But I always wanted to know the truth in life. That was my start of faith. If God wasn't real and true then I wanted no part of him.

But I couldn't deny my own limitations and the limitations I saw and felt in all my studies. So, one day I prayed and asked God, the One True God, through His Son Jesus Christ, who was born of a Virgin, who walked on the earth, who died on the Cross for my sin, and Who rose from the dead to please come into my heart. And He did. I have had no doubts, ever, since that moment. I can't explain it very well, but I deeply wanted to know God (if and only if He were real and true); I had the desire to know Him. It was really an all-consuming passion for me (still is all these years later). He honored my prayer. Simple as that.

Of course I studied the Bible and of course I spoke with many wise Christian counselors/pastors after that time. But my experience of becoming born again in the Spirit was very private and personal and involved only me. It was when I truly came to know God as a Person.

I hope you find what (who) you are looking for. My prayers are with you. Don't get too caught up in your head and don't allow all of your knowledge to be a stumbling block to a precious, childlike faith. Faith that saves. God bless.

 

[quatona]

For example, consider a key moment in the conversion process of reluctant eminent atheist scholar, C. S. Lewis:

"You must picture me alone in that room at Magdalen (an Oxford College), night after night, feeling, whenever my mind lifted even for a second from my work, the steady, unrelenting approach of Him whom I so earnestly desired not to meet. That which I greatly feared had at last come upon me. In the Trinity Term of 1929 I gave in, and admitted that God was God, and knelt and prayed: perhaps, that night, the most dejected and reluctant convert in all England" (Surprised By Joy,ch. 14, p. 266).

In his conversion stories Lewis doesn´t come across as a former atheist, he comes across as a former believer, yet an anti-theist or misantheist one.

 

[crossnote]

What would a life-less life look like and how is this distinct from a Christian life-full life?

When one believes the Gospel, one receives the new birth and the sealing and entrance of the Holy Spirit. He guides us in His Word as He continues to open up our understanding, fills us with hope and His love for God and others.
Ultimately the distinction is an eternity spent in heaven with Life or hell apart from Life.

 

[Noscentia]

The basis for my own search was a combination of several simple factors. The first is that I, being limitlessly curious about the truth of things, genuinely cared about whether or not God was real. For most of my life I dismissed the idea of God as a logical impossibility and was more than aware of the multitude of arguments which explained why that was most likely the truth, but admittedly I can't deny that there is no reason that things outside of logic may exist. Actually, I had to start by admitting that everything I understand about reality is based on faith (something which I understood implicitly and I'm sure you do too, but I rarely spent much time thinking about it). We must assume to begin with that there is objective truth out there and that we, as humans, are capable of comprehending it.

With that in mind, it becomes a bit easier to accept 'impossible' things.

Secondly, I still believed that even outside of a logical system, you could still test the hypothesis the same way you would in any scientific setting. Or I hoped so anyway since I didn't have much else to work with. You can't prove God logically, not completely anyhow, as He is described as being a personal God and His attributes exist outside of the natural. However, Christianity does work within a well-defined system. From what I've read and been told (and I see has been mentioned many times in this thread), you can interact with God by coming to him with a sincere and open heart and genuinely asking for his presence in your life.

That is what I've been attempting. I certainly would like to know God if He exists, so I've attempted to make changes in my life that I think would reflect a biblical lifestyle (not terribly difficult since my morality skews in that direction already). Reading CS Lewis' Mere Christianity is a good, short read for some basics on what a Christian life, internal and external, might look like. He also encourages this sort of roleplaying as a good means to coming into genuine faith. From there I've started including God/Jesus in my thoughts and prayers and asking for assistance in everyday things. I'd be lying if I said I've felt nothing since all this began.

There's something there, and it's actually terrifying in a way (not in a fear of Hell kind of way, that concept is almost never at the forefront of my thinking). I don't have any good explanations for things yet since I've only just started, but I've had a bit of help. My wife has been very supportive since she recently re-converted and attending a liturgical mass has proved a welcome, nostalgic experience having been raised Catholic. We're currently still church/denomination shopping and I expect more/better results once I start attendance on the regular.

Best of luck to you.

 

[Athée]

When one believes the Gospel, one receives the new birth and the sealing and entrance of the Holy Spirit. He guides us in His Word as He continues to open up our understanding, fills us with hope and His love for God and others.
Ultimately the distinction is an eternity spent in heaven with Life or hell apart from Life.

Hmm...I don't see how that helps us distinguish things this side of death.

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[BeStill&Know]

If I may add to everyone's excellent replies: knowing God if He reveals Himself to you is Humbling very Humbling. Are you willing (have a heart )to be drastically humbled? This may have been the reason you departed from the faith. It is not what you want, what you think or what you feel.
Instead the Walk is what God wants, what God thinks and what God feels.

 

[Athée]

Athee, let me prepare for my discuss of an effective method for a skeptic to find God with these questions: From a Christian perspective, is there such a thing as a truly honest skeptic? If so, then how can they be expected to find God? And if they can't be expected to find God, what chance do they have to fulfill their divine purpose from a biblical perspective? I direct your attention to just 2 of the anti-skeptic biblical texts on this matter:

(1)"The fool has said in his heart, "There is no God" (Psalm 14:1; again in 53:1).
Skeptics and some liberal Christians might dismiss the Psalmist's claim as mistaken.

(2) ""What can be known about God is plain to them; for God has shown it to them. Ever since the creation of the world, His eternal power and divine nature , invisible though they are, have been understood and seen through the things He has made. So they are without excuse (Romans 1:19-20).
Here Paul insists that that skeptics have no legitimate excuse for their skepticism. Paul does not mean that rational arguments can prove God's existence, but rather that if we get in touch with our best innate instincts, we will be able to discern God's existence. This point is properly grasped by St .Augustine in a prayer in his Confession:
“O Lord, Thou hast made us for Thyself, and our heart is restless until it finds its rest in thee.”
Again, skeptics and some liberal Christians will dismiss Paul's claim as mistaken. In future posts I will address these dismissals.

In my step by step discussion I will not deal with the question of judging and condemning specific atheists and agnostics. As even Billy Graham famously said (to the Jewish agnostic Larry King): "I'm not God--and I'll leave the final verdict (to Him on you or any other specific skeptic)."

I will eventually be proposing and tried and tested method for finding God. But first let me acknowledge that God often stalks the skeptic, uninvited! For example, consider a key moment in the conversion process of reluctant eminent atheist scholar, C. S. Lewis:

"You must picture me alone in that room at Magdalen (an Oxford College), night after night, feeling, whenever my mind lifted even for a second from my work, the steady, unrelenting approach of Him whom I so earnestly desired not to meet. That which I greatly feared had at last come upon me. In the Trinity Term of 1929 I gave in, and admitted that God was God, and knelt and prayed: perhaps, that night, the most dejected and reluctant convert in all England" (Surprised By Joy,ch. 14, p. 266).

This climactic moment had been preceded by uncharacteristic new images that haunted his imagination. For example, while riding a bus, Lewis would suddenly be fantasizing about a lobster's outer armor and this question would be vaguely posed to his imagination: "Are you willing to unbuckle.?" Then the prelude to his conversion came when he was driven to Whipsnade Zoo, Lewis marvels that when he got into the car, he didn't believe that Jesus was the Son of God, but when they arrived at the zoo, he did! Yet he hadn't been thinking about the God or Jesus question en route. The conversion process from atheist to Christian was essentially achieved through unwanted unconscious processes. So when a believer like me assures an honest seeker to be open to "spiritual experiences," this expression needs to be understood broadly as part of a spiritual process that might only be recognized in retrospect.

Seems like an interesting beginning although off the bat I am not convinced by either verse you cited
The first doesn't seem to apply unless you also belive that I am not capable of doing anything good at all (why does nobody ever cite the whole verse?). As for the latter there are few verses in the bible that suggest that not everyone knows god so it is internally inconsistent.
That said I will follow where you lead good sir

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[crossnote]

Hmm...I don't see how that helps us distinguish things this side of death.

...'He guides us in His Word as He continues to open up our understanding,' otherwise...

Now we have received not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might understand the things freely given us by God. And we impart this in words not taught by human wisdom but taught by the Spirit, interpreting spiritual truths to those who are spiritual. The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned. (1Co 2:12-14)

But like I said one must come to the cross as a sinner before the next step, otherwise it all sounds foolish.

 

[smithed64]

Hi all,

Deadworm threw down the gauntlet suggesting that I make an earnest effort to re-aquire my belief in God. I'm not sure what he has planned but I would very much like to be convinced so I will put myself in his hands for the journey.

I am not sure to what extent this will be an interactive, all participants welcome kind of thread, however of you feel like you have something to add please feel free to respectfully engage!

Peace,
Athée

Sent from my SM-N910W8 using Tapatalk

Athee,

First, If I may ask, why did you quit believing in God in the first place?
I ask this because you say, "re-acquired" your belief. That, to me, means you once believed, but you quit doing so.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Hi all,

Deadworm threw down the gauntlet suggesting that I make an earnest effort to re-aquire my belief in God. I'm not sure what he has planned but I would very much like to be convinced so I will put myself in his hands for the journey.

I am not sure to what extent this will be an interactive, all participants welcome kind of thread, however of you feel like you have something to add please feel free to respectfully engage!

Peace,
Athée

Athée,

I'm thinking about "how an atheist can attempt a relationship with God?" And I'm thinking that it is indeed a tough question, especially as it reflects some of the meaning in the byline near my avatar (which is why I wrote that byline) ... And don't let the byline throw you; it's not meant to advocate relativism, even though that is how many will probably interpret it. Rather, it is meant to be an Axiom among axioms, even an anti-axiom of sorts, which is culled from my understanding of the various, scattered, unsystematic Epistemological Indices of the Bible, indices which don't comport with today's Epistemological ruts.

So, if I'm right, then your "earnest effort" will be, to some extent, contingent ...

Peace,
2PhiloVoid

 

[Deadworm]

Athee, you are right that the primary reference in Psalm 14:1 is to immoral people and I didn't mean to apply the context of the verse to you specifically. But the verse does have a secondary application to any one who dogmatically tells himself that there is no God. The context (14:2) addresses those who don't understand why they should believe God exists and those who don't consider it obligatory to " seek God." Similarly, though Romans 1-2 addresses atheists who are also immoral in many ways, it also makes the claim that God can be "seen" in His creation, thus making the skeptic without excuse.

No claim is made that God's existence can be demonstrated through rational arguments. What I now need to demonstrate is that NT faith should be based on a life-changing experience of the Holy Spirit that makes the decisive difference. But first I need to lay an additional foundation for this claim.

Arguments for God's existence are only as good as their underlying assumptions and these assumptions derive from our life experience. With no experience of the supernatural or the paranormal, the skeptic naturally relies on materialistic assumptions. Such was the case with atheist Oxford professor, C. S. Lewis. But as God gradually "stalked" him until he was converted, his basic assumptions were altered to fit his new experience.

I don't believe you are capable of simply changing your assumptions; rather, these can only be changed by expanding your horizons and facilitating self-authenticating mystical experience of the divine. To help you get there, I need to do 3 things:

(1) Demonstrate that the NT vision of faith is anchored to self-authenticating experience of the Holy Spirit.
(2) Demonstrate that NT miracles, especially the Resurrection can be traced to eyewitness testimony.
(3) Provide recent personal testimonies of how the same God works miracles today.

I won't expect you simply to accept (2)-(3) as decisive arguments. I only hope that (2)-(3) will inspire you to question your unconscious assumptions enough to open your heart to compelling experience from the Holy Spirit. 3 of my future posts will address (1)-(3) each in turn. Then, after we discuss those points, I will detail the biblically based method for finding God that works very well after suitable mental preparation.